SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Dont be a Joke please, if you say degree and working hard last time is not important, that's probably cos you were one of those. Good laugh for the morning.

He's not entirely wrong.

The degree is definitely important but mostly for the first job. It is also important as a salary benchmark since SG employers like to ask for past salary but that can change with a few promotions.

After the first job (at least a year or 2), it's really all about work experience. Nobody is gonna ask you what subjects you took in school or what honours you got after you got some relevant work experience. What they will ask you is just whether you have a degree and what projects you did in your past job to try, what systems you know how to use, whether you were promoted and how often in your past job, and try to gauge how relevant your past work experience is or how skilled you really are.

Afterall, school and work are really 2 different ball games even though HR will put more emphasis on the degree for selection when the candidates have no past work experience (i.e fresh grads or someone with little to none relevant past work experience).

In school, you are taught the method to get the answers and in exams, you are given questions that you then use those tried and proven methods you learnt to solve the problems. In fact, with sample past year exam papers that you see students practising with, the "way" to identify the problems and the suggested tried and proven methods are often already given so you have ample time to prepare beforehand.

In work, you may not even be taught a method (depends on your superior) or a method will already be given to you as company SOP (depends on your company - MNCs and ops role will have more red tape).

Oftentimes, problems are not given to you directly. You will have to identify the problem yourself and then come up with the method yourself if it is not already in company SOP. Even then, sometimes problems will be stacked on top of problems so you cannot get the perfect solution but will have to make do and adapt.

Solving problems with methods already in company SOP/given by others or solving problems that your boss give you is just gonna give you an okay career though most companies usually will still give you a promotion after a few years just to keep you staying even if you are just doing the expected. Not being able to solve problems even if you tried and tried can result in a job loss if it cost the company losses or if too frequent (depends on how forgiving your superior is). There are no method marks in work, only done or not done.

If you want the promotion then you need to identify problems in current processes where possible and/or take the risk to come up with new methods that does not completely violate company SOP or at least not illegal. If your method fail and cost company loss, your superior and you will likely have to answer for it (though some superiors may just throw you under the bus and pretend that they were not aware you were doing it that way). Anyway, this is often called "taking the initiative". This is also what some are less inclined to do because of "act blur live longer" and "can siam arrow then siam".

So, working hard in school and working hard at work is not really the same. The former requires practising the tried and proven path until you can do it easily while the latter often requires you to create a new path with risks attached if you want to be extraordinary.

Went to private degree. SIM UOL Accounting and finance. Landed a job as auditor in big 4 and got same pay as those local U grads. Them being salty and competitive as usual, they were so jealous that of me. They studied hard since PSLE to get into good Sec schools and did well for O levels to get into good JC and did well for A levels to get into local U accountancy and did well for internship to get into big 4. Its kinda sad since i only studied 3 years in private U (i didnt really study hard too)

Sorry for the lack of commas, as u can see my english is not as good as local u kids. BUT i draw the same pay


Hahaha salty kids

Study SIM UOL - go to big 4 (worst case scenario go to mid tier and jump - u may drop a rank but its only 1 year worth of effort provided u actually work hard haha)

Vs

Study hard all ur life and go to big 4

Only salty local u kids cant tell which is the easier route

Regards,
EQ > IQ

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Study SIM UOL - go to big 4 (worst case scenario go to mid tier and jump - u may drop a rank but its only 1 year worth of effort provided u actually work hard haha)

Vs

Study hard all ur life and go to big 4

Only salty local u kids cant tell which is the easier route

Regards,
EQ > IQ

It's like walking into a house through the main door vs climbing in through the window.

LOL

I'm confused, people actually bragging about a job with 2.8 starting salary? LOL

When I was in uni, I give tuition here and there with my A level cert I'm alr earning close to 1k a month. That's part time work of about 4-6 hours a week. You guys are really jokes LOL

getting into big 4 is easy, able to sustain urself to make it to partner or becoming a CFO outside should be the end goal. probably worth looking at the background of the partners and CFOs

Here comes the salty local u kids that have nothing on me.

Im talking about fresh grad finding jobs and there u go whining about 2.8k, u must have been a local u kid that was rejected by big 4 before thats why u dont know about our current pay grade. Did ur position get stolen by private u kids? Your tuition story is totally irrelevant when it has no growth potential. Dont compare apple to pears, u lose immediately in this convo

Well if u inspire to be in the audit field, big 4 is the way to go. U reach 4.2k after 2 years. Good increment. Use the branding and leave for better roles.

Partners are just sales persons with connections to bring in more revenue, nothing special

don't understand why you guys are bragging about getting into big 4. Enjoy accounting as a career in a sunset industry is all I can say .

Ya i dont understand why local u kids still want to enter big 4 nowadays. End up have to compete with private uni grads. Most of them still lose to us in terms of EQ. They end up not promoting because they anger the wrong people. Sad to have IQ only

I don't know how many people are actually who they say they are here but just for all the undergrads that are reading the thread.

