Career prospect/advancement for Banking sales roles vs Banking "back end" roles
 

I would like to know more abt the career advancement for the comparison between both roles.

From my understanding, banking sales role will have potential of high income if u are gd in sales. You stand a chance to build up your finance fast but of coz subject to individual capabilities. However, it gets very unhealthy esp in your personal life and a lot of sacrifices to be made for the long hours. Most imptly how many years can you chiong? When economies downturn, it get rather stressful about having target to meet and worse still if the commission is cut. What is the prospect like in long terms compare to backend roles.

But for back end roles, it might be a very low pay start. But from some thread, I understand tat due to fact of job hopping and if you are lucky, the pay increment seems to build up very fast. Taking eg as the job prospect for analyst > associate > AVP > VP ... If I am correct, within 7 -8 yrs, you should be looking at a AVP position for an average performer and pay should be at a median of 6-7k.

I am in a dielima to choose between a contract based of KYC roles in an german bank and Personal financial consultant role in stand chart.

KYC roles in a German bank
No doubt pay start a bit low ard 2.4k for backend job in bank, but my friend got convert into perm within a yr and drawing 3.7k. Now going for interview to another company for 4.3k. I believe his career advancement will hit 6k within 5 - 6 yrs time which I can see that there is prospect for this trade in long term. The working hrs seems fine too. 5.5 days job work from 9 to 6.

PFC roles in standard chartered
one of my friend is doing quite well in PFC.. drawing 8k a mth and she is consider an average player only. But what I worried abt sales roles is because of the prospect in long term. No doubt I am quite ok to chiong now. But start to worried if I wanted to settle down and planning to have kids. By then I might need a career switch. But when that happens, where can I switch to ?where I could have a better work life balance job but yet without having too much pay cut with my relevant sales experience.


So between this 2 job industries, I would like to know what prospect should I be looking at 8 - 10 yrs time. Which make a healthier and wiser choice? Need some constructive advices from you guys.

You make it sound as if plenty of banks are offering you various options for you to take your fancy and choose...

How many offers do you have on hand? How many positions are you in various advanced stage of interviews?

lol quite accurate, i started doing back end in 2005 starting pay 2K, now ~8.5 years at AVP rank drawing 6.3K. Working hours are wonderful 9 - 5.30 for 5 days with very little OT. In the 8.5 years I have worked in 5 other banks (so currently in 6th bank). Started off in standchart doing enterprise banking operations. After that moved to credit risk, corporate credit risk and all along those lines.

Are you sure your working timing are from 9am to 5.30pm my few friend working at DBS told me their offical timing is from 9am to 6.30pm unless u telling me u r in the BM role that you can knock off 1hour early everyday.

was cecDate
 

erm I don't recall saying I am in DBS, I am in a regional Asian bank. Our official working hours are 9 - 5.30 pm.

DBS working hours are currently Monday's to Thursday : 8.30 - 6.00 and Friday's 8.30 to 5.00. They just revised it about a year ago. Those starting at 9 would be 6.30 yep.

Dun get me wrong as if i got plenty of offers. lol. I have went to none interview yet coz I have not decide which industry I should be aiming for. And I do really find tat this first step is critical and impt as switching field such as (sales to backend or backend to sales) during urs mid career is definitely a pain in your ass lol. So I wish to pay more attention and emphasis on this headstart.

So I am juz laying all pros and cons and comparison of both industry, best if you guys could and also share urs salary, worklife, exp, amt of yrs to climb to current position etc.

Thanks for sharing, so do u have any year end bonus beside urs 6.3k salary? how is the work life for operations. I have friends telling me that it really depend on which department you are in... eg. payment work like hell lots of OT... risk management or KYC are the better ones? true? Sorry I am very green here and trying to find out more.. so tat I can narrow down which industry and banking field I should be aiming for.

hallodo were
 

Year end bonus about 2 months. Technically speaking I am not in operations, I am in middle office, credit risk management for corporate banking. er yeah so under risk management. Definitely better then operations like loan operations, trade processing, remittances etc.

