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  #9671 (permalink)  
Old 23-11-2023, 09:44 PM
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The data here is likely skewed in a very similar way to the Graduate Employment Surveys and related salary surveys. Reporting bias. Higher achievers have a higher than average tendency to respond. The sample size is tiny away, how is it possible to assume that a thread on salary.sg is representative of any significant part of the service?

Trust me, there are a lot of people stuck unfairly at GEO3 that are more than able to function as a full-fledged teacher and contributor to the school community. Sure, they're not OYEA/PAT calibre, but they're way beyond BTs now.
You dismiss the sample size here that's based on self reporting and your counter example is `trust me bro'. How is that any different?

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  #9672 (permalink)  
Old 23-11-2023, 09:45 PM
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You dismiss the sample size here that's based on self reporting and your counter example is `trust me bro'. How is that any different?
Look around you. In your own school.

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  #9673 (permalink)  
Old 23-11-2023, 10:22 PM
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8 Years No Promotion - I think if so long still can't promote, can reflect a bit? Think usually there is something not quite right one lah about the officer. Tbh, usually these officers can't see their problem, or refuse to admit it, which actually is the root of all evil and why they are stuck.

The Market Spoilers - Don't be so entitled about promotions and stuff. And to label others as "market spoilers" is v childish. Maybe you don't want to invest your heart into the work, but srsly don't brandish someone else who is willing to do so negatively. At the end of the day, their hard work touches lives and benefits our students, why so salty as an adult?

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  #9674 (permalink)  
Old 23-11-2023, 11:12 PM
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I'm not any of the previous posters, but I just thought that I should put forth some observations in the last 2 decades or so.

10-20 years ago, spending 8 years in GEO3 is almost unheard of unless some glaring mistakes have been committed. Most officers will sail through promotions smoothly with just average C grades. This made the job a lot more attractive to fresh grads, and competitive enough to reduce job hops and resignations, and hence, reduce talent drain. Since there was a demand, people passed the interviews easily. Hiring was increased by:

- Rewarding fresh hires with lump sums
- Attracting midcareers
- Faster promotions
- Creating new higher appointments (the "newly developed" ST track was quickly occupied and saturated by officers or even ex-KPs within a few years)

Eventually this created another possible problem - too many people obtaining higher grades and appointments too quickly. These people are now the late Gen X who are GEO5s, or even STs and KPs. Since there is no brutal "termination" guideline (similar to the whole public service), many of these people hit their ceilings or get to attain high appointments quickly. Some resort to just coasting comfortably. Some older ones may delegate work downwards to younger hires to "groom them for more recognition and faster promotions".

Don't misunderstand. If we look at some of the previous posts, not all KPs are bad examples. But many who earn respect are usually the real hard workers or good managers. Your RO, usually a KP, also does play a role in determining your progression/promotion rate. They need to help you fight, and the SLs also need to agree with their proposal.

Nowadays, it seems common to take many years for just 1 promotion, even when no major mistakes have been committed. The big picture is probably guiding whoever is in control to "pull apart the bell curve" so that it doesn't get overly skewed to the right. They do not want the same phenomenon to repeat itself, to further saturate the system by:

- Greatly reducing recruitment
- Slowing promotion
- Limiting KPship or their progression
- "Encouraging" secondment to other sectors (and hopefully the officer will job hop and reduce numbers)
- Cut/tighten increments (doing it since COVID is a smart and "timely" move)
- Processing resignations more quickly

Just like how some of you have used analogies of student performance - its like how much more difficult national exams have become in recent years. Some feel that the bar needs to keep getting raised to differentiate ability and talent further.

The older Gens were "lucky" in a way - joined at a good time with high demand, fast promotions, great increments and adjustments with just average performance.

The younger Gens lost out more - overworked much but hardly any tangible returns or recognition. Bad timing, bad luck.

Technically, no one is wrong or at fault. Looking at the big picture again, certain sectors have had their own rise and fall. The tech sector is one of the best examples in recent years. As adults, everyone just has to decide which career choice is best for ourselves, especially if you're "unlucky".

Interesting fact as well - for Budget 2023, Defence is still allocated the highest budget. Education has fallen to 3rd place and overtaken by Healthcare.

Feel free to form your own opinions from these.


