signing on in army(short term) vs working outside
 

like to hear advises from ppl here, this decision has troubling me for quite sometime and time to make a firm decision.

23this yr, a diploma holder, doing NS in the ARMY now, considering to sign on that comes with a sign-on bonus of $25k. seeing the $25k, it will enable me to take up a degree in the future without getting a bankloan.
starting pay is $2.2k not bad for diploma holder, however i dunno how much is the increment every year.
the minimum term to serve is 4 years, i was thinking doing my part time degree during the 4 years. however, by then ill be 28, w/o any working experience other than army.
my end goal is still getting a degree and working outside. the thought of signing on is because it can prevent me getting into study debts. and of cos a safe income every month.

my other plan in getting a degree is start working then study part time or work part time study full time.

let me know what u guys think, thank you.

do not be lured by the sight of money!

There are also two other ways to pay for a first degree: scholarship/sponsorship and parents' CPF.

I'm also from poly and thought of signing up during NS but in the end chose parents' CPF to pay for a full time degree. Used all my savings and army allowance and some academic part time jobs for expenses during my study. I paid my uni+poly+laptop debt within 7mths after graduation. It's possible but one must be frugal. Didn't spend on unecessary stuff like extra clothes, new handphones, "expensive" dining (incl fastfood), etc. Live a simple life and focus on study/work for that 4yrs.

i dun see why not signing on for 4 years to finance your study.

you are 23 this year.. sign 4 years contract to get your part time degree...

seems to me, its almost the same as those who ORD and studied 4 years in local uni

after graduation all come out still fresh without working experience.

You are embarking on a quest to pursue your life and that's impressive for someone of your age.

I suggest taking up the offer and studying part time whilst in army.

For those who oppose this option, may I ask - what's the viable and betterer suggestion? After all, besides joining the army, he would be working in the private sector and we know that working in the private sector encompass extreme hard work and downsizing of profile by the employers nowadays.

Besides, we are facing an imminent danger of recession in Singapore that may take another few years to form up. The army is a blanket to shelter you from the shocks facing the economy. I don't suppose you would want to worry about your next month paycheck whilst studying for your exams. Even if retrenchment is not on the cards, given your age and starting pay, we would need to be realistic about how the employers squeeze you while retrenching other people! The job market would be bleak, should recession come.

For those who are in semicon industry, you would know that your orders are slowing down since last month, and it takes 6 mths or so before it tickles to the other industries such as banking, manufacturing, shipping, etc.

You are going to study anyway, but the decision is only: in the army, or private sector. Granted, the experience in the army does not bring you many places. But HR is not a pail of water in the toilet - they gauge your degree pay based on the date of which you obtain your degree. Hence, your 'diploma' experience is still, only diploma consideration for them; and that in turn makes your private sector experience irrelevant as well. It would be the same.

Of course, that would depend which industry you are going in. If you are going in Sales line, that wouldn't be a problem because Sales are dictated not by certs, but by solid performance. And that Sales experience is able to be carried forward. Now, if you are thinking, you would say: "But since Sales is based on performance, then what does my cert bring me to?" Precisely! Degree and diploma is not critical in Sales, in number, in figures. It is merely a tool to progress to management.... in the future.

Alot of people suggest that joining the army is as good as eating wasted rice, but that's the idea because you wouldn't want to have a lack of time to study for your degree.

Trust me. Because my wife has been studying for her SIM degree for the past 4 years and have yet to pass because of her work schedule. She always have to make choices to stay back for meetings (after work, mind you), and go classes. If she stayed back in office, she would miss classes. If she went for classes, she would be marked by her superiors because everyone else stayed.

Unless you are confident of finding a job where the schedule matches your preference, the army is a more suitable choice.

This is a good piece of advice.

I have problem with this kind of sweeping statements. This whole long post basically say that private sector sucks, will get retrenched and have to work like a cow while staying in the Army allows you to slack, take good money and have a lot of time to study.
In real life, everyone regardless in private or in Army got very different experience depending on your boss, the culture where you work and your colleagues. You can’t generalize like Private = Bad or Army = Good. For eg. If in some camp that kena some siao on OC/CO that always volunteer his Company or Battalion for some SAF CCA then you can forget about slacking and studying liao, likewise my friend last year win Toto whole camp assigned as part of NDP security, many late nights and weekends burn with no OT pay.
Although private sector got danger of retrenchment, it also allow you to switch jobs much more easily in case you don’t like the boss, company or work hours. If in the Army unit got issue, you are stuck there and very hard to request for transfer to another role or unit.

