Originally Posted by gina (Post 30594)

Here’s my 2c.

First off, I don't think character traits are all that important, it really depends on the situation. Sometimes being aggressive and smooth talker works, sometimes it doesn’t. Just be yourself, no need to act out a character that you think the employer is looking for.

For a freshie to start off in HR, the first important thing is actually academics. Ideally your chances will be higher if you get at least a FC honors from the 3 local uni or even better oversees institutions. The reason is because if you want to jump into HR straight away, the 2 most common ways are very competitive – 1) Join a reputable HR management consultancy or 2) Join a global MNC management associate program for a HR opening. Base on my observation anyone with less than first class in the 3 local uni is at disadvantage.

The other slower way to do it is to first join operational or general administrative jobs first and slow gain experience and move your career towards HR. These jobs are much more common in job ads & portals like “HR Executive” “HR Generalist” “Operations HR” etc. But the danger from this way is like people who join banking back office hoping to leap to investment banking, it seldom happens and there is a high chance you end up trapped in some crappy job.

As for the HR PSD job, I suggest you not waste your time if you do not have a FC honors + Deans list in a local university. Such PSD jobs are future training grounds in the public sector to select candidates for mid-career AO (i.e. scholar elite) program. If your academics is average or above average, totally no chance of taking a shot. This is open secret within civil service.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30609)

Hi, thanks greatly for the input.

I am also a business studies graduate from SIM and thinking of joining HR. I am quite realistic of my expectation and know for sure with just a SIM degree (2nd upper), no chance for a HR specialist opening right away, so my thinking is also to join HR generalist admin department first and work my way up to the specialist roles.

My current interest base on all the knowledge shared is business partnering or compensation benefits. What are the steps I can take to steer my career towards this 2 specialist side once I join as the admin side? Are there any certs or important experience I must get before I can move to BP or C&B?

Also in terms of pay what is roughly the difference between a BP/C&B and normal HR Admin Manager after 8-10 years of working?

Originally Posted by gina (Post 30594)

Here’s my 2c.

First off, I don't think character traits are all that important, it really depends on the situation. Sometimes being aggressive and smooth talker works, sometimes it doesn’t. Just be yourself, no need to act out a character that you think the employer is looking for.

As for the HR PSD job, I suggest you not waste your time if you do not have a FC honors + Deans list in a local university. Such PSD jobs are future training grounds in the public sector to select candidates for mid-career AO (i.e. scholar elite) program. If your academics is average or above average, totally no chance of taking a shot. This is open secret within civil service.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30659)

I wanted to assess if my character was suitable for those HR roles as I'm not the aggressive or competitive type. If the role requires it, I wouldn't be able to succeed in such a role then.

Hmmm.... saying if one is able to get into HR PSD. As a non-scholar, the opportunities are very limited and one has not much career progression while all the scholars move ahead. Would it then be possible to move to outside HR specialist roles after a few years of experience? Would the experience in PSD be relevant to an outside HR specialist role? Or it is more of policymaking and thus not-so-relevant?

Thanks for the response!

Originally Posted by gina (Post 30661)

Can you elaborate what you mean by you are not the competitive type? Competition, hardwork and relentless drive to excel is sort of a given especially in areas like business partnering, recruitment and compensation.

There's no point in hypothesizing about "IF" you can get into HR PSD specialist route as a non-scholar because the short answer is you can't. PSD support functional roles are either scholars or people who have very strong academics who PSD sees having the potential to sponsor their further education in world class overseas universities. They don't state it in their recruitment ads because it is considered elitist and not in good form, but everyone in public sector kind of knows that. The only HR jobs PSD opens to non-academic types are operational ones which have as much value as joining any private company as a HR generalist.

My advice is you need to be honest to yourself and think about what sort of career and work life balance is more suitable for you and make a realistic choice. If you want to compete at levels that pay far beyond average careers, you need to put in 100% effort to survive the jungle. If you cannot / don't want, better not venture there in the first place.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30672)

Hi Gina, thanks for the reply.

With regards competitiveness, I remember back in University, when we were doing a group project, one group had its members reserve a recommended reference text one after another such that the book would only be available to others at the end of the module! I found that competitive and extremely distasteful. There was no need to resort to that kind of inconsiderate and selfish behaviour. Competition in that sense brings out the worst in people. It's not that I can't do the same, but I don't want to need to stoop to that level. With regards to relentless hard work, I have no issues with that. I am more concerned about fair play. I had a circle of friend where we studied together and worked hard together and we all did well. We supported one another and all did well in uni. If the roles for HR specialist requires people to resort to dirty tricks, I may not be a good candidate or I may feel worn out constantly defending against other people instead of trusting people (yes I'm quite trusting with people). Thus I asked if there is a specific personality type more inclined to work as a HR specialist.

I do have a 1st class and Dean's list from one of the 3 local Us, as you mentioned earlier. I didn't take a scholarship though.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30672)

Hi Gina, thanks for the reply.

