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28-12-2024, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Why should the company be responsible to retrain others? You should be retraining yourself, gain experience at other firms or gov owned companies then only come work for us in private sector. So that you don't screw things up for us and you can hit the ground running. Please remember accounting firms and partners are for profit organisation. We are not retraining centers or schools.
The government need to understand this and ensure talent pipeline by loosening FTs.
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If government allows unlimited foreigners, in the short term, audit firms and commercial will benefit from reduced labour costs
But with an overly competitive environment over long term, will you trust a cheap audit manager to be sufficiently competent to produce quality files for the PMP reviewer without your manual intervention as a partner?
For some companies, there are now cases of non-accounting trained employees doing accounting work. Even Big 4 is accepting non-accountancy graduates to be auditors (albeit with study pathway).
Only the CFO/Finance Director equivalent is to be accounting trained. Do you think all stakeholders can still have reasonable assurance that FS is free from material mis-statements with limited oversight?
The amount of accounting scandals will definitely go up in future...only a matter of whether its uncovered or not.
I really fear for our accountancy pipeline.
I proposed limiting foreign talents and raising the Big 4 salaries in Singapore to be similar to USA ($6.5k SGD after taxes for A1) as cost of living in SG is higher
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28-12-2024, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMWer
If government allows unlimited foreigners, in the short term, audit firms and commercial will benefit from reduced labour costs
But with an overly competitive environment over long term, will you trust a cheap audit manager to be sufficiently competent to produce quality files for the PMP reviewer without your manual intervention as a partner?
For some companies, there are now cases of non-accounting trained employees doing accounting work. Even Big 4 is accepting non-accountancy graduates to be auditors (albeit with study pathway).
Only the CFO/Finance Director equivalent is to be accounting trained. Do you think all stakeholders can still have reasonable assurance that FS is free from material mis-statements with limited oversight?
The amount of accounting scandals will definitely go up in future...only a matter of whether its uncovered or not.
I really fear for our accountancy pipeline.
I proposed limiting foreign talents and raising the Big 4 salaries in Singapore to be similar to USA ($6.5k SGD after taxes for A1) as cost of living in SG is higher
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Sorry its 5.5k to 6k after taxes
Our salaries should be benchmarked with USA and EU instead of Malaysia/Indonesia
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28-12-2024, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMWer
If government allows unlimited foreigners, in the short term, audit firms and commercial will benefit from reduced labour costs
But with an overly competitive environment over long term, will you trust a cheap audit manager to be sufficiently competent to produce quality files for the PMP reviewer without your manual intervention as a partner?
For some companies, there are now cases of non-accounting trained employees doing accounting work. Even Big 4 is accepting non-accountancy graduates to be auditors (albeit with study pathway).
Only the CFO/Finance Director equivalent is to be accounting trained. Do you think all stakeholders can still have reasonable assurance that FS is free from material mis-statements with limited oversight?
The amount of accounting scandals will definitely go up in future...only a matter of whether its uncovered or not.
I really fear for our accountancy pipeline.
I proposed limiting foreign talents and raising the Big 4 salaries in Singapore to be similar to USA ($6.5k SGD after taxes for A1) as cost of living in SG is higher
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What nonsense is this. This nation i.e. Singapore has historically thrived BECAUSE of immigration. First there was the malays from nearby islands then came the Indians and Chinese wave. Then came the Brits. That's a historical fact.
Secondly, any FT can easily do auditing job. The notion that only Singaporean has the quality to do the job is quite honestly, pure nonsense. We're talking about auditing, not rocket science. Any well trained monkey can do the job. For much less. Singaporeans grad has the disadvantage of being expensive, lazy and unmotivated and difficult to work with. Its simply bad for business to hire a local Singaporean
The government being pro business MUST realise this. Making accounting firms or any business hire Singaporean first will only cause us business owner to offshore majority of jobs and relocate majority of SG workforce to JB once the RTS is up snd running thereby depriving the nation off taxes. In the end SG will end up with businsses with 3 staff office in Singapore while the rest of the workforce would be in Malaysia JB. The PAP government needs to think long and hard about this. Start by abolishing quotas for
FT and enact more FT friendly policies.
