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  #9741 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2023, 11:33 AM
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One of the main grouses here is the lack of faster promotion opportunities that the older generation used to enjoy. This can result in dissatisfaction of younger teachers. Will it help to manage out older teachers who are doing minimum but already hitting their salary ceiling? Manage out meaning puting them on PIP for example.
This will not only motivate the younger workforce to know there's room for their progression but also, the GEO 5/5A won't be able to rest on their laurels.

Win win, you get a more motivated younger workforce and the older workforce get more talented.
Umm donít u think morale of staff matters?
if u look at better performing schools, staff morale is high
Also u do if u look at AST learning frameworks , moe seems to believe experience maters
which ax someone teaching for 15 years, i believe too
our kids are getting more complex and experience is needed to deal with that

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  #9742 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2023, 11:40 AM
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Umm donít u think morale of staff matters?
if u look at better performing schools, staff morale is high
Also u do if u look at AST learning frameworks , moe seems to believe experience maters
which ax someone teaching for 15 years, i believe too
our kids are getting more complex and experience is needed to deal with that
How does experience matter if I see the complaints over here are that the older teachers on geo 5/5A are doing the minimum to get by? As I see it as well, the majority of the complaints from younger teachers are the slower pace of promotion and increment. We can't change the priority of the education budget but we can make trade-off to improve morale as a whole.
In this instance, staff on geo 5/5A should have mentoring roles to impart their experience to younger teachers in a positive working culture, with measurable KPI to take this effort into account.

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  #9743 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2023, 02:55 PM
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Umm donít u think morale of staff matters?
if u look at better performing schools, staff morale is high
Also u do if u look at AST learning frameworks , moe seems to believe experience maters
which ax someone teaching for 15 years, i believe too
our kids are getting more complex and experience is needed to deal with that
Better performing school is immediately equivalent to high staff morale?

Er...is it safe to jump to this conclusion?

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  #9744 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2023, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
One of the main grouses here is the lack of faster promotion opportunities that the older generation used to enjoy. This can result in dissatisfaction of younger teachers. Will it help to manage out older teachers who are doing minimum but already hitting their salary ceiling? Manage out meaning puting them on PIP for example.
This will not only motivate the younger workforce to know there's room for their progression but also, the GEO 5/5A won't be able to rest on their laurels.

Win win, you get a more motivated younger workforce and the older workforce get more talented.
Can explain what you expect GEO 5s to be doing?

In which area of the KRAs do you feel that they are not doing what they should be doing?

Again, bear in mind GEO 5s are still considered ordinary teachers at the end of the day. They are not supposed to be STs nor KPs (who are supposed to be SEOs).

Which GEO 5 is not hitting the 44h work week?

Which GEO 5 does not have to take on FTship, CCA, and committee work?

Really very interested to find out.

Is it really because teachers are lazy (not meeting the MOM mandated workweek/workload)?

Or is it because the work culture is toxic, where everyone is expected to work for free, provide free labour on top of the legal 44h work week?

Or is there something wrong with the KRAs?

Or is the system broken because the paygrade and appointment are no longer in sync?
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  #9745 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2023, 10:54 PM
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How does experience matter if I see the complaints over here are that the older teachers on geo 5/5A are doing the minimum to get by? As I see it as well, the majority of the complaints from younger teachers are the slower pace of promotion and increment. We can't change the priority of the education budget but we can make trade-off to improve morale as a whole.
In this instance, staff on geo 5/5A should have mentoring roles to impart their experience to younger teachers in a positive working culture, with measurable KPI to take this effort into account.
You do realise that the duty of providing mentoring, falls under the job description of senior teachers and supervisors, right?

A GEO 5, is an ordinary teacher, and it is also an Individual Contributor paygrade.
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  #9746 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2023, 01:21 AM
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Just hearsay tt my colleague got pb A for 3 years in a row. Is tt even possible???
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  #9747 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2023, 05:59 AM
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Just hearsay tt my colleague got pb A for 3 years in a row. Is tt even possible???
Why not, if the school ranking panel is able to justify against the KRAs of the subgrade of rhe officer, vis-a-vis others in the same subgrade?


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  #9748 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2023, 07:33 AM
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One of the main grouses here is the lack of faster promotion opportunities that the older generation used to enjoy. This can result in dissatisfaction of younger teachers. Will it help to manage out older teachers who are doing minimum but already hitting their salary ceiling? Manage out meaning puting them on PIP for example.
This will not only motivate the younger workforce to know there's room for their progression but also, the GEO 5/5A won't be able to rest on their laurels.

Win win, you get a more motivated younger workforce and the older workforce get more talented.
Doing the minimum means doing what's expected of their level. Why would someone who does what's expected need to be on PIP?
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  #9749 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2023, 09:31 AM
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Can explain what you expect GEO 5s to be doing?

In which area of the KRAs do you feel that they are not doing what they should be doing?

Again, bear in mind GEO 5s are still considered ordinary teachers at the end of the day. They are not supposed to be STs nor KPs (who are supposed to be SEOs).

Which GEO 5 is not hitting the 44h work week?

Which GEO 5 does not have to take on FTship, CCA, and committee work?

Really very interested to find out.

Is it really because teachers are lazy (not meeting the MOM mandated workweek/workload)?

Or is it because the work culture is toxic, where everyone is expected to work for free, provide free labour on top of the legal 44h work week?

Or is there something wrong with the KRAs?

Or is the system broken because the paygrade and appointment are no longer in sync?
Hmmm, actually you're not wrong in describing the fact that most GEO5 are still fulfilling the basic requirements.

But if we were to go deeper into what the younger officers are unhappy about, we gotta talk history and math.

In the past GEO3s and 4s can easily promote within 3-4 years by fulfilling basic requirements at their grade. However for now by only doing the baseline work, promotion can only occur within 7-8 years (although guys may experience a shorter wait).

This also means that in the past, officers can reach GEO5 earlier. The cumulative wait for current officers (as they progress from GEO3 to 5) will be longer by about 5-10 years.

For current officers to progress faster, they will need to go beyond their baseline work. Volunteer for events. Initiate and lead for certain projects. Such things were probably not required as much in the past. Hence now most GEO3 and 4 are working beyond their scope. To some extent, some of these work may have been pushed down by the GEO5s who have already attained a comfortable salary. Why would they still need to go beyond their scope when they have already reached their max grade?

Hence the trend of many GEO5 rejecting and pushing extra workload downwards started. In the past, officers can hit GEO5 as early as 35 years old, and hit the ceiling in their 40s. Now...probably gotta add 10 years to each number.

Actually there's an even more worrying trend now. The vicious cycle of resignations within the GEO3 and 4 has forced GEO5 officers to take on more roles and a lot of them are unhappy about it, also leading to more GEO5 "retiring early". And there are hardly any replacements for all of these GEO3 to 5 who are leaving.

And the official message from people above is still

"Oh your school staff strength is still healthy"
"Oh your school can still afford to cut manpower"
"Just merge two low ability classes let one teacher teach"
"Your workload is still below the official threshold, can still take one more class"
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  #9750 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2023, 09:55 AM
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Just hearsay tt my colleague got pb A for 3 years in a row. Is tt even possible???
Some young officers are more than capable of working at KP level despite their age, and are excelling in all their stretch assignments or even internal appointments. Too bad the average promotion rate does not adequately account for this. It seems like age is the main thing determining one's subgrade.

Yes, the panel can review CEP, and probably did for the 3x A officer, but it takes a few years for the promotion rate to respond to a CEP review.
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