I am Gen Y. I worked my ass off for 4 years in a toxic place where many young gen Y officers were striving to get ahead. I initially asked myself why I did not get a KP position after getting Bs and C+(promotion year). I blamed the Gen X everyday. but I came to learn that if my heart is always where promotions and positions are, i will become bitterly disppointed each time during promotion time. i decided to focus on why i joined teaching - it was the kids. I left the toxic sch to join another sch. the receiving P appreciated my hard work and made me a SH. then when the 2nd sch started to get toxic because of some HODs, I decided to leave because my focus did not align with those toxic people. I left during open posting to find another P who will appreciate me.

in summary
1. my heart should be with the kids. Our job impacts their lives.
2. the impact on the kids is visible to all.
3. Do not keep expecting promotion. It will come most unexpectedly
4. Do not focus on what i are doing only, look at others for inspiration. It is easy to talk about my own contributions, but not about others. Motivate yourself.
5. The KRA is a guide. Not a Salvation document for promotion

I am blessed but I also recognise that I need to work hard and act to ensure that I do not suffer. I move schools to protect myself and find like-minded people. No place is perfect... if I have to bend my principles and values to adapt, I will not stay. I will not join toxicity. stay true to your job, be there for the kids, then aspire to what you want to or can achieve.


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  #9675 (permalink)  
Old 24-11-2023, 10:01 AM
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Look around you. In your own school.
I only had 1 person who was geo3 for 8 years. Frankly he deserved to be stuck. Whines about his delayed promotion but always do half assed job whenever he is given something to do
Then dare to say that he is over worked. Guy deserved his D grade.

So, GEO3 people who stay there for a long time are truly bottom of the barrel teachers.
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  #9676 (permalink)  
Old 24-11-2023, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am Gen Y. I worked my ass off for 4 years in a toxic place where many young gen Y officers were striving to get ahead. I initially asked myself why I did not get a KP position after getting Bs and C+(promotion year). I blamed the Gen X everyday. but I came to learn that if my heart is always where promotions and positions are, i will become bitterly disppointed each time during promotion time. i decided to focus on why i joined teaching - it was the kids. I left the toxic sch to join another sch. the receiving P appreciated my hard work and made me a SH. then when the 2nd sch started to get toxic because of some HODs, I decided to leave because my focus did not align with those toxic people. I left during open posting to find another P who will appreciate me.

in summary
1. my heart should be with the kids. Our job impacts their lives.
2. the impact on the kids is visible to all.
3. Do not keep expecting promotion. It will come most unexpectedly
4. Do not focus on what i are doing only, look at others for inspiration. It is easy to talk about my own contributions, but not about others. Motivate yourself.
5. The KRA is a guide. Not a Salvation document for promotion

I am blessed but I also recognise that I need to work hard and act to ensure that I do not suffer. I move schools to protect myself and find like-minded people. No place is perfect... if I have to bend my principles and values to adapt, I will not stay. I will not join toxicity. stay true to your job, be there for the kids, then aspire to what you want to or can achieve.

Agree that KRA is a guide. How many years have you been in service?


Primary School English Grammar and Vocabulary Drills
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SG Bus Timing App
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Bursa Stocks Android App - check share prices
Bursa Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
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SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
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  #9677 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2023, 09:40 PM
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I only had 1 person who was geo3 for 8 years. Frankly he deserved to be stuck. Whines about his delayed promotion but always do half assed job whenever he is given something to do
Then dare to say that he is over worked. Guy deserved his D grade.

So, GEO3 people who stay there for a long time are truly bottom of the barrel teachers.
see, there's something kinda weird about this, because yes, we all do agree that such people should remain stuck...

but what about people who get consecutive C+ or B grades, but are ALSO stuck?

then some other guy's post mentioned "oh it's because limited CEP"

this is all rather contradicting in the end isn't it?

there does seem to be some truth to the fact that promotions are slowing down a lot and "low CEP" is often used as a common reason
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  #9678 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2023, 11:34 PM
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see, there's something kinda weird about this, because yes, we all do agree that such people should remain stuck...

but what about people who get consecutive C+ or B grades, but are ALSO stuck?

then some other guy's post mentioned "oh it's because limited CEP"

this is all rather contradicting in the end isn't it?

there does seem to be some truth to the fact that promotions are slowing down a lot and "low CEP" is often used as a common reason
Yup, it's common enough for decent performing teachers (C+ and occasional B) to be stuck at GEO3 for 4 to 6 years. And it's very jarring and demoralising to see some officers fly from GEO3 to 4 to 5 within 6 years total. Are such officers actually three times better than the others?
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  #9679 (permalink)  
Old 26-11-2023, 12:11 AM
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Yup, it's common enough for decent performing teachers (C+ and occasional B) to be stuck at GEO3 for 4 to 6 years. And it's very jarring and demoralising to see some officers fly from GEO3 to 4 to 5 within 6 years total. Are such officers actually three times better than the others?
wait till you see those 6 years to seo1. consecutive years from 4 to 5, then seo1.
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  #9680 (permalink)  
Old 26-11-2023, 09:58 AM
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Actually the solution would be to double the ranks for Geos. So it goes from GEO3 to GEO8. This would also make the salary range within each level to be much tighter.

That way, the human brain can get that short burst of pride at getting promoted and helps to smoothen progression over their 30 year career.

Nothing would change fundamentally but it helps to trick that little reptile part of our brain that there's some form of career progress.
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