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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Present yourself well and get to know rich and handsome lawyers, hook on one to marry and your are settled for life. Just play the docile wife and make him happy. Many times better than slogging for low pay.

Women's youth is their source of almost everything.
haha. u are so full of shiet.

but if you are their secretary, u will know how much they are actually earning....

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bellmiko View Post
Hello,

Legal secretary is different from the kinda PA duties i am interested. legal duties require much more of the person to deal with the actual process of for eg. litigation, conveyancing or corporate.. and not so much of being a personal assistant.. so yeah..
I'm confused, so what exactly are you looking for? Administration job or PA role? If it's the later than I think you can forget about it, nobody will hire a SYT who graduated just a few years ago to be PA, it's too demanding.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 01:31 PM
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Hello,

Legal secretary is different from the kinda PA duties i am interested. legal duties require much more of the person to deal with the actual process of for eg. litigation, conveyancing or corporate.. and not so much of being a personal assistant.. so yeah..
i see, not bad you kinda did your homework on legal secretarial....

the PA duties u were to pursue is it more inclined towards assisting the MD etc, pa/admin/secretary/abit of exec assistant?

u can try applying for P&G to be their secretary/pa...but its usually on contract, and u get a completion bonus upon completion of your contract, not sure whether renewable....erm experience wise, 3-5 years...u can try....but theres this test u have to take upon application, the std p&g test...

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fusion View Post
I'm confused, so what exactly are you looking for? Administration job or PA role? If it's the later than I think you can forget about it, nobody will hire a SYT who graduated just a few years ago to be PA, it's too demanding.
haha,you never know, who knows the boss like SYT to be his PA...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 04:15 PM
Minicks
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Bellmiko,

You seem to be very confused and are conflating administrator, secretary and personal assistant roles together which results in your inability to articulate exactly what you're looking for now. Although these jobs overlap in some aspects, the required experience and competencies are vastly different.

All that sexual insinuation aside, PAs are very experienced, well-groomed and knowledgeable in a multiple areas of work & leisure. In most MNCs where an executive has a PA, they’re actually pretty senior, comparable to mid or mid-high managers in terms of pay & company grading. It is for this reason that most of them are middle aged ladies with vast experience.

Department secretaries or executive secretaries are a notch lower. They tend to be senior administrators that support one or more manager in matters of administration such as travel arrangements, meeting schedules, presentation materials & event organization. Many secretaries have worked as administrators for >10 years and are usually people who prefer to stay as individual contributors instead of going the managerial route of managing a team as a admin / office manager.

Administrators are the follow standards, file paperwork, pick up calls and fill in forms kind of junior role that you are familiar with.

Some companies especially SME like to inflate titles and anyhow use the term secretary & PA when they actually are just hiring admin, that’s why there is so much confusion. Based on your experience and last drawn pay, you don't stand a chance in a real secretary and PA role.

Your only option is to look for a junior admin role, which brings me to my earlier point. Just make sure the salary is at least comparable & as long as the boss looks like someone you can work with, then go for it. At this stage, it’s pointless to talk about things like market positioning, career progression, potential etc. At this level, people come & go all the time, no need to over analyze the whole situation.


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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Minicks View Post
Bellmiko,

You seem to be very confused and are conflating administrator, secretary and personal assistant roles together which results in your inability to articulate exactly what you're looking for now. Although these jobs overlap in some aspects, the required experience and competencies are vastly different.

All that sexual insinuation aside, PAs are very experienced, well-groomed and knowledgeable in a multiple areas of work & leisure. In most MNCs where an executive has a PA, they’re actually pretty senior, comparable to mid or mid-high managers in terms of pay & company grading. It is for this reason that most of them are middle aged ladies with vast experience.

Department secretaries or executive secretaries are a notch lower. They tend to be senior administrators that support one or more manager in matters of administration such as travel arrangements, meeting schedules, presentation materials & event organization. Many secretaries have worked as administrators for >10 years and are usually people who prefer to stay as individual contributors instead of going the managerial route of managing a team as a admin / office manager.

Administrators are the follow standards, file paperwork, pick up calls and fill in forms kind of junior role that you are familiar with.

Some companies especially SME like to inflate titles and anyhow use the term secretary & PA when they actually are just hiring admin, that’s why there is so much confusion. Based on your experience and last drawn pay, you don't stand a chance in a real secretary and PA role.