End of the day, both sides got pro & con, not a straight forward answer like some people say.

TS care to share what vocation you're hoping to sign on as? Spec or Officer?

Army? Navy? Airforce?

It's important to know these details before further advice can be given?

You are also making a sweeping statement that advice that seems like a sweeping statement isn't good advice. If everyone speaks or writes with lots of caveats and ifs and buts, then we all will sound like lawyers. Is this a sweeping statement?

I dun think above poster was asking everyone to caveat or talk like lawyer. He just challenging the assumption on that long post that imply Army is always some zhobolan place and private sector is some slave driver.

For me my advise to TS is if he really have no interest in Army better dun sign up. The few NS friends I have who sign up just to get easy money all regret because later very hard to transit to civilian job.

There are happy ones too.

In any job - private sector, army, civil service, you name it - there will be unhappy employees. Army regulars are more visible cos we males saw with our own eyes the uselessness and wayangness of certain things, pardon my french. Especially when now we have to defend 50% foreigners who don't need to serve a !@#$% single day.

My point is that we males associate lots of negativity with the armed forces, and naturally we are more biased when comparing an army career with a civilian one.

That said, I do have a friend who still likes his army career a lot despite being just a specialist. Another friend is also quite happy in the police force.

Why not join a stat board instead of the army?
A stat board is great place for diploma holders to pursue their part-time degrees.. though the pay may not be super high for a diploma holder since you will just be a management support staff but the environment is conclusive for furthering your education.. Seldom need to work late so you can leave on time for your night classes...
Furthermore, since the government is always pro-upgrading.. the ministry have to support this ethos also.. some stats boards will grant you 12 days of study leave every year to go for your exam preparation... Unlikely got retrenchment.. you just have to stay focus and endure thru the 4 years..
And if your performance is good during your stay with them, they might even offer you a graduate post after you finish your degree...
However if you still want to leave the place anyway... chances is that it might be easier to get a job with your stat board experience than with army experience....
This is just sharing from my personal experience... i almost signed on with the air-force after ORD but later decided not to..
Already graduated and got em-placed into a graduate job.... But still... what had worked for me might not work for you... You might decide that Army suit you more... So i guess you have to decide what you want yah.. Good luck...

I'm a specialist. In the army now. I can say not much interests la except I'm ok with the life here. But Sometimes u do the same thing too many times it can become really really sian.

I'm just very concerned abt the next 4yrs, comparing signon option I will be without debts and maybe even have quite abit of money to spend without worrying much, although I assume army equals to zero work experience outside. Also the fear of getting too sian of the thing in army because many times I feel it's pointless just wayang kind.
Another option comes with debts of abt $18k for sim degree, but I have 2yrs of full time work skills w my diploma and 2 yrs of part time skills while I study for the degree.

Stat board has a contract of 4 years also?
Anyway any example of company under stat board? Is it just civil service job?

This is good advice... obviously if TS parents are v rich, he won't ask this kind of question. Its because his family is not well to do so he is considering to go down this path.

I would say really go and examine your financial situation. Borrow is better than letting the army sponsor. I borrowed $20k for my uni studies and paid them off within one yr.

Liverpool you dam funny leh, in the post you quote recommend staying in the army for $$$ and do nothing while studying for degree <- you say is good advice. Then followed by next line recommend borrow $$$ better than join army...

lol what I meant was that the person I quoted posted good advice for considerations only...

but if its up to me, I will borrow but then again I am not TS family, maybe his family really hard off and trying to make ends meet so sign on is a better option...

Sign on or working outside
 

Deadrick,
I think i can help to answer your doubt.

I was 22 yrs old four years back. I signed the short term contract with the SAF as an Army Officer(2 Years) and serve a total of 4 years in the Force. I'm 26 now and I'm currently working in HSBC and will soon be heading to UOB Kay Hian or Kim Eng Securities in future.

You are probably facing the same situation as mine (When i was 22).
1. Our family are unable to fund our future education.
2. How do i pay for my degree course? should i sign on?
3. Fear of irrelevant skills to compete in the commercial world.
4. Late start. (Later then most of my male friends)
5. I don't really want to serve long in Army, just want the money for degree.


Let's start with my experience on the signing on in SAF first

Pros:
First of all, yes, Your starting pay will be ~$2.2K for Officer. Specialist will be also above $2k as well.
You will probably earn ~$2.9K by the time you are Full lieutenant (3rd-4th year) as of what i experienced. So you will probably get ~$50K (with bonus) through out the years of proper saving and that's excluding the sign on bonus of $25k.
This amount will give you a kick start faster then most of your friends and settle your degree fee. But be careful, alot of my army colleagues went to buy themselves a car and end up spending all. So you really got to exercise proper money management.

