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  #1011 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 11:40 AM
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Even if the people have good attitude and willing to learn. How fast can you progress him/her with such a top heavy management? Most probably also about the same time as his/her peers. Or even slower than scholars. What's the point then?

Btw attitude and willingness to learn won't get your far in ST. You need your boss to like you and big boss to give you opportunities. I've seen too many good engineers not getting their promotion and credits they deserve whereas engineers doing non technical stuffs like events planning, minutes taking during management meeting, airshows and other CCAs getting promoted much faster. These are opportunities not given to all engineers, only engineers with special privilege will be involved. Often not engineering related. Resulting in those promoted engineers lacking in engineering knowledge / experiences.

What's the message the company is driving across? Technical skills not important, bootlick, event planning and other adhoc activities are more important.
Correct. There were very hardworking, experienced and selfless technical engineers left because their supervisors tried to recommend them for promotions multiple times but failed. The big bosses also only promote mostly those who don't do technical work and coincidentally, these are his favourite or those under their favourite engineers.

Their assessing criteria is also weird. The big bosses have no technical knowledge yet they can determine who has put in effort and who had not. Unfortunately, everyone can see that he promoted his favourite who kept screwing things up and pushed all the blames to the development teams.

Another thing that I cannot understand is that all the engineers are lumped together for assessment and recommendation for promotion. Project engineers, hardware engineers, software engineers, QA engineers all do different things, different skillsets and different responsibilities. How do they even determine whether a project engineer have put in more efforts than the hardware engineer?

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  #1012 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 03:27 PM
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lolll, where tf you get the data from that CS fresh grads' avg starting pay is 5k? loll
GES 2019, NUS CS median is 5k. even 25th percentile is 4.2k. Probably still higher than some of the ST "seniors"?

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  #1013 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 03:38 PM
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Well, no matter what, if you are still an engineer inside, won't you appreciate better if your HR gives you a peer that is more fitting to the role and will more likely to share your burden than giving you someone where you potentially have to spoon-feed him for quite a good period of time.

I understand that career progression is much harder now, where you must have what it takes to proof your worth instead of what happened in the past where people could just get promote after servicing X years in a certain role.
End of the day, I've seen someone jumping 2 employment grades within 3 years since joining...
No, you don't understand. Why does the younger generations have to be punish for mistakes the older generations made?

Mistakes made by older generations
- Massive promotions in the past
- Promoted incapable engineers who become "leaders" (due to job grade) today

Punishment for younger generations
- No/harder promotions due to top heavy structure
- Being lead or ordered by incapable leaders

With no/harder promotion and only living with a miserable yearly increment of X%, how can the younger generations start a family given the rise in cost of living, HDB, Transport etc. Sometimes these increment cannot even fight the yearly inflation of Singapore.

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  #1014 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 04:17 PM
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No, you don't understand. Why does the younger generations have to be punish for mistakes the older generations made?

Mistakes made by older generations
- Massive promotions in the past
- Promoted incapable engineers who become "leaders" (due to job grade) today

Punishment for younger generations
- No/harder promotions due to top heavy structure
- Being lead or ordered by incapable leaders

With no/harder promotion and only living with a miserable yearly increment of X%, how can the younger generations start a family given the rise in cost of living, HDB, Transport etc. Sometimes these increment cannot even fight the yearly inflation of Singapore.
Acute observation. That's why over last few years turn over rate for some divisions very high and nothing is done. At this rate, the divisions will be in trouble once the old timers retire in the next 10 - 15 years.
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  #1015 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 06:48 PM
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No, you don't understand. Why does the younger generations have to be punish for mistakes the older generations made?

Mistakes made by older generations
- Massive promotions in the past
- Promoted incapable engineers who become "leaders" (due to job grade) today

Punishment for younger generations
- No/harder promotions due to top heavy structure
- Being lead or ordered by incapable leaders

With no/harder promotion and only living with a miserable yearly increment of X%, how can the younger generations start a family given the rise in cost of living, HDB, Transport etc. Sometimes these increment cannot even fight the yearly inflation of Singapore.

that's life dude... nobody owe who a living
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  #1016 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 08:15 PM
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What I never understand is why the seniors keep complaining and do nothing about it.
The easiest option is to leave, get out of the ****hole, and get the higher pay you deserve.
Unless you're incapable of leaving, then probably just suck it up instead of whining at a public forum.
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  #1017 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:03 PM
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What I never understand is why the seniors keep complaining and do nothing about it.
The easiest option is to leave, get out of the ****hole, and get the higher pay you deserve.
Unless you're incapable of leaving, then probably just suck it up instead of whining at a public forum.
Someone whining about other people whining on public forum. HAHAHA
Biggest irony ever.

You can't even follow ur own advice, want us to give a rat ass about ur opinion?
It's my keyboard i can type as I want.
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  #1018 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:08 PM
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What I never understand is why the seniors keep complaining and do nothing about it.
The easiest option is to leave, get out of the ****hole, and get the higher pay you deserve.
Unless you're incapable of leaving, then probably just suck it up instead of whining at a public forum.
Senior are doing something about it, they are bullying fresh grad. HAHAHA.
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  #1019 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:44 PM
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Someone whining about other people whining on public forum. HAHAHA
Biggest irony ever.

You can't even follow ur own advice, want us to give a rat ass about ur opinion?
It's my keyboard i can type as I want.
I just have time to read the discussions and post craps here.
But unlike you, I love my tech job, and I have amazing colleagues.
I paid decently too at >10k for 6 years of experience.
I don't overwork, neither do my colleagues.
We probably work way less than 8h daily.
I guess the difference is we all work extremely smart and efficient, delivering clear value to the company, the clients and arguably even the society.
Hence, we get the pay we deserve, yet have time to mock at you whiners.

I was paid <3k as a lowly engineer when I was a fresh grad, slightly below average.
My peers were getting paid more than me, and subsequent fresh grads were paid better than me for a few years.
But I never complained and whined, just did my job well, even with the measly pay.
I also learnt whatever I can, about the tech stuff, the business, the industry and meeting peers in the same industry.
It eventually paid off I guess, I'm getting opportunities every week, easily get interviews, received an offer every now and then.

Am I bragging? Maybe.
I just feel sad for you guys, just whining and doing nothing to improve your situation.
You whine and blame ST, the HR, the management, the old jiak liao bees, the fresh grads, the foreigners, and the market.
And you frame yourselves as the poor sandwiched seniors who are overworked.
It's almost too funny reading these.
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  #1020 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:45 PM
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i can safely tell u ST won't not offer 5k to fresh engineering grads

because many of the senior engineers have not even hit 5k yet

fresh grads getting 5k will surely disrupt the harmony within the organisation
ST does. Sumpa
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