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Unregistered 18-03-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luwb (Post 34429)
I don't usually like to comment over this forum, but, having seen this line of discussion, I will give my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I have been a private tutor for the pass 20 years and now I am running a tuition school that has more than 1,000 students. I started my career with one student some 20 years ago. I am not a MOE teacher. As a matter of fact, I applied to MOE twice and they rejected me on both occasions.

This may sound proud to u but not only they missed a good teacher, they missed me in their selection, 2 times some more. It mades u question MOE's parameter of selecting a teacher.

Teaching in a school and private tuition is TOTALY different.

Putting politics and administrative work aside, u will be given a class of 40 to teach and both parties, teachers and students, have no other option but to be put in the same class room whether they like it or not.

In private tuition, it is a willing buyer and seller market. The number of students one can solicit solely depends on yr teaching skill, charisma and parents management. All these 3 qualities are irrelevant to yr love for teaching. I am seen many teachers love to teach but they can't teach. Teaching is not in them.

To me, the ability to teach and to motivate students is a gift, one cannot attend NIE course and assume he/she can do this job well. This is the reason why a lot of great teachers eventually become private tutors. The top 3 teachers in my school is not MOE trained. As a matter of fact, the more problematic ones in my school are the MOE teachers.

If u want to take up private tuition as yr career, u must be extremely good or else the market will eat u alive as competition is too stiff.

Thanks for the insight. What you say about the MOE teacher being problematic and unable to compete in pte education sector is inevitable.

My perspective being a MOE teacher is actually very restrictive. What you can play around with is very limited - you basically execute whatever orders you recieve from the top. The mantra in the civil service is always follow SOP, give poltically correct answer, keep your head low and dun get into trouble and retire peacefully. Nobody looking for innovation, problem solving, forward thinking or living up to a challenge at all.

That was a key reason why I left MOE after less than a year while still under probation. I looked at my colleagues around me in their 40s and 50s and told myself no way I'm going to be like them and live out the rest of my live trapped in a small box with such a narrow view of the world.

Unregistered 18-03-2013 01:53 PM

Is it possible to work as a teacher and side line as a tuition teacher at the same time? Considered as moon lighting?

Unregistered 18-03-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34439)
Is it possible to work as a teacher and side line as a tuition teacher at the same time? Considered as moon lighting?

MOE has always unofficially discourage teachers from moon lighting, but because of too much vested interest it has never officially declare a ban.

All I can say is given the very long hours and OT doing admin & marking, if you still want to moonlight work will easily hit 80hrs per week. If you want to work until like that just for the extra money, there are many professions out there that can give you better pay for that kind of hours.

Unregistered 18-03-2013 05:11 PM

Not disputing the majority of what you've said (generally - if joining teaching, be prepared to retire at GEO1A3 (currently capped at $7.4k) as a teacher. Anything more would be if you really show aptitude for the job - and for the leadership track, the ability to run a department and run projects would probably count for more than just actual teaching ability.

That said, a 'Senior Teacher' is definitely not 'the same' as a 'Teacher' - yes, they usually aren't that involved in admin/leadership stuff, but the expectation is really to be secure in their teaching in the classroom, and to be able to help mentor their colleagues. Their maximum payscale is also higher (SEO1, currently capped at $8.3k). Not exactly that much higher, but it is officially recognised by MOE in terms of both jobscope and remuneration.

(In fact, it's not uncommon for HODs/SHs/LHs to convert to be an ST if they prefer focusing on classroom teaching, especially since it allows them to retain their SEO payscale.)

I don't actually know what a 'Curriculum Head' is, don't have any in my school - from what I know, MOE only recognises Level & Subject Heads, so CH might be an unofficial appointment like level coordinator? Not recognised by MOE? Then yes, extra work, no extra rewards. That said, in some schools it might actually be a stepping stone (sign that you have been identified as higher potential) - if the school has the practice of promoting from within, then these guys holding 'extra duties' are usually the ones who will be promoted next. Actual practice differs from school to school, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34426)
But ask yourself, what difference is there between a so called Curriculum Head and Senior Teacher and Teacher? None at all.

