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  #1921 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 05:30 PM
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Hi everyone from SIM,

i was reading the forum and just want to give a few tips as i do know how hard it is to get a finance job from SIM. I took around 4mths to find a desired finance job. it's about my 3rd yr working.

Currently, Im in a front office, dealing role in a bank. i deal with forex, swaps, FI, repos and also does market making etc... It is the department that does the fixed rate, floating rate swaps kinda thing we study.

my path basically goes like this..
trading with my own money, start studying in SIM, holiday spent proprietary trading at a legitimate firm (not 6cap), Holiday spent in private bank, grad, dealing in fund, dealing in Bank.

tips.

1) Try to work part time in bank. I didnt know it was important until people actually called me up for interview because i have work as scanner-boy in a private banking environment

2) try to pick up skills. Bloomberg, reuters, excel functions, algos, programming does help

3) prepare for interview & apply for the right job. local banks and americans are super paper chase.. i think it is fine to skip applying to them if u want front office jobs.

Interview is everything. When employers tested me on options, excel and every finance qns, they are usually beyond textbk. E.g. I was asked what are the 3 ways to form a butterfly with options.. calculate swap pts, substantiate view of usd/sgd in 1yr, number of rate hikes, taylor rule....

4) i do not wish to encourage paper chasing but sadly CFA and Masters do help. All my colleagues have master degree.

And in regards to trading, let me clarify a few pts:

i) proprietary trading firm do exist.. but i advise u to trade 2yrs, 364days/yr b4 u decide to sign up.

ii) no prop trading in banks due to volcker & dodd frank. we unwind position fast.

iii) very little chance to run your own book in banks. it is a business model.

iv) buy-side punters are the most fun with highest variable bonus, but least job security and easily exploited.

FO can get about 5to6k payroll in about 3 to 5 years.
hi can u clarify on these 2 points? thanks

1. what's wrong with six capital?
2. do u advise starting off in prop trading or s&t at a bank?
3. what's yr opinion on paper trading/hedging in commod trading houses?

anyone else feel free to comment too

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  #1922 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 05:31 PM
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hi can u clarify on these 2 points? thanks

1. what's wrong with six capital?
2. do u advise starting off in prop trading or s&t at a bank?
3. what's yr opinion on paper trading/hedging in commod trading houses?

anyone else feel free to comment too
correction: 3 points

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  #1923 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 08:21 PM
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1. 4yrs ago when i learnt abt 6cap, they r more of a model of educatiom than trading. more income from prop trade or education? and patr.. teng was a chief dealer??
they eventually got a small prop desk.. i heard.

for prop trading, nv pay to learn.. thr may be cost but should be deducted from profit. omega trading at uob is gd and legit.

2. prop trading is stressful cuz what u hunt is what u eat. thr r days you hope to reach ur target of 8k sgd profit. but market start to reverse and u end up with 3k left. there r days u live on last mth paychk.. u practically live breathe mkt with no social life and skillset is not transferrable.

i have a house cmg up with reno and things to pay.. so i join a bank for stable job. being a market maker/dealer/trader is bank makes ur skills much more transferrable, easier to find job and stable invome. im working on a business model whr i hedge my risk away immediately, earning a tiny spread out of big amount. easy to live a life.

3. physucal trader call us screen trader.. physical trading gotta do with lots of logistic, chking quality of comm and specifixation. lots of OT on weekends, snatching rivals' container..a logistic game and more client sales..

as u can see between prop trader, bank trader and physical trader. depends on what u like more.. i will love to be prop trader if i nv had a gf/wife

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  #1924 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2016, 02:13 PM
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1. 4yrs ago when i learnt abt 6cap, they r more of a model of educatiom than trading. more income from prop trade or education? and patr.. teng was a chief dealer??
they eventually got a small prop desk.. i heard.

for prop trading, nv pay to learn.. thr may be cost but should be deducted from profit. omega trading at uob is gd and legit.

