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ravonboy 28-07-2013 07:41 PM

Career as a quant developer/analyst in Singapore
 
Hi. I'm a local undergrad studying Computer Science.

After much contemplation regarding the possible career paths, I realise financial remuneration is very important to me. Hence a career in the finance industry is very attractive. To that end, I wish to be a quant analyst.

I want to start working as quant developer first to get a feel of the industry, and then transitioning to quant analyst by studying MFE overseas/locally. Will like to know more about the quant developer/analyst career paths in Singapore. Their salary, career progression and job prospects etc.

Hope this thread serves as a reference point for other interested quant-wannabes 'coz I don't see a lot of such threads here.

Thanks.

Unregistered 28-07-2013 09:32 PM

Simple. Do really really well in whatever field of study. You can pretty much forget it if you can't get a first class. Be exceedingly good at probability and statistics. You will be interviewed and expected to solve a series of statistical problems on the spot. Only 1 person I know of among my cohort made it. He loved maths and has a PhD. Good luck.

Unregistered 28-07-2013 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravonboy (Post 40455)
After much contemplation regarding the possible career paths, I realise financial remuneration is very important to me. Hence a career in the finance industry is very attractive. To that end, I wish to be a quant analyst.

Heehee.
Good one.
Good luck!

Ensure that you don't spend 100% of your time studying.
You must start networking with the right people now.

ravonboy 28-07-2013 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 40459)
Simple. Do really really well in whatever field of study. You can pretty much forget it if you can't get a first class. Be exceedingly good at probability and statistics. You will be interviewed and expected to solve a series of statistical problems on the spot. Only 1 person I know of among my cohort made it. He loved maths and has a PhD. Good luck.

I see. I thought 2nd uppers would suffice in getting admitted to MFE programmes, and that MFE is a good ticket to entry-level quant jobs. Looks like I may be wrong. May I ask what kind of quant job your friend is working as?

ravonboy 28-07-2013 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 40464)
Heehee.
Good one.
Good luck!

Ensure that you don't spend 100% of your time studying.
You must start networking with the right people now.

Mmm.. good advice. I'm quite an introvert. Perhaps this is a good motivation to change myself.

Unregistered 29-07-2013 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravonboy (Post 40455)
Hi. I'm a local undergrad studying Computer Science.

After much contemplation regarding the possible career paths, I realise financial remuneration is very important to me. Hence a career in the finance industry is very attractive. To that end, I wish to be a quant analyst.

I want to start working as quant developer first to get a feel of the industry, and then transitioning to quant analyst by studying MFE overseas/locally. Will like to know more about the quant developer/analyst career paths in Singapore. Their salary, career progression and job prospects etc.

Hope this thread serves as a reference point for other interested quant-wannabes 'coz I don't see a lot of such threads here.

Thanks.

You can become a quantitative medical programmer in short a quack.
You can make alot money by quacking and conning people just start a new church

Unregistered 29-07-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravonboy (Post 40466)
I see. I thought 2nd uppers would suffice in getting admitted to MFE programmes, and that MFE is a good ticket to entry-level quant jobs. Looks like I may be wrong. May I ask what kind of quant job your friend is working as?

My friend works in an European investment bank.

Since I am not a quant, nor a MFE, I would not be able to answer your questions with any detail of accuracy. I did hear his interview questions because i was the one who recommended him ti interview for the position.

However, you might want to do 2 basic analysis:

1) % of students admitted to MFE with 2nd upper
2) % of students who managed to get a quant job after MFE.

These should be relatively easy questions to answer compared to what you would get at an actual quant interview.

Unregistered 02-10-2013 12:27 PM

Its good that you want to be a quant developer as there are very few locals who is very good in this field and there is demand for it. They need to be best of both worlds - Programming and Financial mathemathics. You also need to be proficient enough to challenge your business stakeholders (Quant guys) and speak on the same level with them to make your life easier. If money allows, best is to go for a Financial engineering masters on top of your current degree while working for an Investment Bank, preferably in the front office/Risk management as a Business Analyst/Analyst role to get yourself familiarise with the terms and jargons and also to fill up some experience in your resume.

Unregistered 02-10-2013 01:24 PM

i'm on my way to being a quant, doing algo trades and stuff, but i don't think financial enumeration is getting better. quant jobs are largely disappearing, quant graduates are largely growing. singapore may be in demand for quants, but it's still relatively small unless the financial culture open up like in the U.S. HFT is still not common, and only tons and tons of regulations.

that said, risk management jobs are increasingly getting bigger and better, and in risk there are various roles including quant. you may want to consider comp finance, quant finance, or frm besides mfe.

if u can handle excitement, become a trader. u don't need quant qualifications to trade, but having financial knowledge helps to know what you're up against - bond traders, option traders, equty traders who use statistical analysis to identify arbitrage.

