Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Many stories here are reflective of the real circumstances associate or seniors felt during their tenure. I believe fresh grads are curious about the actual big 4 culture instead of listening to beautiful arts painted by the senior managers or partners.

ACRA and ISCA should do more to ensure the continuity of this profession by influencing how big 4 works. Imagine senior managers being the most experienced, earning high salaries but only reviewing work and not involved in actual field work. You expect public to have faith in fieldwork done by seniors and fresh grads with less than 3 years experience? While managers review work and make partners comforable… So why would seniors earning significantly less than senior managers but work longer hours resolving field work and clearing review notes? This is a fundamental question to be solved. Only seniors are motivated because they see themselves becoming managers and carry on the toxic cultures. Many of the nicest colleague i have seen decided to depart due to them not being able to carry on this toxic culture. I am so sure many agree with me on this.

What would you suggest?

For one, we cannot have SMs doing fieldwork because nobody wants to do it forever. We are selling “hope” to the associates that they will eventually promote and get to stop doing it.

Second, SMs hold portfolios of clients, so they are stretched and can’t spend the full day at a single client site. If you want to make SM portfolio lighter, that means hiring more people. Again not sustainable when client not willing to pay higher fees so you can support SM salaries.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I’ve left audit, so it’s not my problem or concern anymore.

But I do believe this thread has to bear some responsibility for the current state of things because if you google for stories in B4 you will come to this thread.

And all the juniors are quite impressionable, they may have read some stories here and turned away.

Thats why i encourage auditors in SG to go big 4 nordic countries

now with DEI hiring policy and workplace inclusivity, maybe peak hour 4pm can go home already and still get 2 months leave per year to stare at northern lights until vomit

Having all the expat pics in IG and facebook is already a big win among peers

Can come back with a nice accent somemore to have a different personal branding

Bonus if you marry one of them and get to live there permanently, your future kids will be
thankful for leaving this competitive pressure cooker

Originally Posted by EDMWer

Thats why i encourage auditors in SG to go big 4 nordic countries

now with DEI hiring policy and workplace inclusivity, maybe peak hour 4pm can go home already and still get 2 months leave per year to stare at northern lights until vomit

Having all the expat pics in IG and facebook is already a big win among peers

Can come back with a nice accent somemore to have a different personal branding

Bonus if you marry one of them and get to live there permanently, your future kids will be
thankful for leaving this competitive pressure cooker

Then when you come back you can ask for expat pay package

If HR argue say tax rate different, you can always counter by saying sg property, food and vehicle prices high thus all things balanced out in terms of discretionary income

Then can also state that sing dollar is weak compared to ang moh currencies

Partners don’t even care

Just quiet quit and fo the minimum to survive

lol what transferable skills u talking about? vouching? analytical review? issue review points? manage your senior and junior? wait now managers do field work cos no manpower.

you leave audit without any commercial knowledge, dont know accounting system, only know how to pick samples and check FS, wait nowadays audit quality so cui i think they got problem reviewing FS, yet alone do. there is a reason no locals want to do, its because no life. Next thing u know u are in your mid 30s with nothing but a decent pay check and you are but a shell. u forgot what hobbies are like. U think commercial want to hire u become FM? so expensive but no skills. U cant leave audit because u are too expensive and u continue this life until you are in your mid 40s and realize u missed out on your kids birthday, parents funeral.

u lost your life to grow your salary to 8-9k? worth it? and u stagnate unless u become partner. u cant leave. your skills are too generic and nothing specialized. u spend your day trying to book staff when no one joins and all your competent seniors quit, assuming there are any.

u look around you and realize there are no singaporeans, only malaysians who speak in broken chinese and you have to OT as much as them because they are motivated with 3:1 while your exchange rate is 1:1 at best. you end up marrying a malaysian girl and develop their weird chinese speaking accent.

What branding does big 4 provide? just leave as senior if branding is so important. whether u leave as manager or senior, u have your branding. and once u are a senior, your knowledge level is as good as your managers if u know what i mean.

your skills deteriorate once u are manager because u lost touch of how to use excel as you spend your days reviewing working paper only. when you leave for commercial, u realize u cannot cope because you havent been using excel for so long, your accountants and senior accountants look down and dont respect u for being just a people manager, but never help with work

big 4 doesnt pay your enough for the amount of hours u work. just count. aren't all accountants/ auditors good with numbers? must I get a mcdonald employee to do it for u

Theres a reason why seniors do senior level work and juniors do junior level work
The speed of comprehension, technical competency, speed of testing and documentation all plays apart. This will determine how late u sleep at night.

