overpaid role but has the authority to f back - middle office guys. what up

Accepted contract and you do not know what you do?

Joke.

Nothing is up. So down
Back office is back office

Work Life Balance
 

I wanna know how long does a compliance officer work.
The job scope.
i was hoping for work life balance and idk if this is a good job.

Wow. 5k plus, after cpf and tax he makes 4k plus a little? Almost the same wage as me, a dumb loser hippie who can't even speak english as well as a geo 2 moe nus grad talent. I thought everyone here is raking in at least 10k a month. I thought Kelly Services' salaries report must be written and reaearched by a private deg grad like myself since all their figures are wrong.

kelly services this kind of mass telesales co. is perfect for bums like u

I'm doing regulatory advisory work. I find the job to be super boring... but everyone tells me that this is a good job and if i continue this route i have a good chance of joining a prestigious bank/financial institution in the compliance team. i want to switch to other jobs/industries because i find it really boring and dry. shld i force myself to stay longer? any thoughts?

Dear All,

I am a SIM-UOL Grad in KYC.

Bank 1 (Local Bank)
First Contract Job (6 Months) $1900 KYC for FI

Bank 2 (European Bank)
Second Contract Job (3 Months) $2500 in Compliance Dept doing HR related Compliance

Bank 3 (Japanese Bank)
Third Contract Job (9 Months) $2600 doing KYC for FI & Corporates
Current Perm Job from Third Contract Job Converted to perm drawing $3000 doing KYC for Corporate hitting 1 year soon.

Please kindly advice where should I go from here?
Try to join Compliance Dept?
How much pay should I ask for when I reach 3 years of experience?

Thank you.

AML Tech Manager
 

I seek some help from the experts over here.

My background:
I'm a Technology Project Manager for the whole suit of AML applications of a US bank and I have the exposure to AML business for the past 3 years. I have a total 9 years experience as a developer, support analyst, project lead and project manager but all these years I'm in the compliance world only.

Now I'm exploring my options to switch to AML business and would like to know what my entry level would be, considering the 3 years of AML exposure and 9 years of Compliance exposure.

Any response to my post would be greatly appreciated!

Compliance
 

Hi guys, I was just offered a role in compliance but it's not a bank. Rather it's in the remittance industry. So i was wondering if the experience gained is applicable to the banking industry or not. And if it would help me gain a compliance role in banks in the future? I'm a fresh grad from sim.

you are not a grad.

sim is not a uni. pls refrain from branding yourself as a grad.

you are more likely a diploma holder who did some courses - which is not a degree programme.

What a cunt!
 

Who are you to tell people if they are a grad or not. A degree is a degree. Im SMU grad, honestly i dont see how it makes me any different from SIM grad. We all are equally capable of working, and i dont which ever degree you are from, prepares you for compliance.

Stop being a dick, let me tell you something, with your attitude, you will not succeed as much as youre suppose to.

thumbs up sia.

SIM = SMU standards!!!

Haha good one.

can anyone share what is the career prospect starting as a junior compliance consultant in a small consultancy firm? recently just went for interview, the jobscope ranges from a-z, can learn a lot of things from a small firm for sure. but will there be difficulty in career progression in future to a more established firm? i currently in a non-relevant field, established mnc. If i were to move from mnc to small firm, will there be difficulty to move back mnc next time?

appreciate your sharing of views with me :)

Thank you!

ICA or ACAMS?
 

Hi All,

I graduated in 2010 from a UK University with a 2.1 in Accounting & Financial Management & Business Management.

I have worked in financial complaint handling and research roles over the last 4 years but want to make the move into KYC/AML. (I feel there may be transferable skills if I was to enter a KYC role)

I am trying to decide whether to try and obtain a qualification with either ICA or ACAMS.

Can someone please tell me which qualification is preferred by employers in Singapore (and around the world) if any? Also, can you please let me know how helpful having the qualification would be during the hiring process?

Thanks in advance!

ICA should be a better choice in Singapore by local banks, they are accredited by IBF. ACAMS are more preferred by foreign banks (US?)