Unregistered 02-10-2013 02:10 PM

quants can make how much a year?

Darkzi0n 02-10-2013 02:24 PM

U have to be exceedingly good in math to be a quant. I failed to enter NUS quantitative finance major with a first year CAP of 4.65. I suspect part of the reason is bcos I failed to give a satisfactory ans y I got a B+ for one of my math mod.

Also, my brief research about quant that time told me that Singapore does not offer much opportunities as a quant.. If u wan to be a quant u might have a better chance overseas.

Unregistered 02-10-2013 04:08 PM

quant is so passe after 2008.

Unregistered 02-10-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43263)
quant is so passe after 2008.

Not really...quants are mostly under-rated because they are not as vocal and in the limelight as the rest of the financial markets teams like sales, trading...but they are very smart people.

Unregistered 03-10-2013 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43278)
Not really...quants are mostly under-rated because they are not as vocal and in the limelight as the rest of the financial markets teams like sales, trading...but they are very smart people.

who care whether they smart or not. their pay is pathetic compare to the frontline.

Unregistered 04-10-2013 11:19 AM

really?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43281)
who care whether they smart or not. their pay is pathetic compare to the frontline.

you are obviously clueless of what your are talking about

Unregistered 04-10-2013 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43359)
you are obviously clueless of what your are talking about

quants even fresh grads make close to 300k annual include bonus

Unregistered 11-10-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43364)
quants even fresh grads make close to 300k annual include bonus

Did you pull that number out of your ass while taking a crap?

So i say frontline staff can easily make $100,000 a month on basic, commission and bonus. Believe or not?

lordlad 11-10-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43364)
quants even fresh grads make close to 300k annual include bonus

sorry...that number is abit hard to swallow...fresh grads 300k per annum.....how many senior executive position even got paid that much in this day & age?

i think you are inflated the value of quant to unrealistic levels..

Unregistered 12-10-2013 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43263)
quant is so passe after 2008.

And your knowledge of quants is irrelevant in 2013.

Unregistered 12-10-2013 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43281)
who care whether they smart or not. their pay is pathetic compare to the frontline.

Their ranges overlap so your statement is not accurate.

Unregistered 12-10-2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43364)
quants even fresh grads make close to 300k annual include bonus

Please don't spout nonsense here.
Please name the firm which pays ~300k for a fresh grad for a quant position.

Unregistered 13-10-2013 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43785)
Please don't spout nonsense here.
Please name the firm which pays ~300k for a fresh grad for a quant position.

Quant fresh grads here refer to those with phd's in finance or masters of financial engineering from top tier unis, not those average finance programmes in smu, nus, ntu.

Don't have a false sense of high hopes guys.

Unregistered 13-10-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43791)
Quant fresh grads here refer to those with phd's in finance or masters of financial engineering from top tier unis, not those average finance programmes in smu, nus, ntu.

Don't have a false sense of high hopes guys.

The real quants who stick in the world of high finance have bonuses easily exceeding 500k in good years, many people in sg seem to think any tom dick harry with a masters in applied finance /CFA that is doing some analytical work in a bank is called "quant".

Unregistered 13-10-2013 07:29 PM

Glassdoor salaries for d e shaw ard usd 135K

Jeff 13-10-2013 11:24 PM

Wow, I think my comment to the questioner is not to read this thread - everyone is pretty clueless here. You're better of asking this to someone in your university recruitment centre.

Unregistered 14-10-2013 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43364)
quants even fresh grads make close to 300k annual include bonus

Erm, that figure is a bit low.

Unregistered 14-10-2013 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 43811)
Erm, that figure is a bit low.

Ya, wikipedia says " As of 2013, Goldman Sachs employed 31,700 people worldwide.[39] In 2013, the firm reported earnings of US$9.34 billion and record earnings per share of $160.66.[47] It was reported that the average total compensation per employee in 2006 was US$622,000. "

$622,000 per employee, imagine what quants get given this info.

Donny 18-10-2013 09:36 PM

Guys, let me shed some light on this matter from someone who is actually a quant (not risk management but quantitative trading) and actually knows about the companies and the figures.

From the top US school I graduated from, my room mates were seeking these sort of jobs. Some of them got it, straight from graduation, with high but not that exorbitant starting salaries.

(figures roughly converted to SGD$ for easy comparison.)

The highest salary someone coming straight out of undergraduate and working as a quant - $150,000. The place is Jane Street. First hand knowledge.

That straight out of PhD - I would guess $220,000 is doable. The place is Renaissance Technologies.

