Banking - Back Office

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yeah.. MA from one of those banks I have listed. All of us had to spend some time in Operations so we made some friends in Ops and they shared with us their lives.

I would say that Ops are pretty overworked and underpaid. Pity though because they contribute significantly to the bank. Thats why when I was in ops, I realise everyone was *ahem* sensitive topic. . Non-Singaporeans. The Singaporeans there are mainly those from *ahem* another sensitive topic.. SIM / Part-time degrees. Poly. Those who didn't do well in NTU/SMU/NUS. Or those from unrelated courses like arts.

Alot of uncles and aunties also. Those in their late 30s, 40s. No more bargaining power. Bank treats them like ****.

How bad? I saw one uncle receive $500 bonus a few years ago when I was in the department. He was late 50s and his wife had cancer. He actually retired already but the cancer wiped out his entire savings. Went back to work in OPS. No more bargaining power. . probably paid $2k? Needed the bonus badly as he hoped to bring his wife for a short trip to Malaysia.

When he went into the room. He didn't say anything. When he came out he couldn't hold back anymore and cried. Initially I admitted in my mind I was "LOL", because of Bonus cry is abit extreme right? Then when I talked to him and he told me what he needed the money for I felt very bad. I spoke to the department head and the department head told me that actually this year NO BONUS. The $500 came out from his own pocket.

Then I realise... I'm never going to stay in Ops. Work till 40 then what? No progression. No more bargaining power. Got young and cheap grads + FT to replace you anytime. Not happy leave la.. the bank happier!

Sorry abit off topic.. just remembered this incident and got abit emotional writing this.

That is just sad to hear.

Look at the highlighted line. Unrelated arts programs, nus fass econs isn't one of them right?
I'm just curious since i will soon be taking that up. But so far everything seems gloomy. Correct me if i'm wrong?

[kitkat]

It seems like ops in banks does not have a good reputation, just wondering, when people speak about bank ops is it just ops or does it include technology since O&T goes hand in hand together.

BC used to pay 54K p.a. before bonuses.
Now the salary structure is different.

You should put it on your shortlist.

Originally Posted by kitkat

Just curious, I thought fresh grad entry is at analyst-level?

Different bank, different titles.

Are the prospects that bad?
I'm considering a career in Ops.

But the feedback is really unfavourable.

Hi just to contribute some of my opinions after working a number of years in
banking..

I disagree that Ops has no prospects or proper career path. U still can go up the ranks such as AVP, VP, SVP, managing director, executive director etc (diff banks diff structure & titles) Even if u're in Ops, u still can make 200k-300k p.a. when u become senior (possibly even more if u're capable)

Money aside, Ops in general doesn't have a gd name becos the work is normally repetitive, mundane, long hours, does not require much interaction with clients/humans (other than getting scolding from front office bankers/traders), typically are not involved in/required to understand financial markets and lastly, seen as a "cost centre" to front office bankers because Ops is not generating revenue.

I work on a trading desk and I can see how vastly different my colleagues treat people from Ops versus traders/salespeople from other banks. They are curt/rude to Ops while polite and courteous to front office people from other banks in general. I find this banking culture very shallow & silly. Without people in Ops, banks cannot operate nor survive. Unfortunately, most front office people still see themselves as superior over the Ops guys.

This culture is probably worse in foreign banks compared to local banks. Like all things in life, nothing is perfect. So though banking ops roles are not the most desirable jobs to have (at least based on what i shared) they still pay very well compared to most other industries. And u get to wear nice nice and sashay into your swanky office towers in down town, plus tell your friends i work in Barclays/JPM/UBS etc etc.

I would say it's worth a try if u can't get any other "better" roles. But try not to stay for too long in backoffice. Try and do an internal transfer or apply to other firms (after 1 or 2 years) for something that is closer to the front office. eg. trade support, risk management, research etc.

You talk positives on ops but you are in front office. Have you seen a front office person aspire to get into ops? Probably not but I'm sure you have heard of the countless of Ops who try desperately to break out into front office.

It is precisely the repetitive nature and low level work that hinders your progress and development. How many in Ops rise up the ranks? Main issue is that your job scope is repetitive and almost akin to a factory line worker of a manufacturing firm. Easily replacable.

If I enter ops in DBS ops grad program or Standchart ops grad program, will I have a better career path in ops or I will suffer the same fate as other ops ppl?

To my understanding banks will groom those in grad programs even if it's ops grad program. Can anybody give me advice on this?

Not to discourage anyone from taking Econs but unless your are the top of your cohort it will be difficult to find a job.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That is just sad to hear.

Look at the highlighted line. Unrelated arts programs, nus fass econs isn't one of them right?
I'm just curious since i will soon be taking that up. But so far everything seems gloomy. Correct me if i'm wrong?

As mentioned, I was a MA in one of those banks mentioned. In my time, there are some MAs designated under the Ops program. Why? Because no MA wanted a career path through ops. Everyone wanted to go front office or at least middle office. These Ops MA are intended to rise up through the ranks to assume department head roles in back office.

Under such a program, the Ops MA indeed have a better career path. You must understand that from a selection point of view, the criteria for hiring that Ops MA is the same for the other MAs. Minimum 2nd upper honors, usually first class. 6-7 rounds of interviews. Meet CEO. That Ops MA also gets sent overseas for training just like the other MAs of the cohort. He/she also gets the rotation programs and he is regarded as a true program hire.

Now it works differently for every bank. Some bank have a Graduate hire program for Ops and it is different from their MA program. This is just a generic term and there is no really true program. It is just like any other graduate hire program. In this case you are no different from normal hires.

A simple test is to reflect on your interview process. If you got in easy, you are not under any program.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If I enter ops in DBS ops grad program or Standchart ops grad program, will I have a better career path in ops or I will suffer the same fate as other ops ppl?

To my understanding banks will groom those in grad programs even if it's ops grad program. Can anybody give me advice on this?