2. prop trading is stressful cuz what u hunt is what u eat. thr r days you hope to reach ur target of 8k sgd profit. but market start to reverse and u end up with 3k left. there r days u live on last mth paychk.. u practically live breathe mkt with no social life and skillset is not transferrable.

i have a house cmg up with reno and things to pay.. so i join a bank for stable job. being a market maker/dealer/trader is bank makes ur skills much more transferrable, easier to find job and stable invome. im working on a business model whr i hedge my risk away immediately, earning a tiny spread out of big amount. easy to live a life.

3. physucal trader call us screen trader.. physical trading gotta do with lots of logistic, chking quality of comm and specifixation. lots of OT on weekends, snatching rivals' container..a logistic game and more client sales..

as u can see between prop trader, bank trader and physical trader. depends on what u like more.. i will love to be prop trader if i nv had a gf/wife
appreciate the insight!
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  #1925 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2016, 09:39 PM
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any graduating batch from 2016? i have been sending out many resumes but no luck in securing job. some of my jc friends who are in ntu/nus applied same company as me and were called into first round interview the very next day. life is tough as sim student
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  #1926 (permalink)  
Old 23-06-2016, 02:50 AM
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Default Harsh truth and tips

just wanna provide some tips and advice for SIM-UOL juniors. I always believe in letting people know harsh truths of life and it will in return provide the best learning lesson. Just look at all the good graduation speech delivered by successful people to their ivy league counterparts, absolutely no sugar coating at all. Its filled with harsh words and criticim in order to better prepare them.

I've always felt it is the school's flaw to not bring awareness to students about the tough competition for jobs, especially with participation of local u counterparts. Instead they went on to encourage and celebrate mediocrity and provide this fake bubble to students. I was lucky enough to be aware of the harsh truths of it.

I will not share much of my details sadly, i do not need to convince anyone but if just one person is willing to open up his or her mind to what i said, Ive done my part. The tips I provided are the things Ive done in my uni life (yes all4 points).

Here are some tips I can provide:

1) Job hunting begins first day you begin your degree. Tons of people only start this process at their final year which is too late.

You need the participation in sch activities and relevant CCAs(to demonstrate teamwork), competitions (to demonstrate you can work under pressure). So it is advisable to join relevant CCAs in your year 1 and 2. 1st year for member another year for exco. Within this 2 years u must strive to win something from competitions. Because competitions are usually at national level with local uni counterparts and professional judges, it is your rare shot to showcase you have a competitive edge at something. Key note here is Relevant CCAs

2) During your summer holidays and final year you have to do some form of part time job and internship. Yes final year you dont need to stay in your CCA. Convert to part time and work and study (to demonstrate hard work ethic) In UOL, we dont have the luxury like the local u students with much more holidays and breaks. They can afford to go on exchanges and holidays, we cant. If you are feeling gutted by this then dont regret or complain if you cant find a job. You do not need months of travelling to recharge yourself. Please wake up. The fact that you guys bother to come to this forum and read means you wanna make a change so just do it. Sacrifice the holidays, dont even bother with the exchange programe the school is providing. Get a job and gain some real world experience. Which leads me to my next point...

3) Whatever jobs you are in (even contract jobs in banks) you work your ass off and network with people. You dont have to be the most popular guy in the office. Just work hard and perform well for employers, they will remember you and even write a letter of recommendation for you. The more places you work, the more people you know from different organizations. Who gives a **** even if its admin/non relevant jobs. You clock work experiences like this during your life as a student so that when you graduate, you are a level higher. (of course dont be stupid to do all admin/basic jobs in your 3 years in UOL)

4) Hard skills. Thanks to UOL curriculum, we are absolutely in a disadvantageous position for this. For those who want a front office role in banking/finance I think it was mention in previous posts these are crucial. Financial modelling, CFA level 1, excel, bloomberg, understanding of financial instruments and jargons, FA and TA all these are to be understood and able to apply in the rather basic way. Likewise other jobs have their hardskills and it is your job to find out what they are and have an understanding for them. I think it is important to know which functions interest you and figure out what are the hard skills needed. Not going to spoon feed you guys but there are ways to have some basic form of understanding without actually securing internships/jobs.