So why all this skepticism that these numbers are fake? Simply because most Singaporeans are not tuned into the quant scene outside Singapore. I'm thankful for my adventures in a top school where you are surrounded with this sort of talent that is worth this kind of money.

When you are fighting with this sort of talent, it's not longer a matter of getting a first class. It's a matter of how well you can marry computer science, math and finance together.

-Donny

Unregistered 19-10-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny (Post 44033)
Guys, let me shed some light on this matter from someone who is actually a quant (not risk management but quantitative trading) and actually knows about the companies and the figures.

From the top US school I graduated from, my room mates were seeking these sort of jobs. Some of them got it, straight from graduation, with high but not that exorbitant starting salaries.

(figures roughly converted to SGD$ for easy comparison.)

The highest salary someone coming straight out of undergraduate and working as a quant - $150,000. The place is Jane Street. First hand knowledge.

That straight out of PhD - I would guess $220,000 is doable. The place is Renaissance Technologies.

So why all this skepticism that these numbers are fake? Simply because most Singaporeans are not tuned into the quant scene outside Singapore. I'm thankful for my adventures in a top school where you are surrounded with this sort of talent that is worth this kind of money.

When you are fighting with this sort of talent, it's not longer a matter of getting a first class. It's a matter of how well you can marry computer science, math and finance together.

-Donny

The problem most fresh grads have is they are so stuck in their limited job hunting experience in low end jobs in MNCs paying <10k that they automatically just refuse to believe there are fresh grads who can make few hundred thousand USD annual.

Unregistered 20-10-2013 12:59 PM

Saw this for those who might be interested:

Macquarie hiring:

We are looking for a front-office Quantitative Analyst to join a team dedicated to developing and maintaining the quantitative capabilities across FICC. The role is based in Singapore, and has a primary focus on the global FX businesses.

The responsibilities of the Quantitative Analyst will be to:

Develop and maintain our quantitative modelling library;
Research and implement financial models for derivative valuation;
Work closely with traders, structurers, and marketers, providing quantitative support;
Liaise with other areas of the bank on model development and approval.
We are seeking a candidate with:

One to four years of experience as a front office quant;
Outstanding academic achievements, with a PhD in a quantitative discipline (e.g. mathematics, physics or engineering);
Strong knowledge of FX products, both vanilla & exotics;
Good written and verbal communication skills and the ability to work autonomously and under pressure;
Excellent programming skills - experience with C++ and Python will be advantageous.

Unregistered 05-11-2013 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 44067)
The problem most fresh grads have is they are so stuck in their limited job hunting experience in low end jobs in MNCs paying <10k that they automatically just refuse to believe there are fresh grads who can make few hundred thousand USD annual.

It is extremely rare for a person to be hired as a quant with just a bachelors. In fact, I've never heard of it. As far as I know, most quants are PhDs with years of specialized experience in programming complex mathematical models with C++. Even a masters in financial engineering is not enough since graduates from these program do not have much experience implementing models in C++. Some of the skills investment banks can be very specialized. For example, a quant friend of mine was looking people with experience in GPU programming and he's willing to shell out >250K USD.

Also, the average base starting pay in Goldman Sachs is around 110 to 130K USD for a physics PhD with zero finance experience. That sounds like a lot until you realize that you'd have to live in NYC...

To be fair, the base salary for a PhD quant rises very quickly after 2 years. Also, the pay for a quant is adjusted for Singapore's tax level. Fresh quants in Singapore make less than quants in NYC after taxes. Then again, the level of quant work in Singapore is much less demanding technically speaking than those in HK, London and NYC.

Unregistered 10-11-2013 06:13 AM

which 1 earn more? algo trader or quant pricer?

Unregistered 01-03-2016 03:52 PM

Just writing here to clear up all the misinformation in this thread...

How do you become a quant? There are three ways:

1. Get a PhD or masters in a quantitative subject (math, physics, CS)
2. No PhD? Then get work experience at sell-side financial markets.
3. No work experience? Then be extremely good at programming. Brush up on your C++ and Python programming skills.

It's very unlikely for someone to become a quant with just a bachelor's degree. If any degree holder tells you his job title is a "quant", he is most likely in a trading, risk, or software development role.

It's getting even more competitive now with the flood of MFE graduates these days. Many of these MFE grads end up in risk management roles or software engineering roles (which are not too bad and pay quite decently too).

Unregistered 01-03-2016 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80662)
1. Get a PhD or masters in a quantitative subject (math, physics, CS)
2. No PhD? Then get work experience at sell-side financial markets.
3. No work experience? Then be extremely good at programming. Brush up on your C++ and Python programming skills.