I would vote for ICA

I have been doing compliance for 8 years and AML for 5 years. Currently, I am a SVP with one of the major banks. Here are my thoughts:
- There has been a surge in demand for AML in the recent years. Majority of the demand is at much more junior level, i.e manager, associate level in the space of KYC or transaction monitoring or compliance technology.
- If you do a simple maths, every 20-30 manager/associates, only 1 will eventually become a AVP within 2-3 years time. Every 10 - 12 AVPs, only 1 will eventually become a VP within 2-3 years. If you keep doing the maths, you would be able to assess the probability of one becoming a SVP, Director and MDs.
- Even if you have the job title, there are not many banks who are paying the amount that many have quoted. I am not saying that the pay do not exist because in reality, they do, but majority of the mid-sized and smaller player are not paying that kind of money. Very very few major banks are paying that kind of money. Anyone can count how many major banks maintain a huge AML or Compliance team.
- Like all organizations, there is only X number of AVPs, VPs, SVPs, Directors and MDs. Even with high demands in AML, the really huge paycheck that you are looking are really at the top levels (SVPs, Directors and MDs). The number of Directors and MDs earning between SGD$600K to SGD$1million a year do exist, but when you compare the percentage of people earning that pay, against the total number of people who are actually doing AML or Compliance, is probably less than 1%. You may have dreams about earning that amount of money but you have to be realistic if you are really the top 1%? Additionally, the reasons why the MDs are earning this kind of pay, is because there is huge liability towards the job. More regulators are expecting Chief Compliance Officer to take responsibilities and this increased risks, comes with the increased pay.
- The cost of compliance is rising in most banks. The bigger banks are looking to move many compliance functions to lower cost countries, i.e. Philippines, Malaysia and India. These includes the more junior roles from manager, associates, AVPs & even VPs. These are the same banks who are paying the highest pay for the SVPs, Directors and MDs. Hence, if you are somewhere between these levels, there would eventually be a gap whereby it is not going to be so easy to move to a SVP, Director or even a MD level. With so many jobs moving out of Singapore, and you may be stuck at a more junior or mid level position for a while.
- Future career prospects is like playing chess. You cannot just think of the next move, but you have to think of the move after next, as well. Initial job hoping might gives you the pay increase that you want, but no organization is going to promote a job hopper. At some point, you would need to stay in an organization and contribute before you can be considered for promotion. Fewer organizations are willing to offer a higher rank when people change jobs. Any organizations who are willing to do so, usually have some problems that needs to be fixed. If there are some serious problems to be fixed, would someone who have been job hopping have enough experiences to cope with these problems?

I am not saying that AML is a good or bad area to enter, but you have to think beyond the dollars and cents, and think about the future career prospects, and assess if it is what you want.

AVP/VP are standard titles that most people will get once they stay long enough in the industry. I don't think these levels are even considered managerial in mega mncs, pay is maybe average or above average, not that fantastic. SVP is a bit better and the # of positions are lesser. Other than sales, the big $$$ that most people fantasize about really only comes in at the ED / MD & above levels which vast majority of the employees in banking industry will never smell in their lives.

Base on my recruitment experience so far if you compare international banks and big pharma like GSK, Norvatis, Pfizer, Roche etc. I would say the equivalent for BO/MO is roughly:

AVP - Assistant Manager / Analyst
VP - Local Manager / Senior Analyst
SVP - Regional Manager
MD - Regional Director

The only difference in banking is they tend to create a lot of sub levels like VP1, VP2, VP3 etc. which is more or less the same thing and for recognition of experience or years of service.

It used to be that once you reach MD in a bank you are considered to have "make it", but nowadays many banks have inflated their titles so badly that a bank can literally have a few hundred to a few thousand MDs which means many entry level MDs are not strictly MD either in terms of pay or rank.

What is your definition of "Make It"? All MDs in the bank (international bank) earns at least $500K (for someone from Ops) and up to $3million (for the CEO). $500K will place you at the top 5% revenue earner in Singapore.

In the past yes, but now because of title inflation a lot of jr MD make <$500k. CEO usually is >$3million though now there are many CEO earning less because of title inflation. Many heads of small bank subsidiary are also called CEO now.

Mid Career Switch into Compliance
 

Hi all,

I have been in operations in a foreign private bank for the past 6-7 years and finally have a shot at promotion to the AVP/VP level (although no guarantee).

However I was recently asked by my compliance officer if I would like to switch roles and join them. Unfortunately, they can only take me in with my current rank as I do not have any experience in compliance.