Cons:
Outfields, outfields and outfields. Guard duties(e.g Camp/Complex Duty Officer). You will not have enough time for going to lessons. If you already on a part time degree, you will definitely miss out many lessons. My friend failed miserably and took 5 years to complete his studies in SIM.


Q1: FUNDING FOR DEGREE FEE?
If your concern is funding for a degree? There are many banks out there willing to offer you Student Loan and the rates are really good. You can start paying the loan back after you landed a job with your degree. I took RHB Student Loan. Lowest rate i can find.

Don't consider loaning from banks as a debt, they are there to help and assist you getting a degree.


Q2: SERVING IN ARMED FORCES WITH IRRELEVANT SKILLS?
As of your concern whether Armed Forces has relevant skills in commercial? Yes.
If you are an Officer/Specialist, you will gain managerial skills through out the NS period. Engaging with people, learn to work with people from staff and management level. Planning, organize and managing small or large group of people. Gain confidence and etc. I had an offer in Certis Cisco for an Inspector position after I ORDed (Although i did not accept, because i'm not heading to that career path). They are offering me $3000 - $3500 + additional monthly incentive up to 1 month pay. It was relatively a good starting pay i have to admit.


Probably you want to see the situation is this way

1. If I SIGN ON...

Pros:
Take part time course while in the Armed Forces. Probably can acquire degree faster and some accumulate some savings.

Cons:
But has possibilities that you will miss out many lessons (Depends on your Unit, Mine is okay). You will probably fail some modules due to the high commitment in the armed forces, and might need to extent your degree duration.


2. If I don't and starts to WORK NOW...

Pros:
Take part time course while taking up some admin or support roles in the related field to your degree. stack up 1 or 2 years relevant experience in the field you want to go into. Commitment probably lesser (Because job scope is very generalized). Probably have more time for the study of your degree.

Cons:
Does not have the assurance to pay up your degree when pursuing it. But if you SAVE UP properly, it is not an issue anymore.


Whether your Armed Forces experiences can consider as an experience really depends how smart you pen it down in your resume and articulate it well in your interview.

There are many articles in the internet on transition from military experience to commercial experience. This is also a good article for those who are in the Armed Forces now and going to Civilian workplace soon.

"Military to Civilian
How To Best Present Yourself to Companies"

Military to Civilian Transition - Marketing Yourself to Companies


The question is getting your degree FAST with GOOD GRADES. That would probably leads you to a better salaried job in near future.

Don't worry too much about the money, worry on getting good degree is the priority.

Hope this sharing helps. Good luck to you and your studies.

You should just sign on and stay in the army. Seriously, it is iron rice bowl and guaranteed minimum 5k as warrant officer by 40 as long as no major screw up.

Why bother to join army then get out? By that time you will be in late 20s without relevant experience and a useless part time degree trying to fight with all the early 20s local and foregin full time uni grads.

Come out take pay cut, less bonus (unless in a bank), less benefits and from tekaning NSF to dio tekan by some manager, think carefully before doing stupid things.

do married regulars get to stay out 8-5?

No need married. Regular >2SG gets to stay out. But if your camp is so far, why bother? Also, certain units don't even require you to stay in.

hi. i am a nsf,20, diploma grad, currently in sispec ( now called scs) for my foundation term.

i have thethought of signing on long time ago, short term.

to be honest, i am attracted to the bounty sum, $25k. thats alot of money. thats more or less like a annual income for a diploma grad. the starting pay is good also, and is told by my enciks the starting pay for dip grad have raised also.

whats stopping me from signing is the work curriculum. my main priority is to be get a pt degree durng my service. i dun intend to serve long, just wannbe a farmer.

i am interested in signing on as medic spec. is there any experienced spec or lao jiao can enlighten me about the curriculum or life of a spec. i am afraid i have no time for part study. thats my main issue.

and also, may i know which vocation curriculum is the most flexible one?

Join the commando unit.. the unit with the most freedom to study.. Confirm u get a 1st class honors degree!! Guaranteed!!

For a diploma grad, it may make sense to sign on as an officer, but as a spec, I will think long and hard.

The main thing is that the experience is not likely to be relevant to any respectable white collar civilian job you may want to do in the future (which is why many regulars end up as insurance agents, real estate agents, taxi drivers or hawkers) although the money is admittedly attractive if you are looking for funding for your degree.

