I would think talking to your RO to know your strength and area for improvement. Show your willingness to take on projects to lead at level, and be part of a school based project. Those are traits of a GEO 4 officer.

Have a male colleague got GEO 4 just this year. Entered service in 2013. And he has received some Bs..[/QUOTE]

Maybe I should talk to my RO again during mid year review. Had a pre work review in March and when I questioned, RO said don’t know. Don’t know about CEP and why. Just said some officers take longer and it’s not in the school’s choice. RO said during year end review, everything is good and fine. I finish all I need to do, complete assigned task ahead of time etc etc. Still a C.

Then went for 1 to 1 chat with P as it’s a requirement in my school to see the P once a year for chat. Asked about it and said time factor and I’m just at GEO 3 for like 4 years. Just said C is a good grade. Ask me to just wait patiently. Just said cos I started out with higher salary etc so could be a reason.

Then we see some SH and HOD who was promoted to SEO 1 and only manage to finish teaching 5.5 to 6 chapters out of 16 chapters when students in Sec 3. Sometimes really wonder how these people move up.

Oh well.... sigh... At least I now know my CEP sucks.

The issue with MOE is that there are too many scholars. One of my friends who is a scholar went from school (2yrs) > HQ (3yrs) > school (2 yrs) > HOD.

And then MOE doesn’t rotate HODs as often too. Like some of the schools i know have the same HOD for like 10-20 years. So if you think about it, it tough for promotions in some sense because HODs don’t want a ‘pay drop’ to be ST etc.

Just keep moving! Remember the education is about moulding the future of our nation, so do your best for our kids! Thanks for that too! :)

VP Admin can promote to full Principal?

Don't think so; P has to do teachery stuffs also. Anyway, don't think they are in need short of VP to promote to P via the Teaching Leadership track.

The role of VP admin handles all the administrative work, and less the teaching portfolio.

Vp admin is also under geo track or mx scheme?

Super scale? I see most admin VP are seconded from or retired from mindef. Usually Ltcs and ex co

I see. Speaking of which, perhaps. But my current VPA is neither..... These people good life...... after SAF get lump sum still got a VPA post for them....


Btw, do CEP include all your results from PSLE all the way to Uni (bachelors)? Cos I think some said masters have no value.

Reason why I think so is cos since MOE has all our academic records anyways.

Maybe from degree? I think most farmers would have a generic one. I don't think it is tailored individually for non-scholars.

Anyway, i think the masters point is quite true in civil service - helps in long run progression and development, but not so at the start.

I have a ex-teacher who did a MOE Overseas TS, and he didn't do a masters for his subject because he wanted to 'teach' quickly. Fast forward 7 years, he did a HQ stint and is now a HOD of his department.

Another one of my friends who has a Masters from one of world top unis in his subject, told me that NIE salary was the same as those without - he is a Teaching Local + Overseas PG scholar. I think the Ministry encourage overseas scholars to do a masters so it will help them in their long-term career progression.

MX scheme; probably no further possibility for progression within school, unless transfer to HQ.

Also its for HQ positions in professional/coporate wing like Finance etc. Most of the education portfolios are all for GEOs.

I chanced upon this forum and just wanted to rant. Had been a few lousy weeks in school:(

I joined teaching in 2004. Currently, I am a SEO for the third year. Out of my whole career, I got C+ twice when I got posted to HQ I am not a scholar but I would assume my CEP is relatively high. My P did not tell me my CEP but he did share that my CEP was the highest among all KP in the cluster (CEP of cluster is decided at the cluster level).

For those of you who are keen to pursue the leadership track, you need to have the stamina. Honestly, right now, I feel jaded because I know I will remain a KP till I retire. Work only increases. I kinda envy the GEO 5 teachers who have less responsibilities and get to go home early. My average working hours are at least 12 hours on weekdays. Most times, I need to bring work home. My current school gives me alot of responsibilities because backend SLs would know my CEP which I assume would be higher than the rest of the KPs in my current school as well. I have an advantage as well because I am a HOD and there are a number of the SHs in my school who are also SEO1. So in a way, my ranking will be on top of them due to the nature of my work. But alot of times, its just the able and willing who gets more work. The additional bonus I get from my Bs does not make me happy.

