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Mnc jobs - a must in life ??

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2012, 02:17 PM
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He's not talking about the average guys. He's talking about the most street smart from poly vs the most book smart from jc. These are by definition outliers.
So what exactly is "street smart"? The underlying assumption is street smart = huat big big in business. Therefore street smart are financially more successful than book smart (I believe this means people with good academics).

But the whole argument is tautological as the term street smart has already been pre-defined as financially very successful. So the argument is essentially people who are very rich are richer than normal employees working for companies. I dun think we need anyone to tell us that.

It is important for people to understand the flaw in this logic and not make decision on such premises. My cousin is very street smart in that he always seems to be able to find some way to slack without getting caught and talking his way out of the small cons he runs to make a quick buck, but he sure as hell is not financially better off than the normal MNC worker.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 06:30 AM
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So what exactly is "street smart"? The underlying assumption is street smart = huat big big in business. Therefore street smart are financially more successful than book smart (I believe this means people with good academics).

But the whole argument is tautological as the term street smart has already been pre-defined as financially very successful. So the argument is essentially people who are very rich are richer than normal employees working for companies. I dun think we need anyone to tell us that.

It is important for people to understand the flaw in this logic and not make decision on such premises. My cousin is very street smart in that he always seems to be able to find some way to slack without getting caught and talking his way out of the small cons he runs to make a quick buck, but he sure as hell is not financially better off than the normal MNC worker.
I dun think street smart is just being witty and knowing how to take short cuts. It about having far sight seeing, see value in thing before even it matures, like a diamond b4 its cut, quick on ones feet, adaptive, improvisation etc. This sort of things are not taught in textbooks and not every1 can be.

entrepreneurship is just a route that others can opt for for success, so do not just ignore it because to you deem it as not an option. It requires alot inter alia perseverance, luck, humility which runs parallel with a salary man career (never meets). therefore, the impressive resumes that a salary man needs will not be even need by those who are their big boss. They are just different option and reap different rewards.

It is a gamble to take but the rich favors the bold. And you can be on a business instead of running 1, when you are at that stage, you are a notch above those decision maker in the MNC pyramid. statistic just shows the safer route of being salary man and if you chose to be one, then dressing up your resume will be important.

I am just a student here, but i have respect for both kinds. It just the option that we take.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 09:48 AM
workerbee
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Default MNC a MUST in life?

Agree with previous reply, let's bring it back to the topic at hand - is mnc a must in life? My point is that it is definitely not a must if u want to run your own business. This applies esp if you are local/overseas uni grad.

Here is why I feel so :

1) wrong emphasis on process and internal issues. Mnc train you to look internally too much. I have worked in MNC before and GLC too and have met with many MNC people in professional setting and community setting. They are great professionals but there is a tendency for them to spend much time on internal processes, navigating and understanding internal informal networks so that they can do their job well without stepping on the wrong toes. This is all great. It just does not suit the SME and especially startup culture required.

So what happens is that this guy can be a great MNC employee doing really well, but when he or she steps into entrepreneurship, all this attention to internal processes actually hold them back from making tough decisions or focusing on sales.

2) reliance on structure. MNC by definition have good internal structure with clearly delineated roles. Again this is not helpful to a new business. I have seen some MNC to SME bosses who are running only 3-4 year old businesses with revenue of less than 1M but they have PA and do not seem to like to talk to clients - prefering to leave it all to their sales staff. What a fatal flaw! You can do that only when you are much larger. I think too much comfort in hiding behind staff and structure.

3) Overspecialization. MNC work tends to be super specific and lack the bao ga liao type of coverage. Again, this works against you as you try to figure out all the nitty gritty details required.

4) Too comfortable with result of spoiling oneself. I took my entrepreneurship path partly because i spoke to a high flyer first hand. Govt scholar, AO, and he was then owning and running listco. I asked him what motivated him to leave the safety of Admin Service. This wise man told me outright that when in govt or MNC people respected him for his title and what his organization was about. When he left for a break, he realised nobody gave a rats ass about him. So he decided to take his money and really build his own wealth via business.

I have seen so many other cases. High flying MNC executive, once retrenched, struggle to maintain self-esteem and lifestyle. But what i observe is that ultimately, if u take the MNC route and meet with success, it is a very good life and so most end up not becoming entrepreneurs.

These are the 4 biggest issues with working for MNCs if you want to ultimately become an entrepreneur. BTW, there are also many MNC alumni who do great in business. See Wong in Venture Corp as a great example.