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28-12-2024, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMWer
Sorry its 5.5k to 6k after taxes
Our salaries should be benchmarked with USA and EU instead of Malaysia/Indonesia
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We should be benchmarked against our neighbours i.e. Malaysia and Indonesia not EU/USA
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28-12-2024, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
What nonsense is this. This nation i.e. Singapore has historically thrived BECAUSE of immigration. First there was the malays from nearby islands then came the Indians and Chinese wave. Then came the Brits. That's a historical fact.
Secondly, any FT can easily do auditing job. The notion that only Singaporean has the quality to do the job is quite honestly, pure nonsense. We're talking about auditing, not rocket science. Any well trained monkey can do the job. For much less. Singaporeans grad has the disadvantage of being expensive, lazy and unmotivated and difficult to work with. Its simply bad for business to hire a local Singaporean
The government being pro business MUST realise this. Making accounting firms or any business hire Singaporean first will only cause us business owner to offshore majority of jobs and relocate majority of SG workforce to JB once the RTS is up snd running thereby depriving the nation off taxes. In the end SG will end up with businsses with 3 staff office in Singapore while the rest of the workforce would be in Malaysia JB. The PAP government needs to think long and hard about this. Start by abolishing quotas for
FT and enact more FT friendly policies.
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Thats the entire problem in a nutshell.
There is a limit to immigration, Singapore has already achieved its identity after 1965 and does not need immigration that do not benefit the existing bunch of citizens.
Given unlimited immigration, it will cause gini coefficient to go haywire with greater disparity between the rich and poor, eg. 90 million GCB vs 500k HDB flat. We need a society that can focus on limiting the wealth gap and to enable those who are currently poor to benefit by having more wealth distribution as Singapore belongs to Singaporeans.
If the government has benefitted by having a wider tax base, then affected industries like accountancy should have even greater subsidies for MBA and Masters in Accountancy/Finance/Taxation
There are Singaporeans who work really hard as well, even though the effort does not match the cost of living standards that we want. Its a losing battle over time for worklife balance. We still need to see our family at the end of the day and check on our kids and wife in spite of this losing battle with time and money.
For us here in salary.sg, we have also done our National Service and reservist duties in order to ensure the smooth running of this country.
For some of us in accountancy, we work long hours and put in equal effort yet for some salaries do not match 60% of what is drawn by top lawyers and top doctors. Yet we are subject to the same professional scrutiny as lawyers and doctors.
If we make a single mistake (i have never made mistakes before), we end up losing our credibility too.
If you are receiving money made in SG, its only ethical that the associated labour costs be matched to Singapore labour base as well.
After Covid, many companies realised its possible for SG CFO roles to be offshored with zero finance staff in Singapore.
For law and medicine, its tough for work to be offshored due to the localised nature. For Lawyers, they have to be proficient and qualified in local caselaws and statutes & Doctors need be physically present & professionally qualified in Singapore for treatment and consultation yet for accountancy it is possible to be totally offshored due to the global nature of IFRS.
For higher ranked commercial roles, we still need to spend additional money to get MBA and compete with others with MBA and/or CFA.
If the government can do barriers to entry for law and medicine, and since accountancy has zero barriers to entry, why can't the government do more to protect accountancy ricebowls?
End of the day, only public accountants and tax/insolvency practitioners based in SG will benefit the most as they can have their pie and eat it at same time without overseas threats.
We want an ISCA x NUS MBA at 50% subsidy & we need to propose similar MBA program to help ISCA members to achieve greater success
Thus for this reason our salaries need to be benchmarked to USA and EU labour costs, and not be affected by countries like Indonesia/Malaysia with cheaper costs and easy accountancy access.
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28-12-2024, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
What nonsense is this. This nation i.e. Singapore has historically thrived BECAUSE of immigration. First there was the malays from nearby islands then came the Indians and Chinese wave. Then came the Brits. That's a historical fact.