With regards competitiveness, I remember back in University, when we were doing a group project, one group had its members reserve a recommended reference text one after another such that the book would only be available to others at the end of the module! I found that competitive and extremely distasteful. There was no need to resort to that kind of inconsiderate and selfish behaviour. Competition in that sense brings out the worst in people. It's not that I can't do the same, but I don't want to need to stoop to that level. With regards to relentless hard work, I have no issues with that. I am more concerned about fair play. I had a circle of friend where we studied together and worked hard together and we all did well. We supported one another and all did well in uni. If the roles for HR specialist requires people to resort to dirty tricks, I may not be a good candidate or I may feel worn out constantly defending against other people instead of trusting people (yes I'm quite trusting with people). Thus I asked if there is a specific personality type more inclined to work as a HR specialist.

I do have a 1st class and Dean's list from one of the 3 local Us, as you mentioned earlier. I didn't take a scholarship though.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30659)

Hmmm.... saying if one is able to get into HR PSD. As a non-scholar, the opportunities are very limited and one has not much career progression while all the scholars move ahead. Would it then be possible to move to outside HR specialist roles after a few years of experience? Would the experience in PSD be relevant to an outside HR specialist role? Or it is more of policymaking and thus not-so-relevant?

Thanks for the response!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30696)

Hmm..... does anyone have an answer for this?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by SG_User (Post 30714)

what are the skills needed if one wants to work in a HR job

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30672)

Hi Gina, thanks for the reply.

With regards competitiveness, I remember back in University, when we were doing a group project, one group had its members reserve a recommended reference text one after another such that the book would only be available to others at the end of the module! I found that competitive and extremely distasteful. There was no need to resort to that kind of inconsiderate and selfish behaviour. Competition in that sense brings out the worst in people. It's not that I can't do the same, but I don't want to need to stoop to that level. With regards to relentless hard work, I have no issues with that. I am more concerned about fair play. I had a circle of friend where we studied together and worked hard together and we all did well. We supported one another and all did well in uni. If the roles for HR specialist requires people to resort to dirty tricks, I may not be a good candidate or I may feel worn out constantly defending against other people instead of trusting people (yes I'm quite trusting with people). Thus I asked if there is a specific personality type more inclined to work as a HR specialist.

I do have a 1st class and Dean's list from one of the 3 local Us, as you mentioned earlier. I didn't take a scholarship though.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30675)

Maybe it was not referring to dirty tactics, maybe she was referring to "legitimate" means to obtain whatever it is you need to obtain. In this day and age, people are fcuk in the brains. if you do not know how to play along, you will lose out and be eliminated.

The survivors are those who know how to play the game and yet know how to stay true to oneself, be honest and truthful. They only act this way to survive, and not a complete change in personality of beliefs or character.

Originally Posted by gina (Post 30732)

It depends on what you mean by “dirty play”. If you mean is it can only succeed in the career ladder by defrauding people, then the answer is no. There is no need to commit fraud to succeed as a HR specialist.

But if you mean things like corporate politics, saying the right thing to the right people, building your patronage, playing stakeholders against one another, massaging presentations, then that goes without saying. This is after all a competitive field dealing with mostly senior managers, just hard work without knowing how to play the corporate game won’t get you far. As for relationship with peers & stakeholders there is always a subtle element of cooperation and antagonism that you need to carefully manage.

Once again, like I mention if you are not prepared to go all out, the administrative route is more suitable for you. By the way the PSD policy side is a hunting ground for future AOs, that is definitely not a place to be a “good” guy, you will get eaten up alive. Based solely on your self-description, a stat board or normal ministry career is probably more suitable for you.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 30739)

Perhaps then PSD is not so suitable for me then. What is a "normal" ministry career?

My interest in PSD stems from the fact that the JD seems to indicate an interest in people, how people think and how to work with human systems. In my current role, I'm recognised as a patient trainer for newbies and an overall "nice" and popular guy. Which "normal" ministries would I be more suitable for? Just throwing this out since you seem to know a lot.

The other jobs could be pyschologist (but my deg is not in psy) or counselling. Counselling doesn't pay well (<$2K), and it is something I can consider only when I'm financially well-to-do.

Again, thanks.

Originally Posted by gina (Post 30741)

In civil service, there is the policy side (<5%) dominated by scholars and the operations side (remaining 95%) mostly of farmers . Most PSD jobs are policy side, which means most of your peers are there to cheong, make it to AO and if lucky go on to perm sec or MOS. In terms of work hours and corporate culture policy side is very different from the normal slow pace and relax ministry environment. Being a nice guy mr popular or patient trainer wont get you anywhere.

