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-   -   Should scholars get equal starting position and pay? (https://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/2746-should-scholars-get-equal-starting-position-pay.html)

darialim 20-05-2013 11:05 AM

Should scholars get equal starting position and pay?
 
Just read this article below and wondering whether it is fair that scholars get better starting position and pay, or should they be ranked together with the rest of us in our first job and subjected to the same KPIs for career progression?

Scholars should start from bottom, too | TODAYonline

Unregistered 20-05-2013 01:20 PM

From what I've observed, scholars started off on same footings with everyone. They just rise up through the ranks MUCH faster than the non-scholars, where given more opportunities to perform, and were challenged more. Also, many positions in government have no relevancy in the private sector e.g. policy. Many of these scholars shine because they know how to talk and justify "policy making" with convoluted rational that few "outsiders" understand except their own kind.

Anyway, form a senior person in public service "we pay so much for these scholars to study, of course must make sure they perform". it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Unregistered 21-05-2013 02:29 PM

Most of them do start on the same footings as non-scholar. It's largely a myth that scholars are given some official preferential treatment. However, this doesn't mean they are not advantaged. Regardless of whether you're in private or public sector, individuals are given opportunities based on how much senior management likes them. Many of those who are in senior management in the civil service are probably scholars themselves and people tend to favour their own type.

Unregistered 23-05-2013 06:13 PM

returning scholar
 
I am a returning scholar in one of the ministries and I am anticipating a first class honours in Economics from an overseas Uni. HR has just informed me that my designation will be Assistant Director in a policy making department. My starting salary shall be in excess of 4K. Personally, I am expecting life to be smooth sailing henceforth. There is no need to slog as hard as before and the next thing on my mind is to get onboard the MA scheme. I have heard that that is a precursor to becoming an AO. I would be happy if I could become a DS in 20 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darialim (Post 37278)
Just read this article below and wondering whether it is fair that scholars get better starting position and pay, or should they be ranked together with the rest of us in our first job and subjected to the same KPIs for career progression?

Scholars should start from bottom, too | TODAYonline


Unregistered 23-05-2013 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37441)
I am a returning scholar in one of the ministries and I am anticipating a first class honours in Economics from an overseas Uni. HR has just informed me that my designation will be Assistant Director in a policy making department. My starting salary shall be in excess of 4K. Personally, I am expecting life to be smooth sailing henceforth. There is no need to slog as hard as before and the next thing on my mind is to get onboard the MA scheme. I have heard that that is a precursor to becoming an AO. I would be happy if I could become a DS in 20 years.

If AD in MTI = entry level. I have seen returning scholars from Oxford taking on Senior Executive positions. They do all start entry level. Yes they do select MA near graduation or after grad I think - good luck. It's a dog eat dog world out there in the MA/AO world (at least the first 10 yrs)

A Civil Servant 23-05-2013 10:08 PM

TS should have worked harder to become a scholar

Unregistered 24-05-2013 01:11 AM

I look forward to accelerated progression in my ministry....:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37443)
If AD in MTI = entry level. I have seen returning scholars from Oxford taking on Senior Executive positions. They do all start entry level. Yes they do select MA near graduation or after grad I think - good luck. It's a dog eat dog world out there in the MA/AO world (at least the first 10 yrs)


Unregistered 24-05-2013 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37461)
I look forward to accelerated progression in my ministry....:)

PSC scholars don't stay in one ministry - they're rotated every 2 years...

Unregistered 24-05-2013 09:47 AM

MAs get absorbed close to the end of their 2nd rotation, i.e. after about 4-5 years.

Not sure if this is going to change with the new programme thing.

Unregistered 24-05-2013 09:47 PM

my boss told me that my CEP is up to MX8. Time to slack in office and wait for things to happen, upon my return.

Unregistered 24-05-2013 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37497)
my boss told me that my CEP is up to MX8. Time to slack in office and wait for things to happen, upon my return.

Trolls are not welcomed here. Slackers will never be absorbed into AOs - they slog like all the others in the private sector until they've shown their capabilities.

Unregistered 25-05-2013 12:17 AM

u probably do not understand how civil service works. Most AOs are selected from the organisation's pool of scholars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37500)
Trolls are not welcomed here. Slackers will never be absorbed into AOs - they slog like all the others in the private sector until they've shown their capabilities.