Well at this point you may question if all these are actually doable, on top of that we still have to juggle with school. Thats the harsh truth I am trying to let you know. If the quality of degree isnt there , therefore we must do more to make up for it. While what i say doesnt necessary guarantee a job, but rather than sit and cry and waste time looking at every thread in this forum, why not try to make a change. If you are already in your year 2 and 3, just forget the CCAs and get a job, gain some real world experience and connections.

I remember my first year in school i consulted this career coach. She said to me " it is expected of UOL student to get FCH and gain working experience in yr 3 years, so dont come cry and bitch to her if i cannot get a job when i grad cause i failed to do any of it"

Lastly, I left out the part on writing a proper resume, brush up interview skills etc. Not going to spoonfeed you guys but you should know where to get those done.

Cant take what I mentioned above then dont go into finance.
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  #1927 (permalink)  
Old 23-06-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
just wanna provide some tips and advice for SIM-UOL juniors. I always believe in letting people know harsh truths of life and it will in return provide the best learning lesson. Just look at all the good graduation speech delivered by successful people to their ivy league counterparts, absolutely no sugar coating at all. Its filled with harsh words and criticim in order to better prepare them.

I've always felt it is the school's flaw to not bring awareness to students about the tough competition for jobs, especially with participation of local u counterparts. Instead they went on to encourage and celebrate mediocrity and provide this fake bubble to students. I was lucky enough to be aware of the harsh truths of it.

I will not share much of my details sadly, i do not need to convince anyone but if just one person is willing to open up his or her mind to what i said, Ive done my part. The tips I provided are the things Ive done in my uni life (yes all4 points).

Here are some tips I can provide:

1) Job hunting begins first day you begin your degree. Tons of people only start this process at their final year which is too late.

You need the participation in sch activities and relevant CCAs(to demonstrate teamwork), competitions (to demonstrate you can work under pressure). So it is advisable to join relevant CCAs in your year 1 and 2. 1st year for member another year for exco. Within this 2 years u must strive to win something from competitions. Because competitions are usually at national level with local uni counterparts and professional judges, it is your rare shot to showcase you have a competitive edge at something. Key note here is Relevant CCAs

2) During your summer holidays and final year you have to do some form of part time job and internship. Yes final year you dont need to stay in your CCA. Convert to part time and work and study (to demonstrate hard work ethic) In UOL, we dont have the luxury like the local u students with much more holidays and breaks. They can afford to go on exchanges and holidays, we cant. If you are feeling gutted by this then dont regret or complain if you cant find a job. You do not need months of travelling to recharge yourself. Please wake up. The fact that you guys bother to come to this forum and read means you wanna make a change so just do it. Sacrifice the holidays, dont even bother with the exchange programe the school is providing. Get a job and gain some real world experience. Which leads me to my next point...

3) Whatever jobs you are in (even contract jobs in banks) you work your ass off and network with people. You dont have to be the most popular guy in the office. Just work hard and perform well for employers, they will remember you and even write a letter of recommendation for you. The more places you work, the more people you know from different organizations. Who gives a **** even if its admin/non relevant jobs. You clock work experiences like this during your life as a student so that when you graduate, you are a level higher. (of course dont be stupid to do all admin/basic jobs in your 3 years in UOL)

4) Hard skills. Thanks to UOL curriculum, we are absolutely in a disadvantageous position for this. For those who want a front office role in banking/finance I think it was mention in previous posts these are crucial. Financial modelling, CFA level 1, excel, bloomberg, understanding of financial instruments and jargons, FA and TA all these are to be understood and able to apply in the rather basic way. Likewise other jobs have their hardskills and it is your job to find out what they are and have an understanding for them. I think it is important to know which functions interest you and figure out what are the hard skills needed. Not going to spoon feed you guys but there are ways to have some basic form of understanding without actually securing internships/jobs.

Well at this point you may question if all these are actually doable, on top of that we still have to juggle with school. Thats the harsh truth I am trying to let you know. If the quality of degree isnt there , therefore we must do more to make up for it. While what i say doesnt necessary guarantee a job, but rather than sit and cry and waste time looking at every thread in this forum, why not try to make a change. If you are already in your year 2 and 3, just forget the CCAs and get a job, gain some real world experience and connections.