Most of the jobs advertised on careers@gov by ministries and stat boards belong to the operations side. The work demands, politics needed and pace of life is much slower and relax. There is still a bit of politics here & there mainly taichi work and cover backside, but nothing too dangerous as people there know that as farmers their ceiling is fixed no matter what they do. Most HR roles here are administrative generalist in nature (ignore the fancy titles) and consist of mostly implementing HR policies from the top, ensure compliance to process and file necessary reports – not sexy stuff but keep your head low and don't get into trouble should be able to retire as a Dy Director (8-10k salary, equal to roughly junior manager in a MNC).

Originally Posted by SCI (Post 31066)

Hi all, I just read through this long thread and understand that HR is better to join the specialist side as pay & prospect much higher than generalist.

Can anyone give some pay number roughly after 10 years of experience, a average person ins his mid 30s what is the pay difference between a generalist and specialist?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 29399)

my advise is this - never join a local small company unless you have no choice and unemployed too long. it destroys the career straight away, mncs and local blue chips are bias against hiring people from small size company and recruiters thrash your cv straight to the bin.

of course if is your family company or you start on your own then is different...

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 31099)

I read thru this thread and found this argumentative post,

I was with a SME (11 ppl) for almost 2 years before i join HP, Hewlett-Packard.

The reason they hired me because i really contribute alot in the SME.

It is your attitude count.. wahliao...

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 31145)

You are confusing the whole issue - the real question is you join HP as what? As ops generalist or strategy specialist side? Anyone can join the generalist side, there are lots of openings to even freshies for these low level jobs, just that pay & progression is slow & limited.

Most people here are trying to ask how to position to get into specialist jobs, not generic mnc admin jobs.

Originally Posted by meet__ (Post 31158)

HP HR junior exec is confirm generalist / shared service in Singapore. Their HR Partnering / COE h/c is located mostly in HK/China and a few in India. The few specialists based in Singapore are all very senior level, definitely not with only 2 years exp in SME.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 31167)

Hi just off topic a little. I met one of HP employees a few days ago and he told me the Apac office is in Singapore. Is there any reason why spec roles will be based outside of RHQ?

Originally Posted by meet__ (Post 31176)

Sorry I was not clear earlier. What I mean is the specialist leads making up the HR leadership sit in Singapore region office, but most of the specialists are actually station at various countries where HP has a big presence. It's a virutal team with virtual reporting. My info is >1 year ago, but Im sure nothing much has changed. Thats why I'm very sure the 2 year SME person above belong to ops or admin side.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 31329)

Hi,

I'm in T&D operations role and is currently drawing 3K. I felt that I'm underpaid below market rate. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 32225)

Hi I am a degree grad in business and just went to a local small boutique hr consulting firm specializing in employee benefit for interview as a consulting senior associate. The company look quite small <10 people and their pay for freshie is apparently standard at 2.5k.

As the pay is so-so I try to ask more about career prospect. The interviewer, a very friendly angmo guy assured me that hr consulting will open a lot of doors to future management consulting and hr specialist compensation & benefits opportunites in MNC.

I am delima whether to continue the interview selection as this company is really very small and ask around also nobody heard before. I am open to it if really can lead to compensation & benefit specialst hr roles in the future as I read here and hear from others that this industry can pay very well compare to normal hr generalist or admin jobs.

Can anyone advise?

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 32227)

It's better to start with bigger firms.

Tell them you're doing a short course (find some) and request that they put the selection process on hold. Then try to get a job with the bigger firms, failing which you can go back to this small firm and continue with the interview process (if still possible).

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 32228)

Not going to work one, nobody is going to stall entire hiring to wait for some low level asociate. I'm sure he tried bigger firm first no response that's why end up going to try his luck at this small company.

My advise as long as no penalty for resigning, you can always join them first and quit when better offer comes along.

Btw what sort of benefit they do? If is things like flexi platforms or insurance brokerage, I dont think it will help to get into management consulting or compensation/benefit specialist at all.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 32225)

Hi I am a degree grad in business and just went to a local small boutique hr consulting firm specializing in employee benefit for interview as a consulting senior associate. The company look quite small <10 people and their pay for freshie is apparently standard at 2.5k.

As the pay is so-so I try to ask more about career prospect. The interviewer, a very friendly angmo guy assured me that hr consulting will open a lot of doors to future management consulting and hr specialist compensation & benefits opportunites in MNC.

I am delima whether to continue the interview selection as this company is really very small and ask around also nobody heard before. I am open to it if really can lead to compensation & benefit specialst hr roles in the future as I read here and hear from others that this industry can pay very well compare to normal hr generalist or admin jobs.

Can anyone advise?

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 32347)

Anybody would like to share their insights on HRIS specialist roles? Prospects, demand, salary range?

I'm currently a SAP HR consultant and I'm looking to move into a less technical role. I've been dealing with C&B modules (from SAP system point-of-view) and wondering if it's possible to switch directly into C&B?

I have no relevant HR education as my formal training is within the information systems domain.

Comments are appreciated.