What is the typical time for promotions in the gahment sector?

[miwashi]

What makes you think I haven't tried?
That's why I'm so unhappy.

Asked bosses for chances to do more meaningful things. Never happened. And of course, because the focus of the department I'm in is maintenance work, which is always taken for granted compared to those high-profile organization development work that scholars always do. There's no room where I'm at to do anything useful and develop skills relevant to any other organization.

So I've routinely asked for transfers every year to departments that don't do maintenance work; places that do progressive and meaningful work. No luck.

Since I can't seem to get any job offers, I've tried everything I can do to get out of the department I'm in so I can say I've had opportunities to learn new things.

But it's not happening. The opportunities seem to come only to scholars and young people, and I think I was screwed from the start since I was already considered old when I joined.

How old are you?

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by miwashi

But it's not happening. The opportunities seem to come only to scholars and young people, and I think I was screwed from the start since I was already considered old when I joined.

I think it is not difficult to guess that your CEP isn't that high. I suspect either 10 or 11. That you left and rejoined service didn't help. It also doesn't seem to me that your supervisor had done anything to improve your CEP. Does he dislike you or something? Did you ask him about it point blank? How about promotion and transfer. What was his response? How is the quality of your day to day work? I have colleagues working in the corporate services unit. Doesn't mean they are not doing well.

Since it has been a while since you rejoined service, quite frankly it is going to be tough resurrecting your CEP. Should have taken action within 1-2 years after you rejoined.

Here I present you with 3 options to choose: Suck it up and remain where you are until they post you out, knowing that it might never happen. Otherwise, tell your HR - either transfer me out or I quit. See where that takes you. 3rd, go do something to improve your marketability and get the hell out. I like the 3rd option most.

For the first and second option, realise that your CEP might still not change (unless under option 2, you sudden become a superstar officer and rise from the ashes) and you might get stuck at Mx12 for a long time, possibly promoting to 11 late, and 10 (in your 40s, towards end of your career, or never). If this is something you can live with, stay. Otherwise, fight - go do a part time course or something and get the hell out.

I'm doing a full time course myself. No pay leave for a year. With luck, I'm also moving on.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I think it is not difficult to guess that your CEP isn't that high. I suspect either 10 or 11. That you left and rejoined service didn't help. It also doesn't seem to me that your supervisor had done anything to improve your CEP. Does he dislike you or something? Did you ask him about it point blank? How about promotion and transfer. What was his response? How is the quality of your day to day work? I have colleagues working in the corporate services unit. Doesn't mean they are not doing well.

Since it has been a while since you rejoined service, quite frankly it is going to be tough resurrecting your CEP. Should have taken action within 1-2 years after you rejoined.

Here I present you with 3 options to choose: Suck it up and remain where you are until they post you out, knowing that it might never happen. Otherwise, tell your HR - either transfer me out or I quit. See where that takes you. 3rd, go do something to improve your marketability and get the hell out. I like the 3rd option most.

For the first and second option, realise that your CEP might still not change (unless under option 2, you sudden become a superstar officer and rise from the ashes) and you might get stuck at Mx12 for a long time, possibly promoting to 11 late, and 10 (in your 40s, towards end of your career, or never). If this is something you can live with, stay. Otherwise, fight - go do a part time course or something and get the hell out.

I'm doing a full time course myself. No pay leave for a year. With luck, I'm also moving on.

just curious. y is it that u wanna move on?

read that u r a pretty high flier. shldnt you be in Hi-Po ??

[Anonymous]

I am in hi-po.

I wrote this some time ago in another thread:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

When I started my career as a civil servant, I was confident and enthusiastic about public sector work. Civil service as a lifelong career was a very real possibility and I didn't entertain thoughts of joining the private sector.

Things didn't start out that well for me in the first 2 years, but in the subsequent years, my luck improved and I was given many opportunities. Hence, I did quite well. The knowledge I gained opened my eyes to many things. My entire world view expanded. It was a good learning experience but yet at the end of it i was confronted with a dilemma that would eventually lead me to consider moving out to the private sector. Let me explain why.