Your only option is to look for a junior admin role, which brings me to my earlier point. Just make sure the salary is at least comparable & as long as the boss looks like someone you can work with, then go for it. At this stage, it’s pointless to talk about things like market positioning, career progression, potential etc. At this level, people come & go all the time, no need to over analyze the whole situation.
Well said, although a bit harsh. I also don’t understand at first when she say she looking for personal assistant opp because my understanding is that they are paid much higher than what TS is getting now.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Minicks View Post
Bellmiko,

You seem to be very confused and are conflating administrator, secretary and personal assistant roles together which results in your inability to articulate exactly what you're looking for now. Although these jobs overlap in some aspects, the required experience and competencies are vastly different.

All that sexual insinuation aside, PAs are very experienced, well-groomed and knowledgeable in a multiple areas of work & leisure. In most MNCs where an executive has a PA, they’re actually pretty senior, comparable to mid or mid-high managers in terms of pay & company grading. It is for this reason that most of them are middle aged ladies with vast experience.

Department secretaries or executive secretaries are a notch lower. They tend to be senior administrators that support one or more manager in matters of administration such as travel arrangements, meeting schedules, presentation materials & event organization. Many secretaries have worked as administrators for >10 years and are usually people who prefer to stay as individual contributors instead of going the managerial route of managing a team as a admin / office manager.

Administrators are the follow standards, file paperwork, pick up calls and fill in forms kind of junior role that you are familiar with.

Some companies especially SME like to inflate titles and anyhow use the term secretary & PA when they actually are just hiring admin, that’s why there is so much confusion. Based on your experience and last drawn pay, you don't stand a chance in a real secretary and PA role.

Your only option is to look for a junior admin role, which brings me to my earlier point. Just make sure the salary is at least comparable & as long as the boss looks like someone you can work with, then go for it. At this stage, it’s pointless to talk about things like market positioning, career progression, potential etc. At this level, people come & go all the time, no need to over analyze the whole situation.
great job there. you took time to place everything a person looking into these roles can ask for. While most people might have just taken a quick glance and brush it off, you actually bring the whole vast nature of work to the tabletop.

Hope to see your posts again.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 28-10-2011, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minicks View Post
Bellmiko,

You seem to be very confused and are conflating administrator, secretary and personal assistant roles together which results in your inability to articulate exactly what you're looking for now. Although these jobs overlap in some aspects, the required experience and competencies are vastly different.

All that sexual insinuation aside, PAs are very experienced, well-groomed and knowledgeable in a multiple areas of work & leisure. In most MNCs where an executive has a PA, they’re actually pretty senior, comparable to mid or mid-high managers in terms of pay & company grading. It is for this reason that most of them are middle aged ladies with vast experience.

Department secretaries or executive secretaries are a notch lower. They tend to be senior administrators that support one or more manager in matters of administration such as travel arrangements, meeting schedules, presentation materials & event organization. Many secretaries have worked as administrators for >10 years and are usually people who prefer to stay as individual contributors instead of going the managerial route of managing a team as a admin / office manager.

Administrators are the follow standards, file paperwork, pick up calls and fill in forms kind of junior role that you are familiar with.

Some companies especially SME like to inflate titles and anyhow use the term secretary & PA when they actually are just hiring admin, that’s why there is so much confusion. Based on your experience and last drawn pay, you don't stand a chance in a real secretary and PA role.

Your only option is to look for a junior admin role, which brings me to my earlier point. Just make sure the salary is at least comparable & as long as the boss looks like someone you can work with, then go for it. At this stage, it’s pointless to talk about things like market positioning, career progression, potential etc. At this level, people come & go all the time, no need to over analyze the whole situation.
Thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

I do not think I am very confused about the whole situation. Companies can give the position whatever title they wan it to be. be it Executive, Secretary, PA etc. But eventually what they are doing is managing senior management's calendar, make travel arrangements, arrange meetings etc.. these are more Secretarial instead of administration.

presently, of course i am not expecting a big organization/MNC to consider me for a PA position because a PA is such an organization is as you said must be mature and well groomed etc.

at this point, i am just looking to start somewhere, dealing with the type of responsibilities i mentioned above, regardless what the company wants to name the position..
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 31-10-2011, 09:59 AM
Minicks
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Originally Posted by bellmiko View Post
Thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