Whether you have work life balance also depends on the bank tho. Most big names here like scb, citi, hsbc or the local banks sure damm busy cos of their size so their business volume is v heavy. Banks with smaller offices here will not be as busy but maybe bonuses also not so good etc.

ffeense son
 

Work life is ok, I read the Today paper first thing in the morning, own time own target do my own work, got time to come play forum here lol. Few weeks back I spent a while spamming starhub to order my galaxy s4 etc etc lol. No complains about work life here.

My previous place was much more siong tho, super niao management, go lunch >1 hour only tio complain, expect pple to work late and work load also much heavier. Usually work until 7 - 8 pm everyday. That one was a nihonjin bank and only my department worked late knn...

To climb to AVP, is it very difficult to attain ? Wat is the responsibility and job nature like, stressful ? I do read that though pple might be in the same position, company, yr exp... the salary might varies a lot. Its seems very dependent on how u command urs pay at the starting of your career. Time and space play an impt role too.. Saw some associates in the forum are already drawing 6-7k.. is it true?

so other than risk management, which roles in backend roles is gd as well ( with work life balance haha) and always have a demand in the industry.

Sorry I seem to want the best side of the both world. Haha we are human afterall. Life is short, not everything is abt work work work, I do wish to have some personal time too to have time for family. But of coz, when I comes to work, I will definitely give my best shot. hope you guys dun penalize me for asking so much =P

What role and position are u in?


More of sharing pls, pertaining to my topic qns asked - choose between sales role or backend roles? For sales line sharing, hope u can share how you cope with work life balance and describe urs job nature and prospect. Thanks.

Climbing to AVP, not v difficult to attain. After certain number of years etc auto promote etc unless you are doing some really backend role with no prospects. Anyway rank is not important $$$ is more important. Also how much your position / rank pays you depends on your jobscope etc / last drawn pay etc.

Other good backend roles i can think of which are in demand are prolly compliance, finance and accounting (these generally have bad worklife balance tho), market risk/ops risk management.

I am currently a credit analyst, responsible for conducting annual review's of the bank's corporate exposures. I basically do the reviews and present them in the credit committee meeting to get approvals. I manage the review schedule myself, just need to ensure everything is reviewed by year end.

I have been in semi-sales line as a assistant RM in corporate banking. If you want a 'sales' job with good work life balance i would recommend being a RM in a japanese bank. No pressure to hit targets as the senior SVPs are the one who bear the brunt of the targets and you just 'assist' them etc. No stress at all and bonuses not bad in the range of 4 - 6 months.

Thanks for the sharing and advise bro, its veri constructive and its some piece of sharing that I have been searching for ... however I need more of these sharing from u guys to make up my mind. though I have come close to my decision.

How abt pple in sales line? more sharing of urs work life and lifestyle? whats urs mindset and plans when u started off banking sales line. fast cash, build up urs finance and invest or business for early retirement? I believe one would like to enjoy life and likely exhausted by in this industry once u rhed beyond mark of age 40. I would like to hear more sharing from banking sales line.

keneffo seas
 

anybody interviewed for uob banking ops officer ? went for an interview today with VP of HR UOB

VP HR is just some super small fry, likely got more interview if you selected.

Really? Her LinkedIn very colorful

Nah that is just standard banking big title flashy CV. A typical UOB rank is like:

Associate
AM
VP1
VP2
FVP1
FVP2
SVP1
SVP2
ED1
ED2
MD1
MD2
Executive Level (President, EVP, some MD2)

VP is just a normal rank that most average deg grads will get in their late 20s or early 30s. VP1 is like AM & VP2 around Manager in most global MNC.

business Rildies
 

She asked why I chose UOB bro. Why not other banks? How would you have answered ? I told her the truth. I have a friend in UOB, and she's happy despite the long working hours because they have a good culture, where everyone is always eager to help and guide new staffs. And I believe work culture within an organization is key to having efficiency at work.

Just curious, how much does a SVP doing compliance earn in UOB?