You will come to realise that there are generally 2 paths an officer can take in the civil service: (1) Specialist, or (2) Generalist. [NB:I'm use these terms very broadly here.]

By Specialist, I refer to job scopes like resource management (i.e. HR, Finance, technology, corporate communications), operations (e.g. front-line jobs like SAF, Police, customer services, etc), research, etc.

By Generalist, I refer to job scopes like policy and planning work, international relations, etc.

Over time, I came to a conclusion that my preferred area of work is public policy formulation and implementation. It is gratifying to see the public policies which I have a hand in be implemented to the benefit of the people. It is also what I find most interesting and challenging, although of course I won't mind doing other things from time to time if the organisation so needed me.

However, I came to realise that unless I was in the admin service, I will never have the opportunity to cover a broad spectrum of public policy making, nor rise to a position where I contribute in a bigger role. There are exceptions to this, but not many. It is not even about the remuneration but about the opportunities for development, to expand my horizon and learn more things.

To have a sustainable career as a management executive officer, one has little choice but to pursue the track of a specialist. Unfortunately, I've considered most MX 'specialist' options but did not find anything which I'm truly interested in.

The way I see it, if I'm not able to reach my fullest potential in the civil service and have the opportunity to do what I like to do best, I should at least give myself a chance to spread my wings outside. Otherwise, I might live to regret it. There will always be a possibility that I will return of course, if my priorities change. I don't think that is a problem either because I would be able to bring back some outside experience which could be of relevance.

As for you, if remaining marketable is already a concern for you before you even join the civil service, then you should consider a post in an agency that is at least closer to the private sector (e.g. economic agencies such as MOF, MAS, MTI, EDB). This way, should you eventually decide that a civil service career is not for you, you can at least tout your working experience to be of some relevance when you apply for a job. You might also want to consider taking part time courses such as CFA to beef up your CV in the meantime.

My own view is that as a scholar, you have a moral obligation to serve out your bond so I won't advise you to break it. You might hear differently from other scholars of course. To each his own.

Consider your stint in the public sector as an opportunity to look at the bigger picture and be educated about issues at the national/international level. If nothing else, you will be able to appreciate public service issues at a different level from the man in the street, when you leave.

Miwashi, have you ever considered maybe from a career point of view, this is about as good as your capabilities will bring you?

I'm not trying to be insulting or what, but seriously a lot of people have career peaking at $4k - $5k anyway. It might not mean that you stupid or what, but maybe your character & capabilities just isn't suitable to climb corporate ladder?

After trying so long in NEA and still nobody bothered giving you a hoot, it seems all your possible stakeholders have written you off. Considering you are not even able to navigate relatively low level politics of NEA, I doubt you'll be able to sell yourself and secure a job elsewhere.

So you have 2 chocies:

1) Accept that $4k and basic admin job is your limit
2) Find other non-career opportunities like investment, trading, business

Life sometimes sux, not everyone is destined to be a a manager or banker. Be content that at least you still have $3.7k slack iron rice bowl job, there are many jobless 40 year olds who will be glad to switch places with you.

[miwashi]

Thank you, yes I don't feel insulted and I value constructive advice.

The thing is, I'm not in my element here. My background is in science, public health and epidemiology, and here I'm doing general admin work for grasscutting performance, like cutting and pasting numbers for grasscutting and rubbish collection scores into excel sheets, and that sort of thing. And that's the 'high level' stuff. The general work is making sure grass is cut nicely, making sure rubbish bins are not overflowing, making sure holes in the ground are filled with soil, picking up used durex (yes I'm not kidding, I have picked them up from locations I'm in charge of very routinely and binned them) and that kind of thing. When I was interviewed for the job they dropped all kinds of terms like SPSS analysis, events planning, and to date I haven't been involved in anything like this. It is a total job misfit and I don't understand how an honors degree holder can end up picking up used durex in public places.