So, I am NOT SAYING MNC are bad, I am not saying that entrepreneuers are better, i am just saying "MNC exp not required at all for entrepreneurship and that yes, entrepreneurship is very rewarding and fun!".

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 10:04 AM
delJean
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Whether you in MNC or SME or start small business the standard pattern is the same. 99% of us start out thinking we will be the top 1% who will not follow the normal average Joe route and end with the realization that we are yet again just another average guy.

Corporate Ladder
@ 24: Dream – CEO, Actual – Executive
@30: Dream – Director / Senior Manager, Actual – Junior Manager / Assistant Manager
@40: Dream – Mid Manager, Actual – Mid Manager
@>40: Dream – Status Quo, dun get retrench or pay cut Actual – Lucky ones trap in threadmill but at least got job, unlucky ones retrench become taxi driver, tuition teacher etc.

Entrepreneur
@24: Dream – Be the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, Actual – Still slogging in some company gaining experience
@30: Dream – Be a towkay and multi-millionaire of mid size business, Actual – Business just start up and making losses
@40: Dream – Get business on track and make decent monthly income, Actual – Lucky if can make decent living out of business, unlucky business fold up, get conned by partners etc.
@50: Dream – Forget about expansion, as long as my little shop can make money to pay basic expenses can already. Actual – Lucky can still make decent living, unlucky bankrupt, business fold, tekan by landlord etc.

SOP for almost everyone. We all like to believe we are THE ONE, but we end up ANOTHER ONE.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delJean View Post
Whether you in MNC or SME or start small business the standard pattern is the same. 99% of us start out thinking we will be the top 1% who will not follow the normal average Joe route and end with the realization that we are yet again just another average guy.

Corporate Ladder
@ 24: Dream – CEO, Actual – Executive
@30: Dream – Director / Senior Manager, Actual – Junior Manager / Assistant Manager
@40: Dream – Mid Manager, Actual – Mid Manager
@>40: Dream – Status Quo, dun get retrench or pay cut Actual – Lucky ones trap in threadmill but at least got job, unlucky ones retrench become taxi driver, tuition teacher etc.

Entrepreneur
@24: Dream – Be the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, Actual – Still slogging in some company gaining experience
@30: Dream – Be a towkay and multi-millionaire of mid size business, Actual – Business just start up and making losses
@40: Dream – Get business on track and make decent monthly income, Actual – Lucky if can make decent living out of business, unlucky business fold up, get conned by partners etc.
@50: Dream – Forget about expansion, as long as my little shop can make money to pay basic expenses can already. Actual – Lucky can still make decent living, unlucky bankrupt, business fold, tekan by landlord etc.

SOP for almost everyone. We all like to believe we are THE ONE, but we end up ANOTHER ONE.
Good one. Which @ are you at now?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delJean View Post
Whether you in MNC or SME or start small business the standard pattern is the same. 99% of us start out thinking we will be the top 1% who will not follow the normal average Joe route and end with the realization that we are yet again just another average guy.

Corporate Ladder
@ 24: Dream – CEO, Actual – Executive
@30: Dream – Director / Senior Manager, Actual – Junior Manager / Assistant Manager
@40: Dream – Mid Manager, Actual – Mid Manager
@>40: Dream – Status Quo, dun get retrench or pay cut Actual – Lucky ones trap in threadmill but at least got job, unlucky ones retrench become taxi driver, tuition teacher etc.

Entrepreneur
@24: Dream – Be the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, Actual – Still slogging in some company gaining experience
@30: Dream – Be a towkay and multi-millionaire of mid size business, Actual – Business just start up and making losses
@40: Dream – Get business on track and make decent monthly income, Actual – Lucky if can make decent living out of business, unlucky business fold up, get conned by partners etc.
@50: Dream – Forget about expansion, as long as my little shop can make money to pay basic expenses can already. Actual – Lucky can still make decent living, unlucky bankrupt, business fold, tekan by landlord etc.

SOP for almost everyone. We all like to believe we are THE ONE, but we end up ANOTHER ONE.
Very true and it shows we young Singaporeans have dreams! Here is my timeline :

Entrepreneur
@24: Dream – Be the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, Actual – Quit MNC job to start own business
@30: Dream – Just want to make at least $500K in profit!. No more multimillionaire dream! because I realize that very hard to scale in Singapore to be like Bill gates!, Actual – Business just start making some money. Able to earn about 120K a year inclusive profits and pay.
@35: Dream – Multimillionaire, towkay dream, Actual – Achieved the 500K profit and in fact nearing 1M profit.
@40: Dream – IPO or sale to big MNC. Actual – Lucky to have achieved sale to big MNC. Millionaire many many times over!
@45 : Dream - Grow another business for that IPO that I missed. Actual??? work in progress.