There is no difference between peak and off peak now. Its whole year peak unless u are bad. When u lack manpower, thats whole year peak for u.

Client have 1 year of cooking of the books to do their financials and auditor have less than a month to audit them

My dear student, have u tried not sleeping for days on end? have u tried doing nothing for an entire week but work and sleep? your weekends are burnt doing catch up, you take MC to catch up on back log. Try doing that for months? Are u ready to throw your life away for your branding? Branding to what? commercial? industry is invaded by malaysians by now, low balled to the sky.


You cannot apply leave during peak period, but nowadays u cannot apply leave at all if u are booked unless u get permission from your manager. are you ok with bringing your laptop overseas? when you fall sick and take MC, does your workload decrease? the peers i used to work with spend their sick days doing work. because client and partner ain't gonna wait for u to recover and continue, there are statutory deadlines to meet, group auditors to report to.

Wanna guess what happens if u miss those deadlines? Your entire year's worth of work will be gone during promotions, you will be left out and any broken english malaysian will be promoted all because he stayed in office. Not because he is working, but because his rented shared room in woodlands is too small and he cant on air con until after 10pm.

are you singaporean students so naive as to compete with them? These said malaysians are those who have abandoned their fams in malaysia to compete with us locals, driven by 3.5 exchange rate, do u think it is worth it to even compete with them? these malaysians won't bother teaching u associates, they would rather side their own and throw all the heavy work to you locals.

ok lets say u promote to manager and want to leave for commercial. FINALLY.
you join a random SME, MNC as FM.
I can tell you competency of people is an issue here. you AR/AP accounts executive is probably a ACCA study half way, diploma holder or some malaysian cert. you cant expect them to do any heavy lifting because their brain is just smaller. No exposure to audit experience.

Your accountant will always be missing. especially before the year end audit takes place. Underpaid, no growth opportunities, high stress, high workload. and you as the FM will have difficulty finding a replacement unless you join an MNC with a good reputation that people want to join. You will be living on borrowed time, meaning you performance as an FM/accountant will be based on how smooth the audit proceeds. You can have your work life balance from Mar to Dec, but every Jan to Feb when audit starts, you will realize that your work life balance is based on a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

There is no future in this industry. Malaysians have screwed u all over by the low barrier of entry and our partners greed for high returns, that is why most of them are panicking now that our gov raise EP requirements. Do u auditors think your salary should be decided by the mere whimp of the government?

Dont believe the cool aid of what high growth BS people say about big 4. As long as you are trading time for money, your salary per hour is low. the long hours/ no work life balance/ high stress. totally not worth it. Just look at your managers, they are stuck. ask them why they have yet to leave, they are stuck.

What 1 month bonus? 1.5 month bonus? for great performance? how many jobs do u have to close for that 1.5 month high performance bonus? Does the math add up? u would earn much more by doing grab food on weekends and screw your jobs. thats assuming are able to close your jobs on time or just meet bare minimum promotion requirements

Yawn. Boring everyday same old ppl complaining

Originally Posted by Unregistered

lol what transferable skills u talking about? vouching? analytical review? issue review points? manage your senior and junior? wait now managers do field work cos no manpower.

you leave audit without any commercial knowledge, dont know accounting system, only know how to pick samples and check FS, wait nowadays audit quality so cui i think they got problem reviewing FS, yet alone do. there is a reason no locals want to do, its because no life. Next thing u know u are in your mid 30s with nothing but a decent pay check and you are but a shell. u forgot what hobbies are like. U think commercial want to hire u become FM? so expensive but no skills. U cant leave audit because u are too expensive and u continue this life until you are in your mid 40s and realize u missed out on your kids birthday, parents funeral.

u lost your life to grow your salary to 8-9k? worth it? and u stagnate unless u become partner. u cant leave. your skills are too generic and nothing specialized. u spend your day trying to book staff when no one joins and all your competent seniors quit, assuming there are any.

u look around you and realize there are no singaporeans, only malaysians who speak in broken chinese and you have to OT as much as them because they are motivated with 3:1 while your exchange rate is 1:1 at best. you end up marrying a malaysian girl and develop their weird chinese speaking accent.