My current function within ops is in the midst of some reorg and will consolidate and merge with other functions over the next 1-2 years. With all the negative news about banks cutting jobs in operations/offshoring etc (e.g scb), I am skeptical that even if I get promoted, the long term career prospects don't seem good compared to compliance. I currently see many compliance/regulatory/risk roles available in many banks and think moving into compliance will be good for my long term career prospects.

However, I am in a dilemma if it would be stupid to give up a promotion in ops just to move into compliance. Any thoughts?

You don't mind me being blunt here, but were you somehow underperforming or offended some higher ups in your bank? It is quite unusual for someone to work in a foreign bank after 7 years and still only "have a shot" at being AVP.

What exactly do you mean by "have a shot"? Has the boss or HR informed you formally that you will be promoted to AVP soon? To me in the banking industry it's all smoke & mirrors - either you get an official letter informing you of your promotion or you are not promoted. Having a shot count for nuts. There are countless people told every year they are being reviewed for promotion/transfer to FO which in the end nothing happen.

My advise is you make decision as if there is no promotion and just compare your current job and the new job as if they are the same rank.

Hi,
No worries. No, I was not underperforming. In fact I had managed and delivered a system migration successfully and had excellent performance for my appraisal. But I was in a big settlement team and reporting to someone with the same rank as me. Plus I was not "visable" with senior management and not favored by my function head to be promoted. FYI my bank does not have AVP rank but starts from non officer, authorized officer then associate director. I'm currently at the AO rank.

I moved out of the settlements team after 6 years into a client servicing role. Hence I had to wait another 1 year plus for my new function head to put me up for promotion to AD. This time round, things look more positive and thus I'm in a dilemma if I get promoted, should I give it up to move into compliance?

I intend to sign up for ICA diploma in compliance or AML after i'm done with my part time degree in BA since i feel that it is quite hard for me to get a job and anyone can easily overtake my place. Anyone can advice which compliance or AML better? what are the difference? Thanks in advance :)

I'm never a fan of operations, largely because I am lazy and don't like long hours. I think it happens a lot in operations. For AML, there are a lot of aspects that are moving towards operational as well, at least in my opinion. Only a few large banks have specific teams performing specific roles, like transaction monitoring, name screening, etc.

If the role with compliance/AML allows you to be exposed to different aspects and not be limited to an operational side of it, it might be a better option than staying in operations. Many banks are moving operational functions to low cost centers and retaining only a small team locally.

You have to evaluate the possibility of that happening to your team, and the other options available. You should also work out how many people are in the compliance/AML team, and how many are at the same level as you. This will help you evaluate your career path as well.

Having said that, don't assume that you will automatically move to be a AVP/VP or Associate Director after 2 years doing compliance or AML, or you would be able to get that position in another bank.

After reading all the replies, its kinda demoralizing after knowing that most of the guests here are uni grads/fresh uni grads and earning a decent amount of income from AML/Compliance job.

I am a 27 years old fresh local diploma grads currently ending my 8 months contractual AML role in a local bank drawing 2.1, how far would I go to in terms of dollar and cent? Would I be able to command a higher income gradually to be on par with uni grads within 2.5 years (like a 10% increment) along the way with broad base experience?

I would classify 2.1k job as general administration that just happens to be in an AML/Compliance department. I seriously doubt you are in a "AML/Compliance" job per se.

By banking standards you are considered very old at 27 with only a junior officer or clerical rank (somemore only a short term contractor), it is almost impossible to compete in the AM/Compliance space with those 22-25 year old students with a nice honors from local universities just based on work performance.

Try to play a bit of politics and network to get some senior guy to be your godfather so that he/she can sponsor your career growth. Otherwise all you are going to get is perpetual contract renewal with little or no pay increase.

Yes im very old as i came from ite then ns.

I wish to clarify with you that doing screening of names, suspicious transaction review, cdd etc are considered as general administation role? I guess its more of an ops role bah. I was offered perm role and still deciding if i should accept or not as i wish to learn more.

Operations/Transactions/Administration whatever, not interested in debates on names, but yes I can confirm 100% tell you that your level is not what people in the industry would consider AML/Compliance professional.

Like I say it depends on what you want to learn and where you want your career to go. If you are thinking of moving on to real AML/Compliance roles then the chances are quite slim as a lot of good local uni grads and also mid career professionals with experience in law, internal audit, other banking BO are competing in this space.