So it is possible to the in the 1%, all those entrepreneurs and would be entrepreneurs - DON'T GIVE UP! Surround yourself with other successful entrepreneurs and learn from them. Always dream and never let yourself get jaded!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rbh View Post
The problem with this sort of thinking is it tends to ignore hard empirical evidence and relies too much on glorifying the outlying values.

Every year that MOM has published workforce statistics is the same, degree holders as a whole earn much more than diploma holders. Take enough of a small sample size you will always be able to find some huat poly grad to compare with a downtrodden degree taxi driver.

Such stories should be seen in context and people should learn from them as shinning examples of never bowing to constraints, but they should never be used as inputs to decision making process as at the end of the day, you are unlikely going to be the outlier.
I think the point many people hv made are that street smart poly grads have done better than book smart jv students over the long term. Do note that many of these poly grads do get their degrees after they complete their army service, so they will not be captured under the diploma statistics .

Hence the comparison is not poly grad vs degree grad as u hv alluded but rather it should be poly vs jc route.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 03:39 PM
rbh
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I think the point many people hv made are that street smart poly grads have done better than book smart jv students over the long term. Do note that many of these poly grads do get their degrees after they complete their army service, so they will not be captured under the diploma statistics .

Hence the comparison is not poly grad vs degree grad as u hv alluded but rather it should be poly vs jc route.
The problem here is lots of hearsay presented as truth with no hard data. Anyone can BS how fantastic their business is, but I take it with a pinch of salt as no way to verify. The only successful ones we can say for sure are those that manage to IPO & need to report their financial results or are verified by independent third party.

So far the results for the most successful business people in Singapore with verified wealth seem to skew towards those on JC route instead of the commonly held belief that the best poly "streetwisers" are financially more successful than the best JC "examwisers". One also has to note that Poly route intakes exceed JC route, so even a 50%/50% split would weigh favorably to the JC route guys.

Sim Wong Hoo - Creative - Poly Route
Olivia Lum - Hyflux - JC Route
Keith Chua - ABR - JC Route
Loo Choon Yong - Raffles Medical - JC Route
Wong Brothers - Charles & Keith - Not sure, but profile reads like poly Route
Peter Lim - Investments / Holdings - JC Route
John Tan - ACR Capital - JC Route
Douglas Foo - Sakae - JC Route
Yee Jen Jong - AsknLearn - JC Route, NCMP from Worker's Party
Adam Khoo - Adam Khoo Learning Technologies - JC Route
Tan Wee Beng - Wee Tiong Engineering - JC Route
Derek Goh - Serial System - Not sure, but profile reads like JC Route
Ng Chin Siau - Q&M Dental - JC Route
Richard Eu - Eu Yan Sang - ACS, Kent College, more prestigious than JC Route

I have tried to avoid listing names which either wealth comes mostly from inheritance, or they found companies long time ago where there really isn't this concept of JC vs poly route. This is just a sample list of owners of more well-known businesses in Singapore where financial results and net worth can either be verified through SGX filings or authoritative sources such as E&Y, Forbes, Businessweek etc.

I have no intention to start some stupid flame war between JC batch and poly batch. I myself am a poly grad who got a sponsored university degree from US while working. I just wanted to clarify this urban legend that is often repeated that the most successful entrepreneur is often from Poly and their street wisdom somehow enables the best of them to beat the JC "elites" when it comes to doing business.

This does not of course mean that people like me cannot be spectacularly successful just because we are from poly, but neither do we do empirical evidence justice by perpetuating the myth that poly graduates either on average or as an outlying group do better than our JC counterparts.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by workerbee View Post
Agree with previous reply, let's bring it back to the topic at hand - is mnc a must in life? My point is that it is definitely not a must if u want to run your own business. This applies esp if you are local/overseas uni grad.

Here is why I feel so :

1) wrong emphasis on process and internal issues. Mnc train you to look internally too much. I have worked in MNC before and GLC too and have met with many MNC people in professional setting and community setting. They are great professionals but there is a tendency for them to spend much time on internal processes, navigating and understanding internal informal networks so that they can do their job well without stepping on the wrong toes. This is all great. It just does not suit the SME and especially startup culture required.