Unregistered 25-05-2013 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37505)
u probably do not understand how civil service works. Most AOs are selected from the organisation's pool of scholars.

What I mean is that, slacker scholars (as one poster have admitted that he/she is one of them) will never be absorbed in the AO system. All the MAs I've seen have super brains and have things constantly throw at them (i.e. they HAVE to perform) but not all of them get absorbed.

Unregistered 25-05-2013 08:12 PM

I dont have to be an AO to reach super-scale grade. They belong to different schemes. I am contended with reaching MX9 in my early 40s and MX8 in my 50s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37500)
Trolls are not welcomed here. Slackers will never be absorbed into AOs - they slog like all the others in the private sector until they've shown their capabilities.


darialim 27-05-2013 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Civil Servant (Post 37453)
TS should have worked harder to become a scholar

What makes you think I'm not?

But there are also different grades of scholarships, some are more prestigious than others, commanding higher pay scale, position etc.

Also depends on the company/organisation hiring and the previous experience of the scholar.

Unregistered 27-05-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37522)
I dont have to be an AO to reach super-scale grade. They belong to different schemes. I am contended with reaching MX9 in my early 40s and MX8 in my 50s.

I think AO superscale is very different from non-AO superscale. For example, school principals in superscale don't even earn as much as the most junior AOs.

Unregistered 27-05-2013 02:20 PM

I felt that the system should, and will stay.

I am not a scholar myself, and if I enter civil service, I will be a farmer. Though the ideals of paying equal for same job scope is enticing, we have to consider the potential for career progression. It makes sense for organisations to expedite the career progression so that the talent will stay and also contribute to the company by paying them more money.

Have you guys seen the video of the monkey who was paid unequally? Here's the link for those who hadn't. 2 Monkeys Were Paid Unequally - YouTube
This is exactly what is going on in our society. And biologically speaking, it isn't wrong. Why should scholars doing the same thing be paid more than me? It's only human that we think about this.

However, often we cannot look at things from our perspective. Let's now look at things from top down approach. How is a company going to get a top talent? Assuming that people often perform their best in their thirties, it makes sense for me to rope them in in their twenties. Oh, I also realised that top talents seems to be good in studies. Should I inject money for their education? Yes they should. Hence, the origin of scholarships. It started from a rich company trying to rope in top talents. It realises that it's management never started from the bottom and it's racking its brains on how to get a person to start from bottom and rise up to the management. Hence, the starting of scholarships. Governments and other companies have followed as well.
As mentioned earlier, the last thing a company want is for their identified top talent to leave the company. As such, they will inject monetary awards and expedite career progressions.

We may often point out flaws based on our own observation. "hey, look at A, scholar only know how to study don't know how to work". However, I do believe it holds some truth that if someone is able to get theoretical concepts quick, he/she can learn things fast as well. I had been to scholarship interviews, and though I didn't receive the scholarship, I felt that the system was a good gauge of getting sharp minds. The hit rate is high. In a governmental scholarship, one is being assessed on many things from intellectual level, to capacity to imagine (spatial awareness or something), situational awareness, and also to get past, he/she will at least have a certain level of social skills (it takes more social skills for one to wayang than to be genuinely sociable) . The system is a good assessment, hit rate is highest among many methods a company have considered, but it will never be a hundred percent hit rate.

My question is, are we going to fault the system on it's occasional misses?

Instead of endlessly disagreeing, I urge more people will learn to think critically and think of concrete solutions. What would YOU do to change the situation? What can be done?

If you have no answer, shut up and start working.

I will bring in the example of politics to explain my point. What would you do to improve the situation in Singapore with a growing xenophobic culture?
Once you get the solution, congratulations. You have my support for election. If you run for marine parade, I will move house so I can vote for you.

Unregistered 27-05-2013 06:25 PM

AO officers do earn more....Perhaps 50% to 100% more than their equivalent grades in MX scale. I am told that if an MX11 earns 5K, AO Grade 11 would command 8 to 10K. Then again, I do agree with the forumer who wrote the following post, that there is a legitimate reason for paying premium salaries to the scholars. They are scholars for a reason and overall, it works for Singapore. I mean, if you do it the other way round and start giving all the farmers an equal chance, I am not sure whether it would work just as effectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 37590)
I think AO superscale is very different from non-AO superscale. For example, school principals in superscale don't even earn as much as the most junior AOs.



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