Career as a quant developer/analyst in Singapore

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The problem most fresh grads have is they are so stuck in their limited job hunting experience in low end jobs in MNCs paying <10k that they automatically just refuse to believe there are fresh grads who can make few hundred thousand USD annual.

It is extremely rare for a person to be hired as a quant with just a bachelors. In fact, I've never heard of it. As far as I know, most quants are PhDs with years of specialized experience in programming complex mathematical models with C++. Even a masters in financial engineering is not enough since graduates from these program do not have much experience implementing models in C++. Some of the skills investment banks can be very specialized. For example, a quant friend of mine was looking people with experience in GPU programming and he's willing to shell out >250K USD.

Also, the average base starting pay in Goldman Sachs is around 110 to 130K USD for a physics PhD with zero finance experience. That sounds like a lot until you realize that you'd have to live in NYC...

To be fair, the base salary for a PhD quant rises very quickly after 2 years. Also, the pay for a quant is adjusted for Singapore's tax level. Fresh quants in Singapore make less than quants in NYC after taxes. Then again, the level of quant work in Singapore is much less demanding technically speaking than those in HK, London and NYC.

which 1 earn more? algo trader or quant pricer?

Just writing here to clear up all the misinformation in this thread...

How do you become a quant? There are three ways:

1. Get a PhD or masters in a quantitative subject (math, physics, CS)
2. No PhD? Then get work experience at sell-side financial markets.
3. No work experience? Then be extremely good at programming. Brush up on your C++ and Python programming skills.

It's very unlikely for someone to become a quant with just a bachelor's degree. If any degree holder tells you his job title is a "quant", he is most likely in a trading, risk, or software development role.

It's getting even more competitive now with the flood of MFE graduates these days. Many of these MFE grads end up in risk management roles or software engineering roles (which are not too bad and pay quite decently too).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1. Get a PhD or masters in a quantitative subject (math, physics, CS)
2. No PhD? Then get work experience at sell-side financial markets.
3. No work experience? Then be extremely good at programming. Brush up on your C++ and Python programming skills.

As someone has revived this thread, let me give an update on the industry in Singapore. I know certain things but wish to know more about those with MFE. I didn't come from the MFE route so wish to know more from those who did.

This is correct. However, I've know enough of the industry to summarize the link between title and work. The label "quant" gets thrown around quite often. The three main ones are quant analyst, quant researcher and quant developer. On one hand, you get quant analysts who do 90% programming and another quant developer who does 50% strategy. So for those who want to enter this industry, know this - "titles rarely matter, it's the work that does."

Most of us aspiring to be in a revenue generating position. In line with what I just said, the track I recommend for most is to FIRST get into the fund as a quant XXX, SECOND do a good job and show that your undepensible, THIRD now ask for responsibilities that show you can generate revenue.

As for the MFE's, how it coming along? Some say MFE is the masters you have to get to get into quant positions. I know my math and I know my industry. Knowing everything on stochastic calculus doesn't immediately give you the techniques to trade profitably. Don't fool me. Here are three examples how the MFE route doesn't work.

1) You know everything about stochastic calculus. You spend two years pricing an exotic option but soon realize the market doesn't trade it. No flow, no money.
2) Okay, so you did some project on machine learning. Either, your model has lost its edge once you push into the market. Or, it'll take another one year at least to iron out the naunces with you attempt to implement your model with prices from your fund's brokers. Your model is profitable with 10bps spread. Well, JPM is trading 20m EURs with 20bps spread. Doubt your model is gonna work.
3) All you learn in MFE is textbook industry established knowledge. Nothing new, no edge.

Am I wrong? The point is, you want the quickest route to work on a model that is market tested. You do that in an actual fund not in MFE.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As someone has revived this thread, let me give an update on the industry in Singapore. I know certain things but wish to know more about those with MFE. I didn't come from the MFE route so wish to know more from those who did.

This is correct. However, I've know enough of the industry to summarize the link between title and work. The label "quant" gets thrown around quite often. The three main ones are quant analyst, quant researcher and quant developer. On one hand, you get quant analysts who do 90% programming and another quant developer who does 50% strategy. So for those who want to enter this industry, know this - "titles rarely matter, it's the work that does."

Most of us aspiring to be in a revenue generating position. In line with what I just said, the track I recommend for most is to FIRST get into the fund as a quant XXX, SECOND do a good job and show that your undepensible, THIRD now ask for responsibilities that show you can generate revenue.

As for the MFE's, how it coming along? Some say MFE is the masters you have to get to get into quant positions. I know my math and I know my industry. Knowing everything on stochastic calculus doesn't immediately give you the techniques to trade profitably. Don't fool me. Here are three examples how the MFE route doesn't work.

1) You know everything about stochastic calculus. You spend two years pricing an exotic option but soon realize the market doesn't trade it. No flow, no money.
2) Okay, so you did some project on machine learning. Either, your model has lost its edge once you push into the market. Or, it'll take another one year at least to iron out the naunces with you attempt to implement your model with prices from your fund's brokers. Your model is profitable with 10bps spread. Well, JPM is trading 20m EURs with 20bps spread. Doubt your model is gonna work.
3) All you learn in MFE is textbook industry established knowledge. Nothing new, no edge.

Am I wrong? The point is, you want the quickest route to work on a model that is market tested. You do that in an actual fund not in MFE.

I once asked a hedge fund manager what he look out for in a new entry level quant. "Smart with numbers" is what he said, couldn't care less for exact knowledge as they are mostly outdated if it reaches textbook.

Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

Think first you have to differentiate which positions you are aiming for. Quant Researcher, Trader or SWE? I may be wrong, but when attending the recent recruitment talk for Citadel Hong Kong, they seem to be looking for strong PHD applicants for their Quant Researcher role. Not sure how strongly an MFE will be considered. For Trader and SWE positions, bachelors is enough.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, thanks for the very insightful discussion! Since the last post was 5 years ago, I was wondering if anyone can give an update on the quant market in Singapore today? (especially in light of the news that Citadel and DE Shaw setting up shop here).

I interned as an SWE in one of the BB last summer and have plans to pursue an MFE overseas. What are the chances of landing a quant job in Singapore 2-5 years from now?

Thank you!

A recruiter reached out from one of said firms so I know they are hiring.

what if i have:
- a MFE
- knows how to trade forex, indices, crypto
- I'm mid 40s
- but don't have trading track record

eventual aim is to go towards algo trader role, will I be able to get a entry level job as a quant developer first? does hedge fund, banks for FI willingly to get me in? I presume age is a big consideration for them. even though having a MFE at mid 40s does shows my passion but passion is not the answer to cross over the door.

Got offered desk quant role at squarepoint. Anyone knows if squarepoint is a good hedge fund?