Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2. no way is there 40 days of undisturbed holidays/leave. there is a standard of around 30 days of protected leave, but the dates cannot be chosen - they are allocated. there may be some additional unprotected days off, if a school does not need an officer to report back for official duty. but to add on, for March, June and September holidays, the vast majority of teachers will be spending a lot of time either marking or setting papers. there may also be official work duties like national exam invigilation.

if the public (who are wrongfully jealous of this all the time) want a more accurate average number for holidays/leave/days off - it is around 25-30 days per year. if still want to be calculative, it is actually being fair to pay them back some free days for the constant OT during curriculum time.

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. I'm grateful to be in the Service. To be fair, current remuneration, benefits, and quanta of 'blocked' leave are generally favourable factors. Most of the public also express respect and support for the profession (insofar as, reciprocally, we uphold the Ethos professionally - barring some bad actors which have been in the press).

But you are right, some malcontents on this forum want to fling baseless claims around. No need to give more ammunition to those with fixed mindsets and tunnel vision. I appreciate that you flagged up, rightfully, that one can criticise the rosy image of the Service easily when one does not see the challenges that are beneath the surface. For example, working overtime. Marking Prelim exam at 4am. Weekend CCA events. None of this is credited as OIL because we have fixed leave system.

Oh, neglected to mention, national exam duty too. Perhaps CNA can do a mini feature, "A day in the life of a CPE/PE." Would shine a light on a good example of administrative load and duties, which cause burnout for officers.

Whats the point of complaining so much. Accept it or not happy, leave. Slogging doesn't mean you get promotions and pay raises. Whether you like it or not, your endpoint is already predetermined even before you start university or enter the force. Surely you must have noticed something's amiss when you have scholars who can become VPs at early 30s or even Ps at mid-30s?

Most teachers can afford go holiday anywhere in the world at least once a year.

Meaning the salary package is quite good. Can buy condo, hdb, car whichever.

50 to 60 hours works are very normal.

Some customer service officers do 12 hours work daily.

Shopping mall workers also similar.

Those security guards or those doing operations running 24x7. Do shift or what. From 8 hours to 12 hrs

Normal office workers 9 to 10 hours per day usually.

Baaically, most people are spending such long hours.

Teachers workload is nothing much worse comparing to other profession

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Most teachers can afford go holiday anywhere in the world at least once a year.

Meaning the salary package is quite good. Can buy condo, hdb, car whichever.

50 to 60 hours works are very normal.

Some customer service officers do 12 hours work daily.

Shopping mall workers also similar.

Those security guards or those doing operations running 24x7. Do shift or what. From 8 hours to 12 hrs

Normal office workers 9 to 10 hours per day usually.

Baaically, most people are spending such long hours.

Teachers workload is nothing much worse comparing to other profession

Wah, really ah? Teacher's workload is nothing much worse comparing to other professions? How u know? U got lobang to join teaching anot? U ex-teacher? I also want to join to enjoy the high pay and easy job. Put application link in the next post leh.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Most teachers can afford go holiday anywhere in the world at least once a year.

Meaning the salary package is quite good. Can buy condo, hdb, car whichever.

50 to 60 hours works are very normal.

Some customer service officers do 12 hours work daily.

Shopping mall workers also similar.

Those security guards or those doing operations running 24x7. Do shift or what. From 8 hours to 12 hrs

Normal office workers 9 to 10 hours per day usually.

Baaically, most people are spending such long hours.

Teachers workload is nothing much worse comparing to other profession

Do customer service officers, shopping mall workers, security guards need to bring work home, and also work when they are on leave?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

my guess here is you're either a high level KP or SL who has lost touch with the ground level, or not a teacher at all

truths:

1. the average of 50-60 hours per week is true. yes it's not the worst. but it's tending towards the bad end when comparing all industries. the salary used to be better compared to other industries, but since covid, many industries have caught up (including fellow ministries). and is the salary really worth it for the average workload and hours? food for thought.