As an officer, its really quite attractive. First, you wil get your captain rank after a year of getting your degree, and thats a high 3 to 5k pay package. Within 6 to 8 years, you can look to get your major rank, which is a 6 to 9k pay package.

If you do not mess up in a big way, your expected rank by retirement is LTC, which is not bad, with low 5 digit monthly pay package, not to mention contract extension bonuses thru the course of your career and about 3 months annual bonuses, which is not bad by any standard.

If want to sign on, at least sign on those vocations where your skills can be transferred to the outside world, e.g. technician. Knew of 2 friends who signed on as technicians and now working at engineering-related MNCs.

sign on with air force positions. almost all positions give you transferable skills.

Hell yes. I agree totally. I was in the Air Force during NS, and I was actually able to use the IT training they gave me to get a temp job. It paid well and I was working the day after I left the camp.

Also, people joke about how air force is all paperwork. Let them be garang if they want. The air force paperwork teaches you a million things about office life, not least of which, learning how to make power points, use excel, type faster, etc. etc.

I would have to say it is a Yes/No case, because not all vocation are as suitable as it is. Some vocation offer time flexibility, but most not. It require time and commitment.

Wish to know more on what are your options, drop me a note at:

[email protected]

I ask this because i intend to sign on and study pt degree which most of us intend to. Which vocation can allow this flexibility like 8-5 ? And which vocations have skills that is transferable to normal cillivian life?

Signing on as regular is quite subjective to people. After signing the bond, some straight away regrets. Because lack of freedom, too many guard duties, always jo bo lan (do nothing), and tons of useless project (so called improvement). Some even drag wearing the uniform in public places. Some decided to break bonds, but only to find that they can be released only at the last year of services. Some prefer to sign on forever, since it is stable, good bonus, not much stress, relax lifestyles, some can work shifts, etc. Some ppl just like to rot in it, so they like to stay inside as a regular. It all depends on the individual.

You should decide whether you want to continue the bond only after you sign the first contracts. No one can reallly decide for you.

I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.

The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.

Thanks for sharing your experience, this is quite the same as my journey as well although I'm from Army.

When I first leave the Army at 30 years old, I underestimated the transition and difficulties ahead.Somehow assume that employers will prefer me as a manager as I have a lot of leadership experience managing a lot of people on the ground. I figured I was leading 90+ men under me with 10 years experience compared to my peers who a lot of them are not even managers yet.

Naively applied for some managerial jobs and either no reply or never make it past first interview. Was actually getting very frustrated after 8 months of jobless until I met an honest enough HR guy to finally tell me what was wrong.

He told me what I had in the army was authority granted to me by the organization, not leadership skills. In pte sector, good managers need to use a combination of bribe, plea, threat, incentive and praise to manage downwards & upwards depending on situation. Throughout the interview I displayed no understanding of this and they could tell that I simply assume that since I had the was employed as manager, I will ask my team to do this do that etc.

Took a steep paycut and start from fresh by joining as a marketing senior executive. Now progress to leading a department & I understand how different managing a diverse group of people who may or may not report to you directly is compared to planning schedules, barking orders at NSF & Specs when I was in Army.

Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?

I believe a lot of regulars leave the forces to work as property agents. Some agents I met address me as "sir".

Aircraft Snr Tech. I think it is quite similar to what the Aerospace guys are doing now.

Are you serious????? Army management isn't management at all! My Enciks and OCs were the reasons why I knew I made the wrong decision to sign onto the airforce. They always pass down the **** and never took responsibility or defend their men when things go wrong. Always blame the specialists, blame the situation, blame the environment but never willing to own up to their lack of sense and judgement. (I think they watch too much Singapore soccer; they are pretty much like the coaches) I knew there was nothing to learn from them the first year I entered proper into the ..... In fact, I was very certain as long as I do their opposite and grow bigger balls and be a more responsible person, I will go a lot further than them. In the army, it's all about passing the buck, no one's really solving problems. Smart people will wait, observe and then stay away or work as little as possible. Idiots will work hard and think they will be recognized or shoot for yearly "performance (wayang) bonus" of 2-3 months, peanuts (7k?). You find 1 guy working and 9 guys staring usually. Out of the 9 guys, 7 are just plain stupid and lazy, while 2 are really clever and were focusing on what's out rather than what's in.

Many studied, few succeeded in changing lines. Because you don't learn social skills. You can survive outside because you don't grow balls inside. You follow blindly and think the world is managed by rules and regulations on you. And yes, you are "managed" by fear and intimidation.