Secondly, any FT can easily do auditing job. The notion that only Singaporean has the quality to do the job is quite honestly, pure nonsense. We're talking about auditing, not rocket science. Any well trained monkey can do the job. For much less. Singaporeans grad has the disadvantage of being expensive, lazy and unmotivated and difficult to work with. Its simply bad for business to hire a local Singaporean
The government being pro business MUST realise this. Making accounting firms or any business hire Singaporean first will only cause us business owner to offshore majority of jobs and relocate majority of SG workforce to JB once the RTS is up snd running thereby depriving the nation off taxes. In the end SG will end up with businsses with 3 staff office in Singapore while the rest of the workforce would be in Malaysia JB. The PAP government needs to think long and hard about this. Start by abolishing quotas for
FT and enact more FT friendly policies.
|
Thats the entire problem in a nutshell.
There is a limit to immigration, Singapore has already achieved its identity after 1965 and does not need immigration that do not benefit the existing bunch of citizens.
Given unlimited immigration, it will cause gini coefficient to go haywire with greater disparity between the rich and poor, eg. 90 million GCB vs 500k HDB flat. We need a society that can focus on limiting the wealth gap and to enable those who are currently poor to benefit by having more wealth distribution as Singapore belongs to Singaporeans.
If the government has benefitted by having a wider tax base, then affected industries like accountancy should have even greater subsidies for MBA and Masters in Accountancy/Finance/Taxation
There are Singaporeans who work really hard as well, even though the effort does not match the cost of living standards that we want. Its a losing battle over time for worklife balance. We still need to see our family at the end of the day and check on our kids and wife in spite of this losing battle with time and money.
For us here in salary.sg, we have also done our National Service and reservist duties in order to ensure the smooth running of this country.
For some of us in accountancy, we work long hours and put in equal effort yet for some salaries do not match 60% of what is drawn by top lawyers and top doctors. Yet we are subject to the same professional scrutiny as lawyers and doctors.
If we make a single mistake (i have never made mistakes before), we end up losing our credibility too.
If you are receiving money made in SG, its only ethical that the associated labour costs be matched to Singapore labour base as well.
After Covid, many companies realised its possible for SG CFO roles to be offshored with zero finance staff in Singapore.
For law and medicine, its tough for work to be offshored due to the localised nature. For Lawyers, they have to be proficient and qualified in local caselaws and statutes & Doctors need be physically present & professionally qualified in Singapore for treatment and consultation yet for accountancy it is possible to be totally offshored due to the global nature of IFRS.
For higher ranked commercial roles, we still need to spend additional money to get MBA and compete with others with MBA and/or CFA.
If the government can do barriers to entry for law and medicine, and since accountancy has zero barriers to entry, why can't the government do more to protect accountancy ricebowls?
End of the day, only public accountants and tax/insolvency practitioners based in SG will benefit the most as they can have their pie and eat it at same time without overseas threats.
We want an ISCA x NUS MBA at 50% subsidy & we need to propose similar MBA program to help ISCA members to achieve greater success
Thus for this reason our salaries need to be benchmarked to USA and EU labour costs, and not be affected by countries like Indonesia/Malaysia with cheaper costs and easy accountancy access.
Cheers
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28-12-2024, 01:28 PM
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|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMWer
If government allows unlimited foreigners, in the short term, audit firms and commercial will benefit from reduced labour costs
But with an overly competitive environment over long term, will you trust a cheap audit manager to be sufficiently competent to produce quality files for the PMP reviewer without your manual intervention as a partner?
For some companies, there are now cases of non-accounting trained employees doing accounting work. Even Big 4 is accepting non-accountancy graduates to be auditors (albeit with study pathway).
Only the CFO/Finance Director equivalent is to be accounting trained. Do you think all stakeholders can still have reasonable assurance that FS is free from material mis-statements with limited oversight?
The amount of accounting scandals will definitely go up in future...only a matter of whether its uncovered or not.
I really fear for our accountancy pipeline.
I proposed limiting foreign talents and raising the Big 4 salaries in Singapore to be similar to USA ($6.5k SGD after taxes for A1) as cost of living in SG is higher
|
Thats the entire problem in a nutshell.