Job wise they are almost the same, the do the same teaching, teach the same number of class, have the same level of decision making power. They are all individual roles with no subordinates. There is no pay difference if you strip off wage inflation that comes with years of service. For eg. a teacher who join at 3.5k just by following general wage inflation of 4% will reach 6.3k after 15 years, the pay of a Senior Teacher. Benefit same as well.


luwb 18-03-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34439)
Is it possible to work as a teacher and side line as a tuition teacher at the same time? Considered as moon lighting?

If u think u hv what it takes, take the plunge, don't worry, become a private tutor. U will be rewarded financially. Trust me.........PM me if u need to know more.

Unregistered 18-03-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luwb (Post 34473)
If u think u hv what it takes, take the plunge, don't worry, become a private tutor. U will be rewarded financially. Trust me.........PM me if u need to know more.

I won't encourage. I've a relative teacher quitted moe some years ago and setup own shop. In red initially and now only manage to get back roughly same payscale. when factor in cpf contribution, benefits, increment, bonus etc, still lose out.

I can see time is changing now. During the last fri meet-the-parents sessions (before term break starts), the school kept reminding us not to engage private tutors and buy extra assessment books. As long as they manage to do their home works, teachers can assess and offer extra attentions. for weaker students, they've moe-sponsored resources and intervention programme.

Unregistered 19-03-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34472)
Not disputing the majority of what you've said (generally - if joining teaching, be prepared to retire at GEO1A3 (currently capped at $7.4k) as a teacher. Anything more would be if you really show aptitude for the job - and for the leadership track, the ability to run a department and run projects would probably count for more than just actual teaching ability.

That said, a 'Senior Teacher' is definitely not 'the same' as a 'Teacher' - yes, they usually aren't that involved in admin/leadership stuff, but the expectation is really to be secure in their teaching in the classroom, and to be able to help mentor their colleagues. Their maximum payscale is also higher (SEO1, currently capped at $8.3k). Not exactly that much higher, but it is officially recognised by MOE in terms of both jobscope and remuneration.

I know where you are coming from, but this is a very ops way of looking at things. You are looking at things in a very by the book junior level staff way but not from a policy and strategic perspective.

I never disputed that payscales and official job levels are different b/w Snr Teacher and Teacher. I am trying to explain to you and the rest what goes on in the mind of the policy makers. All these supposed paysclaes and job levels are just standard tricks HR pros use to market to you guys.

The biggest clue that these supposed different payscales are fake and just artificially created is the fact that the cap b/w Teacher and Snr Teacher is a mere $900 as you admit yourself. In principle, MOE could have just set the payscale for teachers to be $3000 - $8300 depending on seniority. Why create levels that overlap each other to such an extent that we end up with this comical scenario where a Snr Teacher max pay is only $900 more than a Teacher?

Another clue to this is MOE's setting of payscales. If MOE policy makers really sincerely believe that a Snr Teacher is so different and higher level than a Teacher, would they have come up with such a payscale that is almose 90% overlap with Teachers? Look at what they do, not what they say.

Mentoring juniors is kind of expected in any place, both public and private sector. This by itself does not differentiate the core job scope per se.

Quote:

(In fact, it's not uncommon for HODs/SHs/LHs to convert to be an ST if they prefer focusing on classroom teaching, especially since it allows them to retain their SEO payscale.)
Yes this is the sort of official face saving thing everyone says when they lost out in the game, i.e. I wana go back teaching. Some are probably sincerely passionate about teaching and really want to go back, but I know for sure many others who lost out and got thrown back unwillingly. I cannot reveal my sources, but I personally know of at least 2 SH and 1 HOD who are like that.