What branding does big 4 provide? just leave as senior if branding is so important. whether u leave as manager or senior, u have your branding. and once u are a senior, your knowledge level is as good as your managers if u know what i mean.

your skills deteriorate once u are manager because u lost touch of how to use excel as you spend your days reviewing working paper only. when you leave for commercial, u realize u cannot cope because you havent been using excel for so long, your accountants and senior accountants look down and dont respect u for being just a people manager, but never help with work

big 4 doesnt pay your enough for the amount of hours u work. just count. aren't all accountants/ auditors good with numbers? must I get a mcdonald employee to do it for u

Theres a reason why seniors do senior level work and juniors do junior level work
The speed of comprehension, technical competency, speed of testing and documentation all plays apart. This will determine how late u sleep at night.

There is no difference between peak and off peak now. Its whole year peak unless u are bad. When u lack manpower, thats whole year peak for u.

Client have 1 year of cooking of the books to do their financials and auditor have less than a month to audit them

My dear student, have u tried not sleeping for days on end? have u tried doing nothing for an entire week but work and sleep? your weekends are burnt doing catch up, you take MC to catch up on back log. Try doing that for months? Are u ready to throw your life away for your branding? Branding to what? commercial? industry is invaded by malaysians by now, low balled to the sky.


You cannot apply leave during peak period, but nowadays u cannot apply leave at all if u are booked unless u get permission from your manager. are you ok with bringing your laptop overseas? when you fall sick and take MC, does your workload decrease? the peers i used to work with spend their sick days doing work. because client and partner ain't gonna wait for u to recover and continue, there are statutory deadlines to meet, group auditors to report to.

Wanna guess what happens if u miss those deadlines? Your entire year's worth of work will be gone during promotions, you will be left out and any broken english malaysian will be promoted all because he stayed in office. Not because he is working, but because his rented shared room in woodlands is too small and he cant on air con until after 10pm.

are you singaporean students so naive as to compete with them? These said malaysians are those who have abandoned their fams in malaysia to compete with us locals, driven by 3.5 exchange rate, do u think it is worth it to even compete with them? these malaysians won't bother teaching u associates, they would rather side their own and throw all the heavy work to you locals.

ok lets say u promote to manager and want to leave for commercial. FINALLY.
you join a random SME, MNC as FM.
I can tell you competency of people is an issue here. you AR/AP accounts executive is probably a ACCA study half way, diploma holder or some malaysian cert. you cant expect them to do any heavy lifting because their brain is just smaller. No exposure to audit experience.

Your accountant will always be missing. especially before the year end audit takes place. Underpaid, no growth opportunities, high stress, high workload. and you as the FM will have difficulty finding a replacement unless you join an MNC with a good reputation that people want to join. You will be living on borrowed time, meaning you performance as an FM/accountant will be based on how smooth the audit proceeds. You can have your work life balance from Mar to Dec, but every Jan to Feb when audit starts, you will realize that your work life balance is based on a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

There is no future in this industry. Malaysians have screwed u all over by the low barrier of entry and our partners greed for high returns, that is why most of them are panicking now that our gov raise EP requirements. Do u auditors think your salary should be decided by the mere whimp of the government?

Dont believe the cool aid of what high growth BS people say about big 4. As long as you are trading time for money, your salary per hour is low. the long hours/ no work life balance/ high stress. totally not worth it. Just look at your managers, they are stuck. ask them why they have yet to leave, they are stuck.

What 1 month bonus? 1.5 month bonus? for great performance? how many jobs do u have to close for that 1.5 month high performance bonus? Does the math add up? u would earn much more by doing grab food on weekends and screw your jobs. thats assuming are able to close your jobs on time or just meet bare minimum promotion requirements

Let’s cut through the noise here. The problem isn’t the industry, the workload, or the competition. It’s you. If you are feeling stuck, it is because you have allowed yourself to be. No one owes you a living. No one’s responsible for your progress but you. If you are not where you want to be, it’s because you haven’t earned it.

You have been sitting around blaming everything under the sun for your situation, but the truth is, you have done this to yourself. Successful people face the same challenges like hell, probably worse but they don’t waste time complaining. They adapt, they improve, and they keep moving forward. If you are still in the same place, it’s because you have coasted, expecting something to magically change. It hasn’t, and it won’t. And that’s why you are stuck.