There is a limit to immigration, Singapore has already achieved its identity after 1965 and does not need immigration that do not benefit the existing bunch of citizens.
Given unlimited immigration, it will cause gini coefficient to go haywire with greater disparity between the rich and poor, eg. 90 million GCB vs 500k HDB flat. We need a society that can focus on limiting the wealth gap and to enable those who are currently poor to benefit by having more wealth distribution as Singapore belongs to Singaporeans.
If the government has benefitted by having a wider tax base, then affected industries like accountancy should have even greater subsidies for MBA and Masters in Accountancy/Finance/Taxation
There are Singaporeans who work really hard as well, even though the effort does not match the cost of living standards that we want. Its a losing battle over time for worklife balance. We still need to see our family at the end of the day and check on our kids and wife in spite of this losing battle with time and money.
For us here in salary.sg, we have also done our National Service and reservist duties in order to ensure the smooth running of this country.
For some of us in accountancy, we work long hours and put in equal effort yet for some salaries do not match 60% of what is drawn by top lawyers and top doctors. Yet we are subject to the same professional scrutiny as lawyers and doctors.
If we make a single mistake (i have never made mistakes before), we end up losing our credibility too.
If you are receiving money made in SG, its only ethical that the associated labour costs be matched to Singapore labour base as well.
After Covid, many companies realised its possible for SG CFO roles to be offshored with zero finance staff in Singapore.
For law and medicine, its tough for work to be offshored due to the localised nature. For Lawyers, they have to be proficient and qualified in local caselaws and statutes & Doctors need be physically present & professionally qualified in Singapore for treatment and consultation yet for accountancy it is possible to be totally offshored due to the global nature of IFRS.
For higher ranked commercial roles, we still need to spend additional money to get MBA and compete with others with MBA and/or CFA.
If the government can do barriers to entry for law and medicine, and since accountancy has zero barriers to entry, why can't the government do more to protect accountancy ricebowls?
End of the day, only public accountants and tax/insolvency practitioners based in SG will benefit the most as they can have their pie and eat it at same time without overseas threats.
We want an ISCA x NUS MBA at 50% subsidy & we need to propose similar MBA program to help ISCA members to achieve greater success
Thus for this reason our salaries need to be benchmarked to USA and EU labour costs, and not be affected by countries like Indonesia/Malaysia with cheaper costs and easy accountancy access.
Cheers
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28-12-2024, 02:59 PM
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i find this EDMW guy quite pathetic
U cant change the industry when the only way to win an audit client is to low ball the audit fee
Partners are no longer seen as salesman, they belong to the karanguni batch
just sweep up all leftover audit clients at low fees, underpay your staff by making them work crazy hours. BINGO
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28-12-2024, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
i find this EDMW guy quite pathetic
U cant change the industry when the only way to win an audit client is to low ball the audit fee
Partners are no longer seen as salesman, they belong to the karanguni batch
just sweep up all leftover audit clients at low fees, underpay your staff by making them work crazy hours. BINGO
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Thats why alot of us always end up eating myojo/nissin seafood cup noodles in office at 11pm for dinner while client eat actual seafood for D&D and gatherings
I am proud to say i have even tried the entire range of indonesian, chinese, japanese, korean & taiwanese cup noodles
From myojo/nissin perspective, i am quite sure myojo/nissin have high revenue exposure to auditors
Client side also have big problem, client CFO will always try to bring down audit fee to make his KPI look good as CFO understands the cost drivers
Doesnt make sense for client CFO to justify as he will always argue that the accounts are true and fair & well documented and audit is recurring since he has to approve the audit fees. If audit fees are high, it will reflect badly on his financial reporting ability.
Inflation based fee adjustment is not clear cut to justify and even client revenue based fee adjustment may not occur all the time & disproportionate to actual timecost.
The work done by all audit firms involves similar processes to achieve end results. To the client CEO, audit fees is definitely similar to a form of maintenance charges
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28-12-2024, 11:04 PM
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lol i control my CFO
never met a CFO that can do work
most are incompetent
they beg me to stay because i carry the entire finance team
pay raise also have to give me when i ask for it
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