As someone has revived this thread, let me give an update on the industry in Singapore. I know certain things but wish to know more about those with MFE. I didn't come from the MFE route so wish to know more from those who did.

This is correct. However, I've know enough of the industry to summarize the link between title and work. The label "quant" gets thrown around quite often. The three main ones are quant analyst, quant researcher and quant developer. On one hand, you get quant analysts who do 90% programming and another quant developer who does 50% strategy. So for those who want to enter this industry, know this - "titles rarely matter, it's the work that does."

Most of us aspiring to be in a revenue generating position. In line with what I just said, the track I recommend for most is to FIRST get into the fund as a quant XXX, SECOND do a good job and show that your undepensible, THIRD now ask for responsibilities that show you can generate revenue.

As for the MFE's, how it coming along? Some say MFE is the masters you have to get to get into quant positions. I know my math and I know my industry. Knowing everything on stochastic calculus doesn't immediately give you the techniques to trade profitably. Don't fool me. Here are three examples how the MFE route doesn't work.

1) You know everything about stochastic calculus. You spend two years pricing an exotic option but soon realize the market doesn't trade it. No flow, no money.
2) Okay, so you did some project on machine learning. Either, your model has lost its edge once you push into the market. Or, it'll take another one year at least to iron out the naunces with you attempt to implement your model with prices from your fund's brokers. Your model is profitable with 10bps spread. Well, JPM is trading 20m EURs with 20bps spread. Doubt your model is gonna work.
3) All you learn in MFE is textbook industry established knowledge. Nothing new, no edge.

Am I wrong? The point is, you want the quickest route to work on a model that is market tested. You do that in an actual fund not in MFE.

Unregistered 01-03-2016 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80668)
As someone has revived this thread, let me give an update on the industry in Singapore. I know certain things but wish to know more about those with MFE. I didn't come from the MFE route so wish to know more from those who did.

This is correct. However, I've know enough of the industry to summarize the link between title and work. The label "quant" gets thrown around quite often. The three main ones are quant analyst, quant researcher and quant developer. On one hand, you get quant analysts who do 90% programming and another quant developer who does 50% strategy. So for those who want to enter this industry, know this - "titles rarely matter, it's the work that does."

Most of us aspiring to be in a revenue generating position. In line with what I just said, the track I recommend for most is to FIRST get into the fund as a quant XXX, SECOND do a good job and show that your undepensible, THIRD now ask for responsibilities that show you can generate revenue.

As for the MFE's, how it coming along? Some say MFE is the masters you have to get to get into quant positions. I know my math and I know my industry. Knowing everything on stochastic calculus doesn't immediately give you the techniques to trade profitably. Don't fool me. Here are three examples how the MFE route doesn't work.

1) You know everything about stochastic calculus. You spend two years pricing an exotic option but soon realize the market doesn't trade it. No flow, no money.
2) Okay, so you did some project on machine learning. Either, your model has lost its edge once you push into the market. Or, it'll take another one year at least to iron out the naunces with you attempt to implement your model with prices from your fund's brokers. Your model is profitable with 10bps spread. Well, JPM is trading 20m EURs with 20bps spread. Doubt your model is gonna work.
3) All you learn in MFE is textbook industry established knowledge. Nothing new, no edge.

Am I wrong? The point is, you want the quickest route to work on a model that is market tested. You do that in an actual fund not in MFE.

I once asked a hedge fund manager what he look out for in a new entry level quant. "Smart with numbers" is what he said, couldn't care less for exact knowledge as they are mostly outdated if it reaches textbook.

Unregistered 08-01-2021 07:38 PM

Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

Unregistered 08-01-2021 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 152943)
Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

Think first you have to differentiate which positions you are aiming for. Quant Researcher, Trader or SWE? I may be wrong, but when attending the recent recruitment talk for Citadel Hong Kong, they seem to be looking for strong PHD applicants for their Quant Researcher role. Not sure how strongly an MFE will be considered. For Trader and SWE positions, bachelors is enough.

Unregistered 09-01-2021 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 152943)
Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

A recruiter reached out from one of said firms so I know they are hiring.

Unregistered 24-01-2021 09:47 PM

what if i have:
- a MFE
- knows how to trade forex, indices, crypto
- I'm mid 40s
- but don't have trading track record

eventual aim is to go towards algo trader role, will I be able to get a entry level job as a quant developer first? does hedge fund, banks for FI willingly to get me in? I presume age is a big consideration for them. even though having a MFE at mid 40s does shows my passion but passion is not the answer to cross over the door.

Unregistered 25-01-2021 03:33 PM

Got offered desk quant role at squarepoint. Anyone knows if squarepoint is a good hedge fund?


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