What kind of industry are we talking about here? Consumer market research and the likes of Nielsen, or finance?

Looks like most here doing much better than me, I only got a 2 year contract for $3130 with a high tech manufacturing firm. No variable bonus, only 2 mths completion bonus every year and $180 transport allowance.

That sucks.. How long have you been with the company? Try asking for pay raise after 3rd month..

I don't think can, it is specifically stated in my contract that salary will only be adjusted to $3350 after 1 year anniversary subject to satisfactory performance.

Got a dilemma here - 2 offers came in same time and need to reply by end of this week.

One is from a GLC property developer, basic 3.3k but HR claims bonus on average 6 months for normal performer. The other one from insurance MNC basic 3.7k but apparently bonus only 3 months on average.

Which industry got better prospect? Money wise I prefer more basic, but the total package from the GLC is actually more if add up...

TIA!

Actually both offers have good bonus. Which offer are you more keen? Dont decide solely on the salary.

I am more keen to go with the GLC cauz I think can work better with the boss and work less need to talk/present (I am introvert). Some friends are telling me to go for the MNC cauz it is not easy for a SIM fresh grad to get into MNC and higher basic is more important so they say should make us of the opp to build up CV.

I am the poster that replied to you. Noted your point. Just want to share my point of view. I am introverted as well so I understand exactly how you feel. But I guess there will still be some sharing or presenting regardless of where you work. And I think they are useful skills regardless of your role (even outside work). Putting salary aside, I will probably take the MNC offer just based on what you have mentioned. Your friends are not wrong to say that it's not easy for SIM fresh grad to get into MNC. For me the brand reputation of the company matters as well. So it does make a difference. So if it's a top MNC in the industry, I will take it over the GLC. I graduated from SIM 4 years ago and was fortunate to join a MNC after close to 3 years of experience. The learning experience and exposure are very different. I think it will be a good start for you and subsequently value add to your credentials as well. However, end of the day it's your decision, I am solely sharing my take on this.

Agree with above poster. 3.7k is quite good for a pte uni fresh grad and mncs offer better exposure & more progressive culture. Sg is a brand concious place, a branded mnc resume can easily get into a glc as you will be like a 'elite' to them whereas it is very hard for glc to move mnc the other way. When young its good to keep options open.

Some great points made above regarding opportunities and salary expectations. People on the forum can have their own opinions on how valuable the SIM-UOL degree is - ultimately, it is the market that decides. Forcing your opinions and putting others down in this forum isn't going to change the reality you will face when looking for a job.

Better to be humble and take advice of SIM alumni who have paved the way and show that it is possible to make it with a lot of hard work (and some luck).

Does anyone know what SIM-UOL grads end up doing after graduation? I'm in my final year of SIM and would like to get into consulting. Would be great if you can let me know my chances of getting a first round interview. Any suggestions of target companies will also be appreciated.

Thanks.

Chances are quite low for MBB consulting, best is to try the 2nd tier firms which still have a good chance. Starting pay is not as good as MBB, but still quite decent ~4k if you are good/lucky enough to get in.

Question
 

Hi,

Would like to ask opinions on the following:

relevant/interesting job with steep learning curve in an unknown small firm

vs

a back-end role job in a bank/MNC that provides branding to resume but no relevant exposure

assuming pay and other benefits are roughly the same

always go for brand. nobody cares about your 'steep learning' if ppl dun even know what co it is.

terrible advice. Go for opportunity to learn when young. Back end processing adds no value to you. It is as mundane a work as can be. There is no where else you can move from there

Definitely agree. Chasing brand name for the sake of it is a poor strategy. The skills you pick up, you carry with you when you change companies. 5-10 years on, the difference between people with skills and the ones without gets pretty significant. The pay differential, more often than not, will also reflect that.

Fired a SIM UOL girl yesterday. She was playing bigo while at work.

What bs. The reality is that someone straight out of SIM UOL has no chance at any proper shop. Maybe only at the fly by night two man local boutiques as a grunt.

In theory yes, but in real life you can have all the skills in the world from Tan Ah Khow Pte Ltd and your CV will still be thrashed by HR before you even get a chance to demonstrate. It is common to see experienced mid careers with branded MNCs downgrade to take on bigger jobs in small co., but very rare to see the other way round.

There is a good reason why most with good grades go for branded companies, only those who couldn't get in sour grapes keep harping about how a small unknown shop gives them 'holistic' (nice word for bao ga liao) experience.

I can't help but tend to agree with this statement. Exposure in branded MNCs is different. If a branded MNC invite you for a job interview, will you turn it down? If you got the offer, will you turn it down, knowing that it is hard to get the offer in the first place. I have the privilege to work with a global MNC. People somehow will see the brand name and the rest doesn't really matter.

Good example will be joining big4. I agree that as a small fry in a big4 you don't learn as many skills compare to joining a small local audit firm, but I know of a few manager level colleagues who went on to become partner in local firms or join big MNC at senior level.

OTOH I have never seen a small audit firm manager come to big4 as a partner. That's why many of us are willing to spend the first few years underpaid & overwork in order to broaden our options in the future.

My advice to the question on top is if you can get into mnc get into mnc, if cannot don't be discourage as there is career advancement in the SME space also.