Am I saying these people are bad eggs? No, not at all. They just happen to lost out in the game and got the "cold palace" treatment. In fact I applaud MOE for actually giving an avenue where these people can retire gracefully despite losing the competition. The private sector is much more brutal and losing politics can be followed by an unceremonious booting out or public humiliation.

Quote:

I don't actually know what a 'Curriculum Head' is, don't have any in my school - from what I know, MOE only recognises Level & Subject Heads, so CH might be an unofficial appointment like level coordinator? Not recognised by MOE? Then yes, extra work, no extra rewards. That said, in some schools it might actually be a stepping stone (sign that you have been identified as higher potential) - if the school has the practice of promoting from within, then these guys holding 'extra duties' are usually the ones who will be promoted next. Actual practice differs from school to school, of course.
Yes this CH thing is still being piloted in only few schools. My MOE source tells me that they have done a review and concluded that the current teaching track is still not cut fine enough to ensure frequent "promotion". He suspects that MOE might further fine cut the existing pay sclaes and job levels by creating another 1 or 2 fake "promotions" and this CH thing seems to be the direction they will go in the future.

Unregistered 19-03-2013 02:57 PM

you piece of shiat to look down on teacher

ROFL kana reject by moe sour grape isit???? snr teacher rank is higher than VP ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34501)
I know where you are coming from, but this is a very ops way of looking at things. You are looking at things in a very by the book junior level staff way but not from a policy and strategic perspective.

I never disputed that payscales and official job levels are different b/w Snr Teacher and Teacher. I am trying to explain to you and the rest what goes on in the mind of the policy makers. All these supposed paysclaes and job levels are just standard tricks HR pros use to market to you guys.

The biggest clue that these supposed different payscales are fake and just artificially created is the fact that the cap b/w Teacher and Snr Teacher is a mere $900 as you admit yourself. In principle, MOE could have just set the payscale for teachers to be $3000 - $8300 depending on seniority. Why create levels that overlap each other to such an extent that we end up with this comical scenario where a Snr Teacher max pay is only $900 more than a Teacher?

Another clue to this is MOE's setting of payscales. If MOE policy makers really sincerely believe that a Snr Teacher is so different and higher level than a Teacher, would they have come up with such a payscale that is almose 90% overlap with Teachers? Look at what they do, not what they say.

Mentoring juniors is kind of expected in any place, both public and private sector. This by itself does not differentiate the core job scope per se.



Yes this is the sort of official face saving thing everyone says when they lost out in the game, i.e. I wana go back teaching. Some are probably sincerely passionate about teaching and really want to go back, but I know for sure many others who lost out and got thrown back unwillingly. I cannot reveal my sources, but I personally know of at least 2 SH and 1 HOD who are like that.

Am I saying these people are bad eggs? No, not at all. They just happen to lost out in the game and got the "cold palace" treatment. In fact I applaud MOE for actually giving an avenue where these people can retire gracefully despite losing the competition. The private sector is much more brutal and losing politics can be followed by an unceremonious booting out or public humiliation.



Yes this CH thing is still being piloted in only few schools. My MOE source tells me that they have done a review and concluded that the current teaching track is still not cut fine enough to ensure frequent "promotion". He suspects that MOE might further fine cut the existing pay sclaes and job levels by creating another 1 or 2 fake "promotions" and this CH thing seems to be the direction they will go in the future.


Unregistered 19-03-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 34439)
Is it possible to work as a teacher and side line as a tuition teacher at the same time? Considered as moon lighting?

Possible i think. There's an six or eight hours per week quota that they can't exceed according to guidelines. Heard it when i was schooling.

A chem tutor from my school was giving tuition outside. Condition is he can't use school notes (duh) and can't advertise himself as a current teacher, but only as a 'NIE qualified teacher'. He's charging 80 - 100 an hour for about two students outside on his weekends morning.

Unregistered 19-03-2013 08:32 PM

Cap is 6 hours per week now.

MOE looks to be tightening up on the tuition industry though. Not sure how long this practice of allowing teachers to moon light will last.


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