Don't let your degree define you. There are no shameful degrees.

All this "local uni" vs "private uni" rivalry is nonsensical once you step out into the working world.

I am sorry to say but the real competition is "local labour" vs "foreign talents". Your competition is people who do not need to attend annual reservists (2 weeks away while still drawing pay), willing to take a much much lower pay because they can use the favourable exchange rate to send money home, likely live alone in Singapore and may not even need to give CPF 20%, and most likely have more work experience (and overseas work experience) than you since no inexperienced hire is gonna be able to get a work pass for the jobs you want.

If you join an MNC, you will see lots of people with uni degrees you may not have heard of. In fact, your boss may not even be local. Of course, I dare not say this is the case for every industry but unless your employer has a hard on for specific uni degrees, there's no such thing as hire "local uni" only or hire "private uni" only. It's just whichever candidate does best during the interview and costs the least for the "value" the interviewer assume the candidate provides (based on the resume and interview).

Basically, if you get the interview, whatever was on the resume (which includes your degree) is considered ok already. Time to wow your interviewer with other stuff like your attitude towards work, your willingness to learn, you past work/internship experience, examples of how you took initiative to identify problems and solve it, general knowledge of the industry or role, etc.

Of course, no doubt there is stigma with private uni degrees but once you get your foot in, all these don't really matter anymore. Also, it really only matters on the first job because you got no past work experience to talk about.

If you are good at your job, nobody is gonna care about your GPA or what subjects you took during uni because truth is for a lot of jobs, what you learnt in school is just info that is good to know (i.e. it helps to know but you can just google it on the spot or you won't need to know it in-depth). For eg. the formula for IRR, really long and let's just say now if I want it, I just pull up Excel and use the IRR formula. All your time learning how to use that primitive calculator that UOL forces you to use? You will probably be using macros on excel, your handphone calculator or some other tool your company has.

Even by the off-chance that what you learnt in school is needed, the method may already be outdated by the time you are working simply because the industries might move faster than your syllabus.

In addition, if you wanna promote at work, doing things the standard/ordinary way without taking initiative to identify new problems and/or come up with more efficient methods (or if your boss doesn't know because you don't know how to subtly take credit where it is due) will get you no where. "Act blur, live longer" and "Can siam arrow then siam" is not gonna get you anywhere.

There is no ten-year series or mock exam papers or even questions for you to answer. If your boss has to give you the problem then you solve it, it just means you have no initiative. Ideally, you should identify problems of inefficiency where possible and come up with methods to address it if you want to stand out. Of course, you can also just tow the line and do what your boss gives you to stay employed but this is what your attitude towards work means.

If you have connections, you might not even need much effort to get in because the saying of "It's who you know, not what you know" is true. I have a few friends (local and private uni) that got into big companies that way. They made connections during their internships and part-time jobs during uni and then, when they graduated, their ex-supervisors got them in.

Also, don't be too picky. You may not get the first choice job you want but that does not mean you can't work towards it. A contract job may lead to a perm role or a role in a department that is not your first choice role-wise can turn into another role in the same department which you may want. That said, I don't mean to undersell yourself either. Remember that SG employers like to use past salary as gauge so don't sell yourself short but just don't fixate on the notion that you must die die get the job you want right off the bat.

I have a friend that fell into this exact "trap". Second upper from a local uni but end up earning really little because he spent so much time waiting and waiting for the right job because he did not want to take anything less than ideal and for some reason, thought that the degree guarantees him his choice of job. Finally, when he is desperate for a job after turning down a lot of the opportunities that came his way, he just went with whatever and he now has to live with it.

Anyway, if you are studying, focus on your studies and work hard for your grades. Make connections if you can (if you can't, don't worry). It will make finding that first job easier. Also, don't sleep on part-time jobs or internships even if most of the time, interns just do low risk simple tasks because any work experience is still work experience. Learn whatever you can. How people interact at work, how people solve problems at work, what is appropriate, what tools you should learn to use, etc even if you are mostly just doing brainless tasks. Basically, regardless of what job/tasks you do, never turn the brain off. Always look for better ways to do the thing (within limits - nothing illegal, nothing that will get you fired) even if it is seemingly brainless. Your boss might just notice your attitude and give you opportunities to do more (you will need to ask for more things to do that is out of the scope too - the more confidence your boss has with you, the more the tasks you will get and the more your job scope can expand)

If you are already finishing uni and you know you might not have a great degree/grade, don't let it define you. Go and get some work experience ASAP. Do not wait until you get your results slip then start working.

Before you receive the result slip, you can in all honesty say you don't know your results yet and prove yourself at work if the employer is willing to give you a shot. If you are good, even if your results turned out not ideal, employers will not just throw you out because a piece of paper says you are no good IF you proved that you are good at the job while you were there. The logic is simple - training, working with and knowing the person's work attitude for months only to throw him/her out because the degree honours is not ideal is just stupid unless the person hasn't really performed well at work (in this case. the degree results kinda matches the attitude).