The danger is the market has a stigma against job seekers with only sme experience. Few years esp right after school can be overlook, but once reach 5 years & beyond, will be more or less condem to jump between sme which have a much lower pay & glass ceiling. Even the bigger GLC and ministry rank sme exp low in the priority.

Nonsense. I know a lot of top level directors and vp in us/eu multinationals who came from sme background.

Are these local SMEs you are referring to? What's classified as a SME overseas may be considered to be a big company by local standards.

Local sme background. In the job market what counts is ability and skills, as long as you have them global mnc are very happy to offer big package for you to join as senior leaders. Many of the directors and svp in the high tech industry are talented professionals caming from small sg/my firms.

Only idiot grads with no exp keep fantasizing about working in prestige companies thinking this is the best way to move up.

Hicks peset
 

I am another poster. Interesting. I have been working for 4 years plus. Have never wanted to work in SME. I was from MNCs all along.

To be really honest,

during networking event that i attended, based on several articles i read online, career coaches i consulted, its always better to choose a job that has high demands where it tests you on knowledge, creativity and exhibit decision making skills. These jobs usually come with steep learning curve. (aka front office roles where you work with stakeholders and initiate businesses, perform research/due diligence and involving non-repetitive activities)

Putting things into perspective. If i were to go for a MNC but i do operations, compliance and mechanistic roles where everything is repetitive and dependent on other teams to keep the ball moving, it can be extremely difficult to jump to the better roles who many desire. You hardly get to work with people elsewhere and able to leave office. Day in day out you are essentially doing the same thing, stuck in office and it does not broaden your knowledge as well.

But if i were to kick start my career with getting into a small firm but clocking relevant experience (keyword relevant), a job switch could be made a lot easier as compared to the former option. In addition, these jobs allow huge exposure when you work with stakeholders and at times they themselves come from MNC who can offer a referral if you decide to career switch.

Ultimately, once you work a few years, you shouldnt be applying jobs via job portal or sending resumes online. Everything is done through word of mouth if you network actively and get yourself introduced to the right people during your time in the small firm.

It's about what choice you have. If given choice of joining front office of DBS vs back office of JPM, of course is go for DBS. If the choice is about back office of JPM or front office of a local sme like Singapura Finance, then I think you must be quite mad to think the network and learning curve of a front office role in Singapura Finance has better prospects than a JPM support job.

I work in Singapura Finance, and I am offended by what you just said.

Its just a remark, don't take it too seriously.

Try to get out of there asap, no point emo & do nothing.

I dont know about you. But operations/support/mechanistic roles are just not for me.

And i see little career progression under this path. Yes other big MNC recognize the brand but im limited to similar operation roles elsewhere. Barclays ops, DBS ops, UBS ops.

Internal transfer to front office doesnt work. Not even CFA can save you. Masters perhaps yes (given hands on exposure) but that knocks another 2 years off and plentiful of money.

Small firms may recognize the brand. but during interview if you cant do financial modelling or display other hands on skills how to get hired? And honestly even if JPM tag, during networking when people hear you are compliance/support they would categorize you as one who are the 'compliance support guy'. You just wont get to do fanciful stuffs.

Similarly why people opt to work for boutique unknown investment banks, unknown family office funds, unknown private equity firms instead of back end support roles of your MNC brands. Unknown yes, but people from those MNC will at times beg you for business and engage in their services.

ultimately if i choose the back office support role path i'd be stuck in same function and my compensation will never be as high as front office people.

Anyway back office roles are starting to get outsource to India and other countries already. That just show how dispensable these jobs are and how much branding it actually provides. Not trying to look down on these jobs, they are absolutely crucial to the system. But its quite depressing how many people think they are hotshot just cause they work in renowned firms when day in day out they just do repetitive stuffs. And then with such a flat working life 1) they dread Mondays, 2) looking forward to knock offs in evenings and 3) their usual quarterly overseas holidays.

I know you are sharing your view. You are just one of the majority.While some parts of what you said is true, but you dont need to do fanciful stuff in order to be successful. All the people around me want to be in front office etc. You are getting higher pay at the expense of other things. I have friends in front office working 12 to 14 hrs a day which is not sustainable in the long run.
Your life doesnt revolve just about money and front office. This is just my opinion.

How is all this chit chat about investment banking/fund management FO relevant to the thread?

I don't see any SIM-UOL grad studying that or getting any of these jobs. If you all want to show off your knowledge or argue over some theory about skills and brands, please have the courtesy to start your own thread.

Obviously never work in finance industry before, there are quite a few private grads in the front office and quant side.

Yeah, i know of a lot of private grads working as bank tellers. But i am sure front office and quant means different things to different people.

No need to look down and insult others when you cannot get offers.

another angry local u grad who got pawned by a sim grad hahaha

hahahahahahhahahah quant hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I am not sure you know what you are talking about

Just because someone provides an opinion about SIM grads that is negative, why does it mean that he got pawned by a SIM? Doesnt make any sense.

Does anyone have any linkedin evidence of a SIM fresh grad taking up FO role in Finance? I keep reading about claims here and HWZ, but nobody able to show even ONE online profile of such a case.