2. there are indeed PD courses which are mostly paid for. but do you think teachers have the time and energy to go for these things EVEN if they are deemed useful?

truths they may be, but they also generate more questions for debate.

myths:

1. 4-6 months of bonuses are only for above-average and excellent performers, or higher/senior management. the vast majority of the ministry only receives 3+ months per year - similar to other ministries (standard comparison will be with the general MX scheme)

2. no way is there 40 days of undisturbed holidays/leave. there is a standard of around 30 days of protected leave, but the dates cannot be chosen - they are allocated. there may be some additional unprotected days off, if a school does not need an officer to report back for official duty. but to add on, for March, June and September holidays, the vast majority of teachers will be spending a lot of time either marking or setting papers. there may also be official work duties like national exam invigilation.

if the public (who are wrongfully jealous of this all the time) want a more accurate average number for holidays/leave/days off - it is around 25-30 days per year. if still want to be calculative, it is actually being fair to pay them back some free days for the constant OT during curriculum time.

to be honest, the ministry ought to publish some official guidelines to educate the public specifically about the unique workload and hours of teachers, because the public simply cannot stop shooting their misconceptions at them. so many keep quiet here because they're just sick and tired of trying to dispel these ancient boomer level misconceptions that have existed since the 1980s my goodness

It’s really not that bad. I’m a teacher of 10+ years, and I don’t think I’m overpaid, but I don’t think I’m underpaid either. It’s a stable career that pays ok and it does have its perks and fulfilment.

The workload is heavy and we sometimes bring work home, but this is true for many other industries too. When I compare myself to friends outside, I don’t think I work that much more than them. I also get more holidays, just that I cannot pick and choose when to go on leave.

Protected leave time every year is about 30-40 days depending on whether you count weekends. I do work during sch holidays planning and marking and running events, but it’s mostly during unprotected time. Once protected time starts I really don’t do much or any work other than replying occasional messages.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Most teachers can afford go holiday anywhere in the world at least once a year.

Meaning the salary package is quite good. Can buy condo, hdb, car whichever.

50 to 60 hours works are very normal.

Some customer service officers do 12 hours work daily.

Shopping mall workers also similar.

Those security guards or those doing operations running 24x7. Do shift or what. From 8 hours to 12 hrs

Normal office workers 9 to 10 hours per day usually.

Baaically, most people are spending such long hours.

Teachers workload is nothing much worse comparing to other profession

Any degree holder also can go holiday anywhere in the world, some maybe more than once a year. Most people in normal jobs can rack up enough air miles from their vacationing to upgrade their frequent flyer tiers. Your point being?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whats the point of complaining so much. Accept it or not happy, leave. Slogging doesn't mean you get promotions and pay raises. Whether you like it or not, your endpoint is already predetermined even before you start university or enter the force. Surely you must have noticed something's amiss when you have scholars who can become VPs at early 30s or even Ps at mid-30s?

Sorry but I will disagree with your take here which is a fixed mindset.

The work is meaningful and enjoyable. It comes with challenges, that evolve over time alongside the change in social norms (eg more demands from parents, more permissive parenting), policy framework (eg FSBB system), and new technologies (eg AI tools, adapting to PLDs). As officers, we are responsible for maintaining our professionalism in terms of ethics and skills, and deliver good outcomes for stakeholders.

At the same time, it is also right for us to give input on how the Service, or our immediate leaders and managers, can pivot and adapt to the new challenges, by streamlining our workload. This has benefits on the officers' mental wellbeing, which creates positive downstream implications on how effectively we carry out our duties. I've heard it said that we can't pour out of an empty cup, and this adage summarises my input above.

So, to answer your question, one can accept and believe in the VMV of the service, and still give input internally to make things better and adapt more efficiently to changes.

Hi everyone. Seeking advice here.

Been feeling very down and burnt out lately. Not because of the workload or work culture, but rather, the attitudes of the students. My school isn’t top tier, but kids are hardworking and do perform well. But their attitude downright sucks - openly defiant towards teachers, sloppy work, and demand for work to be marked FAST and they will tell you that you are paid to do so when you ask for more time. Some even openly tell you that they have tuition teachers, and that’s the reason why they are doing well, not because of your teaching. One kid has never touched the notes, did badly, and told his friends that the notes suck. He made sure that he was loud enough for me to hear.

Recently told students that they need to be more self-directed since no one is paying attention in class knowing that notes are available online. Someone then blatantly shouted and started ranting on how my performance bonus would be cut if they complain and every does badly. Pushed me for an answer, asking if I would want my salary and progression to be affected. These people are potential leaders endorsed by their respective cca or committee teachers. They are but two of the many students who are extremely inconsistent.

I fondly remember how my students from a few years ago. They were not eloquent and academically inclined, but they tried their best and knew that certain boundaries should not be crossed. Granted, they were from another school and not as privileged as these kids, so maybe they cherished opportunities to learn much more as they knew that learning opportunities are hard to come by. I’m thinking of changing schools, but people are telling me it’s like this everywhere.

Thanks for reading. Just had to get this off my chest. Been feeling this way for some time and it’s as if I have lost my bearings. I don’t know why I am in the classroom and spending so much time on lesson prep, only to have students mocking me and my work ethics.