Your only real avenue to move into this space is to find a powerful godfather (best is MD or at least SVP) who can make things happen, whether its AML/Compliance is not really that important. Otherwise your kind of profile at least on paper just cannot compete in this area. Don't forget there are many good performing diploma holders who are younger, in the industry longer who are also trying to move up the ladder.

You started off with a weak hand, so you will need something more to boost that career to catch up. Otherwise prospects and progression will always be lower than even your diploma peers, not to mention compared to the deg grads.

They offer you permanent just take it first, but that alone won't lead to much. You need to build up your network and connections fast if you want to get off this "non-executive" track.

ok, really appreciate your harsh but real true words.

thanks a lot!

Your role sounds more compliance operations as compared to the compliance professional advisory type of role. There are a number of banks who "outsource" such "operational" roles to their operations function and are not considered as a compliance professional.

However the current role is a good starting point and you may even wish to consider taking certification in compliance (ICA) and in the future there may be opportunities for internal transfer to do the real compliance advisory roles.

Sometimes I think people ought to broaden their perspectives and not just blindly follow the herd. Just because compliance in banking is the in thing, every Tom Dict & Harry also rushing to any job as long as its in a bank and has the word "compliance" without thinking properly.

Unless the ITE guy is really that interested in compliance (doubtful since its just his first job in ops/shared services), there are much better and easier ways to get career & pay progression than banging head against the wall like this.

Not saying no chance at all, but really this is just putting yourself in the worst possible competitive situation to move forward. It is much easier to progress in some other jobs in other industries than pick some hot fashionable job where you have to fight against so many people who start off better than you in terms of age and education.

I think you should not beat yourself up too much. I started as a poly grad and went on to take my degree after I started working in Compliance (10 years ago). I know another girl who is at SVP level, and is still a poly graduate (she's probably 35 now?). She is probably earning $200K to 250K which is pretty good for a 35 years old. It is a combination of being at the right place, right time, with the right projects, combined with capability.

At the same time, I know uni grads, masters holders and even PHD who cannot cope in the compliance environment. Everyone is different and its important to consider your strength, and be willing to raise your hand for challenges. Many people seems to assume that moving into Compliance will guarantee a good pay and promotion. That is not true. It might give you a mildly better pay but without the right attitude and capability, you won't go beyond a VP.

Another of these "mysterious friends" circulating on the net. Which bank is that?

I would be very interested to know a diploma grad who can reach SVP level in Compliance before 35. I'm also doing Compliance in a foreign bank and I know of only 3 high flyers who reached SVP level doing Compliance by that age and they are certainly not diploma grads.

I would say I am fairly acquainted with most people doing Compliance in the Singapore banking industry, so I'm quite surprised of never hearing of someone of such extraordinary background before.

Need some advice from experts here. I'm in my early 40s and used to work in corporate banking. Left banking industry 2 years plus ago and move into a different industry. Now I'm thinking of switching into banking compliance and plans to pursue ICA Advanced cert in risk and compliance to improve my chances of getting a job. Do you think this is a good idea and what are my chances of getting a job in compliance?

u sound like another local uni grad jealous that someone from poly do better than u.

i know of many ppl from poly & pte uni who are high flers can reach svp very young in foreign banks. in the real world performance is more impt than exam smart, no need to get angry just becauz others can do better.

Chances are very low for a 40+ guy to take ICA cert to get back into the system. Too many youngsters nowadays and banking industry also not doing very well, so not many new openings also.

I think you are clearly from a smaller bank who is trying to know everyone in the industry by attending all industry events. In a larger organization (and at this point it should be crystal clear which organization it is if you are really familiar with the industry), compliance and AML are separate teams. Within AML alone, there's a lot of different levels of specialization. Additionally, there's only so many major banks that have SVP levels.

Additionally, not every SVPs manages a big team. In many departments, there are talkers and there are do-ers. I don't think many people know this girl is only a Poly graduate because nobody ever thought it's relevant. She keeps a low profile and rarely appear in industry events. Obviously, she don't go around telling the world she's a polytechnic graduate too. Bear in mind, given she's a Poly graduate, she has been working for almost 15 years so a SVP is not shocking if you have been a good performer who is at the right place and right time. Common sense will tell you if it's plausible.