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  #1861 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:17 PM
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Sorry just checking, although ranking is already over, how long does it take before the performance grade is set in stone (by April next year)?

I know there is still a period of time where SLs and KPs can still edit the performance grades (usually downgrades); just wondering how long it'll take.
By now, they would have been endorsed by supt.

Some schools might not be that opened to disclose your perf perf grade during year end review, but the schools that I know practise telling the grade so that there will not be surprise/shock in April the following year.

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  #1862 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:50 AM
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By now, they would have been endorsed by supt.

Some schools might not be that opened to disclose your perf perf grade during year end review, but the schools that I know practise telling the grade so that there will not be surprise/shock in April the following year.
I heard of schools or ROs telling the job holders the grade. But if you ask me, my school or most schools are not open to telling the job holders the grade cos they donít want the job holders to contest.

Thus by April, when the PB grade and quantum is given, they really lan lan suck thumb Liao.

Should really make it compulsory to disclose the grade before the teachers go on holidays.

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  #1863 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:22 PM
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Contesting can be done when you get it in April as well. Don't think that's really a factor in the decision making.

I suspect it's more that even after the school's (and cluster's) endorsement, things could possibly change as everything gets centralised at HR (though very unlikely). So if there's no real advantage telling ppl ahead of the official notification, why do so?

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I heard of schools or ROs telling the job holders the grade. But if you ask me, my school or most schools are not open to telling the job holders the grade cos they donít want the job holders to contest.

Thus by April, when the PB grade and quantum is given, they really lan lan suck thumb Liao.

Should really make it compulsory to disclose the grade before the teachers go on holidays.

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  #1864 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:25 PM
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I heard of schools or ROs telling the job holders the grade. But if you ask me, my school or most schools are not open to telling the job holders the grade cos they donít want the job holders to contest.

Thus by April, when the PB grade and quantum is given, they really lan lan suck thumb Liao.

Should really make it compulsory to disclose the grade before the teachers go on holidays.
It is the correct practice not to tell. Disclosing the grade now or next year makes no difference. Rather if it is announced now, it may ruin the mood for holidays?

Contesting opens up floodgates where HR and the Supt scrutinised an EO's performance. So it may or may not be good.

At the end of the day, ranking is relative. With same performance, you may get B in a school where teachers are not motivated but C in a school where everyone chiong.
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  #1865 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:35 PM
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Hi all, I need some advice on this. But before that, I wish to just mention that I am not targeting any particular groups in Singapore.

Apparently in the recent years, many of the older students and alumni have recruited many of my current school students to a church. Some teachers actually do know of this because some students have been using it as a reason not to come for Saturday activities or camps. Of course, we usually warn the students that it is not a valid reason.

However, I do have greater concern for the influences their seniors or friends are having on them.

1. Our government allows religious freedom. But at such a young age, do they really know the purpose of religion? Or are they just fol....

this
You must be a very responsible teacher to think along these lines.

Personally, I was from a mission school almost two decades ago.

There were many who went to the same church.

I went too, for curiosity. Nope, I didn't know the purpose of churches. But that was why I went.

I think there's a line between parenting and teaching. As teachers, unless the situation is so grave (i.e., the church mentioned is actually promoting undesirable messages) it is up to parents themselves to find out what their teens are doing.

To put your mind at ease, after the period of curiosity, I decided going to church wasn't for me. It was good exposure.
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  #1866 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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I think it is a valid concern as some teens are more vulnerable to heavy peer pressure than others and may have difficulty saying no, especially after feeling like they have made a certain level of commitment (e.g. regularly being physically present church services or events, forging what feels like close friendships with people in church) yet don't really want to commit themselves to the religion itself.

But it is a sticky situation as like the original poster said, there is freedom of religion in Singapore, and therefore the extent to which a school can police the practice and the spread of religion outside of the school compound and school hours is very limited. Any actions taken by the school will be under close public scrutiny and there are many dangerous OB markers. As much as the school can accuse the church of proselytisation, the school can also be accused of curtailing freedom of religion.

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You must be a very responsible teacher to think along these lines.

Personally, I was from a mission school almost two decades ago.

There were many who went to the same church.

I went too, for curiosity. Nope, I didn't know the purpose of churches. But that was why I went.

I think there's a line between parenting and teaching. As teachers, unless the situation is so grave (i.e., the church mentioned is actually promoting undesirable messages) it is up to parents themselves to find out what their teens are doing.