I used to investigate emerging disease outbreaks in Singapore in my previous job, analyze findings and figure out how they happened, and update policies to address preventing recurrence and things of that nature, and I know I can do much more than my current job's cutting and pasting data in excel sheets, making sure microsoft word tables are aligned nicely, and things like that. But the nature of this job in my department is just this, and many of the people have lower education and are already struggling with this sort of thing, that's why I keep asking for a transfer out because the longer I stay the more I sink into a comfort zone and become like them.

Originally Posted by miwashi

Thank you, yes I don't feel insulted and I value constructive advice.

The thing is, I'm not in my element here. My background is in science, public health and epidemiology, and here I'm doing general admin work for grasscutting performance, like cutting and pasting numbers for grasscutting and rubbish collection scores into excel sheets, and that sort of thing. And that's the 'high level' stuff. The general work is making sure grass is cut nicely, making sure rubbish bins are not overflowing, making sure holes in the ground are filled with soil, picking up used durex (yes I'm not kidding, I have picked them up from locations I'm in charge of very routinely and binned them) and that kind of thing. When I was interviewed for the job they dropped all kinds of terms like SPSS analysis, events planning, and to date I haven't been involved in anything like this. It is a total job misfit and I don't understand how an honors degree holder can end up picking up used durex in public places.

I used to investigate emerging disease outbreaks in Singapore in my previous job, analyze findings and figure out how they happened, and update policies to address preventing recurrence and things of that nature, and I know I can do much more than my current job's cutting and pasting data in excel sheets, making sure microsoft word tables are aligned nicely, and things like that. But the nature of this job in my department is just this, and many of the people have lower education and are already struggling with this sort of thing, that's why I keep asking for a transfer out because the longer I stay the more I sink into a comfort zone and become like them.

Your problem isn’t that your job is not your forte. It seems very likely that you are oblivion to the game of office politics and have as a result made a poor impression and likely offended a lot of people in the process unknowingly. In the pte sector, lots of people get sai gang occasionally that are way beneath their stature, but most will be able to play politics to tai chi away things or reposition themselves politically, you dun demonstrate the ability to do that so far.

Some people are natural in a way that they just can’t seem to be able to detect the nuances of their interaction in work place. Under normal circumstances, an honors grad shouldn’t end up in such a crappy state as you are now, your experience seems to reflect that everyone condemn you and not even 1 person willing to say something for you.

Another clear indication is that you have been attending interviews for so long and never seem to be able to get anywhere close to an offer. That suggests that there is a fundamental problem in the way you are presenting yourself and interacting on a professional level.

So far the most accurate comment of Miwashi problem.

I do not know him personally, but from his post he seem like a complainer and very negative sort of person. The kind you blanket party during NS.

On paper it seems like he had some bad luck, but when he keep meeting problem in so many areas and nobody willing to help, most likely he himself is the problem.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Your problem isn’t that your job is not your forte. It seems very likely that you are oblivion to the game of office politics and have as a result made a poor impression and likely offended a lot of people in the process unknowingly. In the pte sector, lots of people get sai gang occasionally that are way beneath their stature, but most will be able to play politics to tai chi away things or reposition themselves politically, you dun demonstrate the ability to do that so far.

Some people are natural in a way that they just can’t seem to be able to detect the nuances of their interaction in work place. Under normal circumstances, an honors grad shouldn’t end up in such a crappy state as you are now, your experience seems to reflect that everyone condemn you and not even 1 person willing to say something for you.

Another clear indication is that you have been attending interviews for so long and never seem to be able to get anywhere close to an offer. That suggests that there is a fundamental problem in the way you are presenting yourself and interacting on a professional level.

He is a product of sinkie education. By the book and cannot think out of the box.

For him all he can think of is

- Current job sux
- I like media editing
- Send CV to apply for media editor
- Nobody reply
- Dulan, repeat process again

No creativity in thinking at all, try and bang head against tree endlessly and still repeat exactly the same process.