I do not think I am very confused about the whole situation. Companies can give the position whatever title they wan it to be. be it Executive, Secretary, PA etc. But eventually what they are doing is managing senior management's calendar, make travel arrangements, arrange meetings etc.. these are more Secretarial instead of administration.

presently, of course i am not expecting a big organization/MNC to consider me for a PA position because a PA is such an organization is as you said must be mature and well groomed etc.

at this point, i am just looking to start somewhere, dealing with the type of responsibilities i mentioned above, regardless what the company wants to name the position..
Bellmiko,

Aha, but the devil is in the details. Both basic administrator & executive secretary & even PA can be doing overlap jobs that consist of managing calendars, travel arrangements, or organizing events, but the expectations and problem solving required are very different. Organizations can call whatever BS title they want, but you yourself cannot be confused & think they are all the same.

Let me be clearer less you lump anyone that arrange meetings as secretary:

Managing Calendars

Exec Secretary – Expected to understand the nature of meeting & priority of each stakeholder. Knows how to reshuffle, prioritize & front stakeholders who are requesting meeting with the boss. In the event of last minute changes, able to make decisions on the spot and guess 80% who, when where the boss would want to meet first in the event of conflict. Understands boss preferred timings, likes & dislikes on venue, who he now trying to “siam” etc.

Basic Administrator – Order taker. People call to make meeting with boss, you look at Outlook calendar, find an empty slot and key in timing to reserve slot. Boss call & say I wana arrange meeting with so & so, you go call up person & book a timing. Any conflict with multiple stakeholders you call boss & ask what he want.

Travel Arrangements

Exec Secretary – You liase actively with your counterparts in other country to make all necessary arrangement & present your boss his travel itinerary, this often includes sorting out complicated visa requirements, local transport arrangements, liasing with multiple overseas parties to make sure boss can meet whoever he wants over there. Overseas interview for candidates is the worst, bloody problematic & prone to last minute changes. Many times could involve boss family members on private trips as well.

Basic Administrator – Order taker. Boss say need to fly to China next week. You phone travel agent, find out all available flight times and ask what he want. If got corporate hotel, help him reserve a room for required duration.

Above just 2 examples to show you how although you can say both jobs are “managing calendar” & “doing travel arrangement”, the expectation completely different. Just as a guide, secretaries are usually paid $4 - $5k, that’s about 3 times your current level.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 31-10-2011, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Minicks View Post
Bellmiko,

Aha, but the devil is in the details. Both basic administrator & executive secretary & even PA can be doing overlap jobs that consist of managing calendars, travel arrangements, or organizing events, but the expectations and problem solving required are very different. Organizations can call whatever BS title they want, but you yourself cannot be confused & think they are all the same.

Let me be clearer less you lump anyone that arrange meetings as secretary:

Managing Calendars

Exec Secretary – Expected to understand the nature of meeting & priority of each stakeholder. Knows how to reshuffle, prioritize & front stakeholders who are requesting meeting with the boss. In the event of last minute changes, able to make decisions on the spot and guess 80% who, when where the boss would want to meet first in the event of conflict. Understands boss preferred timings, likes & dislikes on venue, who he now trying to “siam” etc.

Basic Administrator – Order taker. People call to make meeting with boss, you look at Outlook calendar, find an empty slot and key in timing to reserve slot. Boss call & say I wana arrange meeting with so & so, you go call up person & book a timing. Any conflict with multiple stakeholders you call boss & ask what he want.

Travel Arrangements

Exec Secretary – You liase actively with your counterparts in other country to make all necessary arrangement & present your boss his travel itinerary, this often includes sorting out complicated visa requirements, local transport arrangements, liasing with multiple overseas parties to make sure boss can meet whoever he wants over there. Overseas interview for candidates is the worst, bloody problematic & prone to last minute changes. Many times could involve boss family members on private trips as well.

Basic Administrator – Order taker. Boss say need to fly to China next week. You phone travel agent, find out all available flight times and ask what he want. If got corporate hotel, help him reserve a room for required duration.

Above just 2 examples to show you how although you can say both jobs are “managing calendar” & “doing travel arrangement”, the expectation completely different. Just as a guide, secretaries are usually paid $4 - $5k, that’s about 3 times your current level.
Wow, very insightful post!!!

Just curious not sure if you know, for the secretary or the PA career, most people usually start from what sort of job?
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