Hi All,

I am in a dilemma too. I am in my early thirties and was offered between a sales manager post (consumer banking) & back end manager role (Operations-branch).

A) Sales manager post (consumer banking)-where I will be in charge of credit card sales through telemarketing & roadshows (direct sales) etc. occasionally have big scale roadshows on weekends and need to be present to ensure smooth operations.
and
B) Backend manager role (Operations-Branch) where I will be in charge of providing sales training (sales coach) to branch tellers etc and initiating sales activities to branch tellers etc. typically 5 days work week.

In your opinion, which of the above have a better prospect and work life balance as both seems pretty attractive? I am currently married but no kid, plan to start my family in next 3-5 years.

All advises are welcome.

Thks!

Hi All,

I am in a dilemma too. I am in my early thirties and was offered between a sales manager post (consumer banking) & back end manager role (Operations-branch).

A) Sales manager post (consumer banking)-where I will be in charge of credit card sales through telemarketing & roadshows (direct sales) etc. occasionally have big scale roadshows on weekends and need to be present to ensure smooth operations.
and
B) Backend manager role (Operations-Branch) where I will be in charge of providing sales training (sales coach) to branch tellers etc and initiating sales activities to branch tellers etc. typically 5 days work week.

In your opinion, which of the above have a better prospect and work life balance as both seems pretty attractive? I am currently married but no kid, plan to start my family in next 3-5 years.

All advises are welcome.

Thks!

would like to hear more from those doing banking sales too. but not much replies.....all too busy chionging sales? :/

I wish to hear more about this as well, preferably from those who has been in similar 'dilemma' before. I'm tired of taking just a 'fixed' pay but yet, I'm not sure about the prospects of a banking sales career.

if im not wrong for personal banker, they have a monthly sales target to meet?

is it still the same once they move on to higher positions such as RMs or private bankers?

Yes there are targets to hit.
If u did not hit, u darw basic only. N u will get invited by ur mgr for a chit chat session.
I been with uob as a pba previously.
Seriously if u can't persuade pple well, don't think too much of joining sales. Hard work don't turn into sales. Sweet talk does. Cos everyone is selling the same product.
I waste 6 mths of my life earning much lesser if u divided ur time spent n effort put in compare to backend
True that u get promote faster n Earn more than backend, but how many top sales u think there is. Not many I will say. Say wrong thing to customer become mis-sell.. Too complain to mas n there goes ur iron rice bowl.
Currently Im doing back end @ another local bank n i think it's more relax though I work till 7pm daily.. At least I find that I have a life..

Just my 2 cents

Hi,

Chance upon this thread and would like to enquire -

I am currently on a contract analyst role with a foreign bank's AML dept. Mostly doing transaction surveillance related work.

I recently just went for an interview with a french bank and they offer me a KYC position (fixed term contract) , base is probably 3~3.2 , details not confirm yet. But there are no bonuses at all coz its a fixed term contract... I dont foresee them converting me becoz there r other contract staffs tat r more senior than me...

Should i make the jump ? Pay increment is about 500+... But from what i gathered KYC is mainly processing the documents passed down by the front line guys. Of coz we need to take steps to ascertain the credibility of those documents by doing some brief kyc stuffs in line of the AML regulations. My main interest lies with AML compliance, will this role help me make the switch to a perm AML position next time?

Any feedback is very much appreciated.

hi can anyone share the differences and comparisons between a personal banker for mass consumer market VS a personal banker for SMEs, other than the profiles of customers of cos. are they on the same payscale such as basic and comms across the banks?

AML - anti money laundering and KYC - know your customer go hand in hand. Cos you need to know your customer and what the hell are they doing with their money and where it came from to prevent money laundering. So it would probably be useful to switch to a AML position next time. Of course while doing your KYC role you should try to learn more AML stuff at the same time so you can market yourself as a KYC-AML specialist in your future role lol.

Different pay scale and different comm structure. Personal banker is very sales driven, more customers, sell more investment products, sales sales sales. A SME relationship manager (they dun call them personal bankers), also has sales target but usually the bulk of the target is reached by getting existing customers to use the credit facilities more. Eg, use more of the loans, use more trade facilities, take more overdraft, take more loans. Getting new customers is secondary.

