Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by LostHOD

Suggest you also do proper research.

$7K is the max assuming he is not a HOD or a senior teacher. He will remain at 1A3 where his maximum pay at $7K will stagnate till he retires. (He may be promoted to SEO in his 40s or 50s depending on time norm.)

I agree with previous poster. This amount is not accurate

To facilitate said research…

Originally Posted by Unregistered

let's just get back to what this forum is doing here at salary.sg shall we?
I'm a dip ed BT of 1 semester btw.

GEO 1 (Untrained): ? (Untrained non-graduate)
GEO 1 (Trained): 1600 - 2730 (Trained non-graduate)
GEO 2 (Untrained): ? 2000 - 4340 (Untrained graduate)
GEO 2 (Trained): 2538 - 4500 (Trained graduate)
GEO 3: 3515 -5616
GEO4: 4545-7271
GEO5: 4903-7845 (max salary grade for standard teacher)
SEO1: 5651-9064 (min. LH/SH/ST)
SEO2: ? 7236-9288 (+9%?) (min. HOD/LT)
SEO3: ? 8748-11232 (+9%?) (min. VP/MT)

My calculations for hypothetical teacher who left 14 years ago at GEO1A2 (GEO4), drawing 4.7k… chances are would have hit GEO5 by now, with quite a good chance of taking home above 7k. Really depends on annual performance though, which would affect annual increment.

Very hard to estimate progression if assumed KP or ST role. If we assume the officer made SEO1 along the way, maybe $150 annual increment + about $500 from two promotion increments… maybe around $7.5k? 8?

Again, caveat - I don't really fully understand how the increments are calculated. It's also really impossible to guess what would have happened in the years since 2003.

I have younger GEO colleagues who have not previously been KPs. I've not really asked but think they're around GEO3/4. Also haven't asked if they're scholars, but I don't think so (possibly teaching award holders, though from what I've heard I don't think those are especially fast-tracked).

I *think* your CEP needs to be at SEO1 level, but you don't necessarily need to there yet (I applied in as GEO as well) or have held KP appointment. Unfortunately CEP is not known to officers so it might be difficult to gauge eligibility.

Ultimately, if you are interested in a particular role, it probably won't hurt to apply. Having held a KP position would help, but the main challenge is really to convince interviewers (also prospective bosses/supervisors) that you have the skillset for the job, ideally supported by your previous work experiences.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi HQ Worker,

In your experience in HQ, have you seen or worked with any non-scholar officers who are GEO 3 or GEO 4? Is it true that one must be at least at KP or SEO1 before one can consider to apply to HQ?

Originally Posted by HQ Worker

To facilitate said research…



My calculations for hypothetical teacher who left 14 years ago at GEO1A2 (GEO4), drawing 4.7k… chances are would have hit GEO5 by now, with quite a good chance of taking home above 7k. Really depends on annual performance though, which would affect annual increment.

Very hard to estimate progression if assumed KP or ST role. If we assume the officer made SEO1 along the way, maybe $150 annual increment + about $500 from two promotion increments… maybe around $7.5k? 8?

Again, caveat - I don't really fully understand how the increments are calculated. It's also really impossible to guess what would have happened in the years since 2003.

I think you have some fundamental misunderstanding on how the whole system works.

Average performers do not reach the cap of the teaching track in the first place. In any level, salary will reduce significantly once they cross the mid-point. As one gets closer to the salary cap, it is very difficult to get any increment unless the performance rating is top notch.

The above poster is right in the sense that 6.5k is likely where the hypothetical teacher will land as a GEO5 or SEO1. Of course you can argue if he is high potential in the management track he can make more as a VP or Principal, but that's not what the original guy was asking.

Thanks for the input. I'm not approaching the cap yet so will have to defer to those more knowledgeable! Just to confirm, though - there's really no/minimal annual increment even as a C-grader when you're near the ceiling? How about C+?

So that's something to "look forward" to in the future…

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think you have some fundamental misunderstanding on how the whole system works.

Average performers do not reach the cap of the teaching track in the first place. In any level, salary will reduce significantly once they cross the mid-point. As one gets closer to the salary cap, it is very difficult to get any increment unless the performance rating is top notch.

The above poster is right in the sense that 6.5k is likely where the hypothetical teacher will land as a GEO5 or SEO1. Of course you can argue if he is high potential in the management track he can make more as a VP or Principal, but that's not what the original guy was asking.

Originally Posted by HQ Worker

Thanks for the input. I'm not approaching the cap yet so will have to defer to those more knowledgeable! Just to confirm, though - there's really no/minimal annual increment even as a C-grader when you're near the ceiling? How about C+?