If your skills have fallen behind, that’s your fault. If you are feeling worthless, maybe it’s because you haven’t put in enough to be worth more. No one owes you respect or progression. You have to earn it. And clearly, you haven’t. That’s why you are stuck, not because of anyone else but yourself.

Whining about the system, your colleagues, or whatever else you want to blame won’t change the fact that you didn’t step up. Everyone deals with the same ****. You either take responsibility for your own growth, or you stay exactly where you are blaming everything else but yourself. Some handle it and rise above, while others like you just spiral deeper into frustration. You have let yourself become the latter. Simple as that.

No one owes you anything. If you want more out of your life and career, then you have to take it. No one’s going to feel sorry for you, and no one’s going to fix it for you. Either you take ownership and stop feeling sorry for yourself, or you keep spiralling down into irrelevance.

Your choice, but don’t expect anyone to care if you choose the wrong path.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Let’s cut through the noise here. The problem isn’t the industry, the workload, or the competition. It’s you. If you are feeling stuck, it is because you have allowed yourself to be. No one owes you a living. No one’s responsible for your progress but you. If you are not where you want to be, it’s because you haven’t earned it.

You have been sitting around blaming everything under the sun for your situation, but the truth is, you have done this to yourself. Successful people face the same challenges like hell, probably worse but they don’t waste time complaining. They adapt, they improve, and they keep moving forward. If you are still in the same place, it’s because you have coasted, expecting something to magically change. It hasn’t, and it won’t. And that’s why you are stuck.

If your skills have fallen behind, that’s your fault. If you are feeling worthless, maybe it’s because you haven’t put in enough to be worth more. No one owes you respect or progression. You have to earn it. And clearly, you haven’t. That’s why you are stuck, not because of anyone else but yourself.

Whining about the system, your colleagues, or whatever else you want to blame won’t change the fact that you didn’t step up. Everyone deals with the same ****. You either take responsibility for your own growth, or you stay exactly where you are blaming everything else but yourself. Some handle it and rise above, while others like you just spiral deeper into frustration. You have let yourself become the latter. Simple as that.

No one owes you anything. If you want more out of your life and career, then you have to take it. No one’s going to feel sorry for you, and no one’s going to fix it for you. Either you take ownership and stop feeling sorry for yourself, or you keep spiralling down into irrelevance.

Your choice, but don’t expect anyone to care if you choose the wrong path.

yeahhhh

I remember in MMORPG we usually take quests to level up to pk other players

Maybe the bro above should go for Phd in accounting or MBA

Originally Posted by EDMWer

Thats why i encourage auditors in SG to go big 4 nordic countries

now with DEI hiring policy and workplace inclusivity, maybe peak hour 4pm can go home already and still get 2 months leave per year to stare at northern lights until vomit

Having all the expat pics in IG and facebook is already a big win among peers

Can come back with a nice accent somemore to have a different personal branding

Bonus if you marry one of them and get to live there permanently, your future kids will be
thankful for leaving this competitive pressure cooker

This is the dumbest comments i've seen so far.
1. Nordic countries taxes are one of the highest in the world. In denmark for e.g. the tax rate us 60% of your income. And since you are a foreigner there is very little to none tax rebates which means you pay full.
2. Cost of living in nordic countries are high. If you think food in Singapore is expensive, wait till you see nordic countries food prices. They don't have hawker centers or the concept. They have street food but even that cost double our hawker centers. Most people just cook and brownbag to the office
3. Don't be fooled by the "you can go home at 4pm". Nordic people value getting work done instead of asking you what time you go home. In other words, if there are audit to complete, you will still be expected to pull all nighters to "get it done".
4. As a salaried foreigner you do not get to enjoy most of the benefits as a local. In fact refugees from arab and africa get more benefits than salaried foreigners
5. It is now very unsafe in nordic countries due to the mass influx of refugees and assylum seekers. I'm sure you are aware of the stabbing in the news. Walking alone at night is a no-no.
6. The culture, the food and customs are so different. While its great going there for a few months to a year, any longer and you will feel isolated. Nordic people are culturally very tribal. You will not fit in.

lol some of you are really negative about the whole thing.

I’ve already long accepted that it’s normal, and that this is punishment I am going through for not studying harder when I was younger.

POA was always seen as the “lesser” option to additional mathematics in secondary school, so right from the start I never saw this was a prestigious option.

It was interesting that accounting was briefly a good option, but I’m fine with it being a less popular option which was what I expected originally.