The whole promotion pathways are now stuck as there are too few vacancies and if there are, they are usually reserved for scholars. So those who are not scholars will hardly stand a chance. For those of you who have seen the list of Ps which usually comes out when P rotates schools, there are only 3 VPs who got promoted to become P. So progression for VPs are also slower.

And I would also like to share for two officers producing the same quality of work, the one with the higher CEP will be ranked above so that his promotion will be faster so that you can reach your CEP when you retire (better grade = better performance). So yes, CEP quickens your promotion and at the same time, gives you an edge for your ranking.

This really sucks... but to "hang" and not promote at geo 3 despite not committing any offences and having my hod saying I'm doing well and good. But all I get is a C cos of cep...it sucks... it reeks of unfair remuneration..

Btw...do HOds know their jobholders cep?

Thank you for your detailed explanation. It sucks to be honest that even though you didn't make a mistake... have your Hod say you are doing well and all and to get a C due to cep. Then being stuck at geo 3 ceiling again due to cep. This reeks of unfair remuneration and so much for clean wages and all.

I think you shed more light than my own hod cos when I asked... all I got was I dont know. I wonder what kind of a HOD I have. Maybe an incompetent one.

This is the harsh reality of civil service. Look beyond the recognition. On the positive side, if you are a geo3, go home punctually after sch. Don't stay back for extra lessons. Do the minimum required. Rmb, you are just a human being after all. Spend more time on what makes you happy.

This really hit home for me... in a similar position as well. Wondering whether it's really worthwhile to go on as KP...

HOD by right should definitely know what is discussed at the ranking panel. Such a response indicates... either really forgotten already (!?!) or he doesn't want to tell you? Either way, don't think it's fair to you.

If you're at a stage where you're not too concerned about ruffling feathers, you could consider asking VP about the situation instead...

I went direct to P during the 1 to 1 session with P that all staff must go. P said I didn't have any C- or D. Is cos time in geo 3 too short... I just finish 4 years this April in geo 3. P also said Male starting pay higher and I finish my masters so starting already much higher so can hit ceiling... think also a bit BS.

I gathered that my cep is low...

Ya... as long no official remedial or what not... I just leave... since hit ceiling.. next year also no have merit increment... do also is like do for free... might as well go home koon.

Super wasting my time in sch...

Hi. This is the jaded KP earlier.

In the system for 15 years. I have 1 C, 2 C+, 1A, 11 Bs, throughout my span of career. The C was in my BT year. It was the default grade. So those KPs telling you that 'Oh you are just promoted, so you will get default C for this year ranking'. It is NOT true. During those years when I was just promoted, I never got a default C. I got Bs. Even in HQ when I received my SEO, I was given a C+. So yes, CEP is important and thats why during KP ranking at cluster, some Ps will fight tooth and nail for their KPs.

Sometimes, I feel that my CEP is my bane. It opens up opportunities which others do not have. :( But its a vicious cycle. More responsibilities = more work and if work is good = more responsibilities. And yet, I will never be promoted further because I am not scholar.

do teachers get paid extra for having a master's?

what is the starting salary for UT, FCH local male - 3.8k, for entry to NIE? can anyhow share please?

considering if i should do a masters before going pursuing a career in teaching! :)

What division were u in? Is it much harder to get a good grade in hq?

Which division were u in? I thought it's harder to get good grades in HQ. I was getting Bs all along in school but got Cs when I joined HQ. Felt rather demoralised joining HQ.

Almost definitely. I suspect pretty much everyone coming to HQ used to get B/C+ in school... and once they're there, they'll get ranked against each other. It's like all your primary school top students congregating in an elite school... some will be surprised to find they're no longer the top students.

That said, I found that working alongside motivated colleagues is often a reward in its own right.

For masters usually $175 more.

That's what I got and I got 2nd class only.

I think FCH and Male and masters..
4k easily. Cos that what I got was about 3.9k 2nd class only..

I appreciate your response so far. That default C thing was told to me by previous P. Maybe I have got lousy SLs and ROs. Cos I know and hear cases to know its not true.

Can I ask if you know how the cep is calculated apart from performance?

I think your performance super good... for me in sch... no opportunity given. So can only just do what is given... since now I know my position better... I think I know what I need to focus on.