So that's something to "look forward" to in the future…

From my own observation and what some older birds tell me, it is a gradual curve instead of yes/no increase. For e.g.slightly above mid point then a C+ can in theory get some increase although this will be lower then normal, but as you get nearer to cap you might need a B+ or more to get the same small increase.

Let's say you are the typical C- to B- range of performance, there will be no increase when you are close to the cap. However every 3-5 years, MOE will decide to increase the range for each level, so if you happen to catch the year when they increase you might get a little increase for 1-2 years before nothing again.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

From my own observation and what some older birds tell me, it is a gradual curve instead of yes/no increase. For e.g.slightly above mid point then a C+ can in theory get some increase although this will be lower then normal, but as you get nearer to cap you might need a B+ or more to get the same small increase.

Let's say you are the typical C- to B- range of performance, there will be no increase when you are close to the cap. However every 3-5 years, MOE will decide to increase the range for each level, so if you happen to catch the year when they increase you might get a little increase for 1-2 years before nothing again.

There are no B+ or B- grades in MOE.

Hi all, I have received notification for an interview after the last GEO recruitment exercise in March. Anyone here in the same boat as me? Also, anyone here care to share how best to succeed in the coming GEO interview? Thank you in advance!

[lavenderqq]

Hi fellow teachers,

I have a question that i hope some of you can help to answer...

Does it make sense for a GEO3 officer to be given the role of a HOD? Officer has been stuck on GEO3 scale for 4 years. Recently has been asked to take on HOD role in school.

Will the extra responsibilities of a HOD necessarily lead to a quick promotion from GEO3 to GEO5 perhaps?

Isn't it only fair that the extra responsibilities and workload lead to a faster promotion? Otherwise, whats the point of having the extra responsibilities if the payscale is going to be the same as fellow peers/or even lower?

Hope to hear some stories of fellow teachers.

My 2¢... Not an expert, but making educated guesses based on observations thus far. Addressing a few specific queries/comments raised in the original post.

1) Does it make sense for a GEO3 officer to be given the role of a HOD?
Sure, if the school has a need and officer has been identified as capable enough to take on the duties. I would want to clarify if the officer is meant to be acting HOD or to officially take on the appointment, though - there is a difference (to elaborate later).

2) Officer has been stuck on GEO3 scale for 4 years.
This is interesting - I feel that's pretty long for an officer with HOD-level CEP. This is just a guess, though. I'm not high up enough to know the norms.

3) Will the extra responsibilities of a HOD necessarily lead to a quick promotion from GEO3 to GEO5 perhaps?
I think it's quite probable. To be formally appointed as HOD, you will need to have a minimum CEP - that should effectively increase the speed of promotion. If officer is being appointed acting HOD with the intent of officially taking on the role later, the school might be planning to raise the CEP to the prerequisite level before sending for interview. This will also lead to faster promotion.

4) Otherwise, whats the point of having the extra responsibilities if the payscale is going to be the same as fellow peers/or even lower?
At the very minimum, a GEO3 doing HOD work should be appraised very favourably as compared against other GEO3s. Almost confirmed B grade (possibly A, though that's really super rare). Though CEP is assigned/raised separately from performance grade, there will generally be a correlation and I would expect a corresponding increase in CEP/promotion speed to follow, if the job is done well.

--

This is of course just the pragmatic career progression aspect of things. There's lots of other stuff to consider (officer's temperament, department dynamics, etc.) but I'm sure they can assess that on their own.

At the end of the day, in their shoes, I'd like some clarity on whether I am to officially take up the role, or if it's only an internal appointment (and if so, whether an official appointment is to be expected). I've heard some horror stories where the acting HOD is never formally appointed and someone else is eventually brought in to take up the role. Then again, in those cases the officer probably did not perform to the school's expectations.

All the best.

Originally Posted by lavenderqq

Hi fellow teachers,

I have a question that i hope some of you can help to answer...

Does it make sense for a GEO3 officer to be given the role of a HOD? Officer has been stuck on GEO3 scale for 4 years. Recently has been asked to take on HOD role in school.

Will the extra responsibilities of a HOD necessarily lead to a quick promotion from GEO3 to GEO5 perhaps?

Isn't it only fair that the extra responsibilities and workload lead to a faster promotion? Otherwise, whats the point of having the extra responsibilities if the payscale is going to be the same as fellow peers/or even lower?

Hope to hear some stories of fellow teachers.