SME sales managers are the one more focused on getting new accounts which are then passed on to the relationship managers to manage / farm.

thanks, how different are the pay & comm structure? will their remuneration be about the same/more/less based on the same amount of work/effort put in ? does a SME personal banker (allow me to use this term for now) need to be certified in CMFAS?

im more or less quite well versed in what a personal banker do but cant seem to find much info regarding SME personal banker. how do they get new customers? is it fair to say that on the whole, it will be more challenging than a personal banker (mass consumer market)?

Pay and comm structure are completely different due to the selling of completely different products. I am not so sure how much top performing consumer PBs earn but i have heard of top performing SME sales earning up to $100k commission per quarter (some banks pay their commission every 3 months). Their base pay i think is also slightly higher then consumer PBs.

Generally no need CMFAS unless you want to advise the SME towkay on investments or the company wants to do a IPO / M&A or buy debt securities.


SME bankers get new customers by cold calling companies, going to industrial estates like Tuas, Ubi, Loyang, Paya Lebar and go door to door to the companies, getting referral from branches, getting referral from existing SME customers.

Most banks also split their SME banking into different segments. The very small business segment, medium enterprises for slightly bigger companies, another segment for even bigger-listed companies and global corporate banking for large MNCs, GLS and local MNCs.

It is possible for top performing commercial bankers, those that focus on SME banking to exceed $1million total salary. The word around UOB where I work is that 7 individuals hit that amount last year.

Somehow i don't think so. Even a VP/Director investment banker makes only ~$700K p.a. Maybe MDs hit about $1M but that's during a good year.

Cannot like that compare. Management jobs will always have higher basic and cap bonus, frontline sales is mostly commission. The average manager will be higher paid than the average sales, but top sales expected to make more than top manager except for senior executives.

i dunno, management seems to have lots more bonus..350%.. And these are considered corporate sales, M&A, corporate finance.

From investment banking guide:
Grade: Analyst/Associate: Base Salary £90k, bonus 50%
Grade: Vice President/Director: Base Salary £140k, bonus 150%
Grade: Managing Director: Base Salary £200k, bonus 350%

The big difference is bonus is cap. As a manager not under frontline sales, the max you will ever get is 15-18 months so no matter what you will never hit >1 million

People on sales incentive / commission do not have this limit, thats why the best can get paid much higher. Average performer is another story

Hi, sorry to ride on this thread. If you were to be given 2 roles, Auditor & Personal Banker in foreign bank. Which will you choose?

is the OCBC Business Development Manager position a personal banker role for SME customers? whats the basic pay?

is being a personal banker for SME customers much harder than for mass consumer?

Petition
 

Please help to support! thank you!
http://thepetitionsite.com/609/731/7...tory-practices

Oh Business Development Manager is the same as Business Financial Manager lol, aka sales manager, or SME hunter.

Junior basic maybe 2.5k - 3.5k ba + comm.

I think being a SME banker for SME customers is easier than mass consumer due to:

1) Mass consumer PB you are asking people to part with their hard earned money to invest in your bank's likely shitty products or savings account.

2) SME banker you are giving money to people to do their business not take their money. Well you take their money but usually in the form of interest and some fees.

3) All companies need some form of financing to bridge their working capital requirements, leverage their business or purely for international trade requirements like some suppliers require LCs, construction projects require performance bond, bankers' guarantee etc

I also think you learn more transferable skills in SME banking, financial statement analysis, industry analysis. Next time can move to credit or corporate banking or cash management or product.

actually personal banker (mass consumer mkt) not that bad lah....you learn to do and manage your own financial planning too. money is ok if you can perform...

but since mass market, sometimes you get treated like dirt....worse is those clients who hv very small accts but wanna be treated like kings.

what does the banks call their personal banker for sme customers? cant seem to find the positions on their websites....

also for pb, seems like only citibank and uob call it personal banker. what does the other banks name their personal banker?