So what happens is that this guy can be a great MNC employee doing really well, but when he or she steps into entrepreneurship, all this attention to internal processes actually hold them back from making tough decisions or focusing on sales.

2) reliance on structure. MNC by definition have good internal structure with clearly delineated roles. Again this is not helpful to a new business. I have seen some MNC to SME bosses who are running only 3-4 year old businesses with revenue of less than 1M but they have PA and do not seem to like to talk to clients - prefering to leave it all to their sales staff. What a fatal flaw! You can do that only when you are much larger. I think too much comfort in hiding behind staff and structure.

3) Overspecialization. MNC work tends to be super specific and lack the bao ga liao type of coverage. Again, this works against you as you try to figure out all the nitty gritty details required.

4) Too comfortable with result of spoiling oneself. I took my entrepreneurship path partly because i spoke to a high flyer first hand. Govt scholar, AO, and he was then owning and running listco. I asked him what motivated him to leave the safety of Admin Service. This wise man told me outright that when in govt or MNC people respected him for his title and what his organization was about. When he left for a break, he realised nobody gave a rats ass about him. So he decided to take his money and really build his own wealth via business.

I have seen so many other cases. High flying MNC executive, once retrenched, struggle to maintain self-esteem and lifestyle. But what i observe is that ultimately, if u take the MNC route and meet with success, it is a very good life and so most end up not becoming entrepreneurs.

These are the 4 biggest issues with working for MNCs if you want to ultimately become an entrepreneur. BTW, there are also many MNC alumni who do great in business. See Wong in Venture Corp as a great example.

So, I am NOT SAYING MNC are bad, I am not saying that entrepreneuers are better, i am just saying "MNC exp not required at all for entrepreneurship and that yes, entrepreneurship is very rewarding and fun!".
Workerbee, thanks for sharing in such a patient way. It really shows how far you have come. It is easy for some to misunderstand your tone, and words used like "freedom". But you are speaking the minds of those who have built something from scratch.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 13-02-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rbh View Post
The problem here is lots of hearsay presented as truth with no hard data. Anyone can BS how fantastic their business is, but I take it with a pinch of salt as no way to verify. The only successful ones we can say for sure are those that manage to IPO & need to report their financial results or are verified by independent third party.

So far the results for the most successful business people in Singapore with verified wealth seem to skew towards those on JC route instead of the commonly held belief that the best poly "streetwisers" are financially more successful than the best JC "examwisers". One also has to note that Poly route intakes exceed JC route, so even a 50%/50% split would weigh favorably to the JC route guys.

Sim Wong Hoo - Creative - Poly Route
Olivia Lum - Hyflux - JC Route
Keith Chua - ABR - JC Route
Loo Choon Yong - Raffles Medical - JC Route
Wong Brothers - Charles & Keith - Not sure, but profile reads like poly Route
Peter Lim - Investments / Holdings - JC Route
John Tan - ACR Capital - JC Route
Douglas Foo - Sakae - JC Route
Yee Jen Jong - AsknLearn - JC Route, NCMP from Worker's Party
Adam Khoo - Adam Khoo Learning Technologies - JC Route
Tan Wee Beng - Wee Tiong Engineering - JC Route
Derek Goh - Serial System - Not sure, but profile reads like JC Route
Ng Chin Siau - Q&M Dental - JC Route
Richard Eu - Eu Yan Sang - ACS, Kent College, more prestigious than JC Route

I have tried to avoid listing names which either wealth comes mostly from inheritance, or they found companies long time ago where there really isn't this concept of JC vs poly route. This is just a sample list of owners of more well-known businesses in Singapore where financial results and net worth can either be verified through SGX filings or authoritative sources such as E&Y, Forbes, Businessweek etc.

I have no intention to start some stupid flame war between JC batch and poly batch. I myself am a poly grad who got a sponsored university degree from US while working. I just wanted to clarify this urban legend that is often repeated that the most successful entrepreneur is often from Poly and their street wisdom somehow enables the best of them to beat the JC "elites" when it comes to doing business.

This does not of course mean that people like me cannot be spectacularly successful just because we are from poly, but neither do we do empirical evidence justice by perpetuating the myth that poly graduates either on average or as an outlying group do better than our JC counterparts.
These people are definitely more educated and savvy about using financial markets to raise money and to exit.

The problem with the above list is that it misses out a whole lot of less savvy founders but nonetheless rich people who cut their teeth the traditional way building successful businesses organically and never exiting via listing. By definition, these people will not be public figures.

Your list is intrinsically skewed towards the JC routers.
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