You are a 2:1 with Masters for 3.9? I know some civil service in general doesn’t pay for masters if the job doesn’t ask for it. Maybe MOE is different since the higher knowledge the better for the education service? Haha! Or maybe they count it as a year of work experience.

Thanks for the info.

No. 2:2. Lol...

3600++ then when get masters is 175 then when I 9 month into contract moe got pay adjustment so about 3.9

i see, thanks for the information :)

I joined when moe is actively recruiting... now they have excess... dunno if they are still go generous....

Hi,

I'd just like to check if anyone has made the comparison between IP and non-IP heads (e.g. CCE, Year Heads) etc.

Will the workload of one be considerably more compared to the other?

What about in terms of progression?

Is it common from an IP head to jump to a non-IP post and vice versa, or will it pretty much remain the same for the rest of one's career?

In terms of progression, there is no difference between IP /Non IP role.
In terms of workload, Non-IP carry more workload because you still need to support IP heads in their work ( students are the focus..remember).. and also do your own portfolio.
There are some benefits though in the Non-IP side.. no reportees.. this means..less paper work (EPMS)/ file check/vetting paper etc.. In terms of preparing yourself for further progression, non-ip role provides you with more exposure.. because you are already familar with what they do in IP...

Actually, I was lucky to have a boss who saw the potential in me and gave me alot of opportunities. I went from a normal EO to a HOD straight. I wasnt a coordinator, LH or SH in between. After HQ, I went to another school. He checks on me often if I am alright. I told him that I am considering changing schools when my 3 years in my current school is up, he told me he will ask around, just let him know when to ask around. For my ex-boss, when he says he will help, he will really help. For that, I am grateful to him. :)

To answer your question on CEP and performance, I would say they are related. For normal EOs, you need to have good performance before your boss decides to raise your CEP (Otherwise its at default GEO5). There is no fixed formula. For some schools, its the RO who suggests the raise in CEP. For some schools, its the SLs. For some schools, it needs to be cleared by the panel. For some schools, the P has the final say. All schools work differently but someone needs to trigger the discussion to raise your CEP.

If you are a scholar, your CEP will be different. For some scholars (not those normal teaching scholarships), their CEP would be that of Supts which is pre-assigned by MOE, unless the school deems otherwise.

Hope this helps.


Jaded KP

Does any of you know the allowance that a GEO officer gets for assuming LH/SH/HOD role?

Only the AYH and YH are likely to have no reportees. SH/HOD of other non IP like CCE, aesthetic etc will still be an RO. From what I can see, it is easier for the IP heads to showcase the effectiveness of their programmes- through results. Non-IP...harder. I see the YHs in my school fire fightimg everyday. Worst of all the heads. Whether or not their contributions are recognised depends on what the SLs value.

Super good bosses you have. Mine cant even less by example. Cant even answer your doubts and all.. sigh...

Finished NIE PGDE in 2016.
2017 perf grade: C (default) & cohort promotion to GEO3
2018 perf grade: C+
2019 perf grade: C+

Assuming I've C or C+ again, when is my next promotion?

Male? There is no hard and fast rule saying that you will definitely be promoted after getting a number if consecutive C+ or B. Could be 2020 or 2021 to geo 4, depending on whether you have proven your capability to take on greater responsibilities. When it comes, it comes.

Not just your cep. You are a SEO, and you will need to take on the responsibilities to meet your KRA. Did your SLs tell you explicitly that you are no longer in the runway for VP?

If you are really jaded, then giving up the title and going back to geo5 might be a way out, provided that you are willing to take a paycut and bear with all the questioning.

Sometimes, being too long in the service made you forget why you wanted to teach in the first place. My advice is, don't be a headless housefly. Know what to take up and speak with your RO.

I feel very jaded. 7 years as GEO3 and at ceiling and dont know when I will get promoted to GEO4. Wanted to look for job elsewhere but everywhere the salary is lower. Most other places in govt sector needs assistant director or manager role to hit this sort of salary. Feel so stuck and demoralised.

Try applying for open posting. Either get a HQ stint or change school. This will help you move faster as well since you will be changing bosses.

What do you teach? To be honest, I think it's difficult for teachers to change career and expect same pay. Our "skills" and "knowledge" does not command that much in the real working world.