To put your mind at ease, after the period of curiosity, I decided going to church wasn't for me. It was good exposure.
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  #1867 (permalink)  
Old 13-11-2019, 02:02 PM
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I think it is a valid concern as some teens are more vulnerable to heavy peer pressure than others and may have difficulty saying no, especially after feeling like they have made a certain level of commitment (e.g. regularly being physically present church services or events, forging what feels like close friendships with people in church) yet don't really want to commit themselves to the religion itself.

But it is a sticky situation as like the original poster said, there is freedom of religion in Singapore, and therefore the extent to which a school can police the practice and the spread of religion outside of the school compound and school hours is very limited. Any actions taken by the school will be under close public scrutiny and there are many dangerous OB markers. As much as the school can accuse the church of proselytisation, the school can also be accused of curtailing freedom of religion.
Hi, I am the original poster. I'm quite thankful to everyone for providing valuable advice about such a situation, and I'm also glad that some of you also share my concerns.

In fact from here, there is actually a greater overarching concern that I have. Our country, and hence our education system, has always allowed for religious freedom, but how open is everyone (including politicians, teachers, SLs) about it? If such "sticky situations" really need to be addressed, are teachers actually allowed to openly discuss it?

We are always told not to touch on religion and LGBT issues, yet students actually already have a lot of knowledge about them, and form their own personal opinions about them. And being teachers, we lack the authority or permission to surface or even address such opinions.

Will there really be a day where our people can discuss such issues openly?
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  #1868 (permalink)  
Old 13-11-2019, 08:27 PM
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Hi, I am the original poster. I'm quite thankful to everyone for providing valuable advice about such a situation, and I'm also glad that some of you also share my concerns.

In fact from here, there is actually a greater overarching concern that I have. Our country, and hence our education system, has always allowed for religious freedom, but how open is everyone (including politicians, teachers, SLs) about it? If such "sticky situations" really need to be addressed, are teachers actually allowed to openly discuss it?

We are always told not to touch on religion and LGBT issues, yet students actually already have a lot of knowledge about them, and form their own personal opinions about them. And being teachers, we lack the authority or permission to surface or even address such opinions.

Will there really be a day where our people can discuss such issues openly?
Like many other teachers, I fundamentally support secularism in schools. However, I do not support the way that we practice secularism in schools.. by way of avoiding as much as possible to potentially offend religious entities. It almost seems like secularism is subordinate to the whims and fancies of religious entities because we are too afraid to engage in any discussion at all, no matter how potentially constructive such discussion may be.
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  #1869 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 12:30 AM
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Alright let me be the one to go into the technicalities here.

The Constitution provides that every citizen or person in the country has a constitutional right to profess, practice, or propagate his or her religious belief so long as such activities do not breach any other laws relating to public order, public health, or morality. There is no state religion. This comes with some restrictions (Jehovah Witnesses for example)

The constitution also states that 'The Government does not permit religious instruction in public schools'

With the context above, I would say your current situation where the mentioned 'peer pressure', recruitment, etc are valid concerns, however, not amounting to going against the constitution as it is not a form of 'religious instruction'

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...us-instruction

Definitely a thin line here, but I would think that unless there are any forms of 'teaching or instruction of a particular religion' in a school setting (which the school, especially religion-affiliated ones, have the responsibility to monitor this), the so-called situations, are not wrong per se, as it would fall under the constitutional right of an individual to propogate or talk freely about his/her religion (which is different from one educating or instructing about his/her particular religion). Not allowing that would then be going against the constitution on the freedom of religion

Personally, I do talk openly about religion when the timing is right (e.g. if student asks about my religion during recess when I am spending time with them). I do not believe in shunning away from topics. If you want to avoid accusations of proselytising by other people, then you have to be vigilant in whether the things that you say, will be seen as you 'giving pressure through the abuse of your power/status', or is it considered a harmless exchange of ideas. There was a previous case on this in a military setting where the subordinates feel that disobeying their superiors who were proselytising to them, could set them back and be in a disadvantageous position. But I personally think that as teachers, besides religion, we should be aware of all the things that we say or do. Because as a primary school teacher, students do look up to the teachers and it is only right that we take note of the implicit learning that takes place. If you decide to be open and not avoid the matters completely (play safe but keeping students in a cocoon method), then you must be prepared to stand your ground and justify what you are doing, since you will definitely draw flak from the many people for many various reasons (as we all know how some teachers can be very political and with multiple hidden agendas..)

So if you feel it is too sensitive, even after verifying with the legal policies etc, then you can always change the topic when conversing with students. Otherwise, I don't recall any laws in SG for teachers that we are not allowed to 'touch on religion or LGBT' issues. I believe that we should be brave to engage in such conversations, but with the ability and continual awareness, to not instruct or prescribe to our students our own point of views on the matter
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