I remember my first year in school i consulted this career coach. She said to me " it is expected of UOL student to get FCH and gain working experience in yr 3 years, so dont come cry and bitch to her if i cannot get a job when i grad cause i failed to do any of it"

Lastly, I left out the part on writing a proper resume, brush up interview skills etc. Not going to spoonfeed you guys but you should know where to get those done.

Cant take what I mentioned above then dont go into finance.
Good advice that is applicable to any university grad actually. It's just that for some reason this seems to lost to most private grads; further exacerbating the wide difference in marketability compared to local grads.
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  #1928 (permalink)  
Old 23-06-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
just wanna provide some tips and advice for SIM-UOL juniors. I always believe in letting people know harsh truths of life and it will in return provide the best learning lesson. Just look at all the good graduation speech delivered by successful people to their ivy league counterparts, absolutely no sugar coating at all. Its filled with harsh words and criticim in order to better prepare them.

I've always felt it is the school's flaw to not bring awareness to students about the tough competition for jobs, especially with participation of local u counterparts. Instead they went on to encourage and celebrate mediocrity and provide this fake bubble to students. I was lucky enough to be aware of the harsh truths of it.

I will not share much of my details sadly, i do not need to convince anyone but if just one person is willing to open up his or her mind to what i said, Ive done my part. The tips I provided are the things Ive done in my uni life (yes all4 points).

Here are some tips I can provide:

1) Job hunting begins first day you begin your degree. Tons of people only start this process at their final year which is too late.

You need the participation in sch activities and relevant CCAs(to demonstrate teamwork), competitions (to demonstrate you can work under pressure). So it is advisable to join relevant CCAs in your year 1 and 2. 1st year for member another year for exco. Within this 2 years u must strive to win something from competitions. Because competitions are usually at national level with local uni counterparts and professional judges, it is your rare shot to showcase you have a competitive edge at something. Key note here is Relevant CCAs

2) During your summer holidays and final year you have to do some form of part time job and internship. Yes final year you dont need to stay in your CCA. Convert to part time and work and study (to demonstrate hard work ethic) In UOL, we dont have the luxury like the local u students with much more holidays and breaks. They can afford to go on exchanges and holidays, we cant. If you are feeling gutted by this then dont regret or complain if you cant find a job. You do not need months of travelling to recharge yourself. Please wake up. The fact that you guys bother to come to this forum and read means you wanna make a change so just do it. Sacrifice the holidays, dont even bother with the exchange programe the school is providing. Get a job and gain some real world experience. Which leads me to my next point...

3) Whatever jobs you are in (even contract jobs in banks) you work your ass off and network with people. You dont have to be the most popular guy in the office. Just work hard and perform well for employers, they will remember you and even write a letter of recommendation for you. The more places you work, the more people you know from different organizations. Who gives a **** even if its admin/non relevant jobs. You clock work experiences like this during your life as a student so that when you graduate, you are a level higher. (of course dont be stupid to do all admin/basic jobs in your 3 years in UOL)

4) Hard skills. Thanks to UOL curriculum, we are absolutely in a disadvantageous position for this. For those who want a front office role in banking/finance I think it was mention in previous posts these are crucial. Financial modelling, CFA level 1, excel, bloomberg, understanding of financial instruments and jargons, FA and TA all these are to be understood and able to apply in the rather basic way. Likewise other jobs have their hardskills and it is your job to find out what they are and have an understanding for them. I think it is important to know which functions interest you and figure out what are the hard skills needed. Not going to spoon feed you guys but there are ways to have some basic form of understanding without actually securing internships/jobs.

Well at this point you may question if all these are actually doable, on top of that we still have to juggle with school. Thats the harsh truth I am trying to let you know. If the quality of degree isnt there , therefore we must do more to make up for it. While what i say doesnt necessary guarantee a job, but rather than sit and cry and waste time looking at every thread in this forum, why not try to make a change. If you are already in your year 2 and 3, just forget the CCAs and get a job, gain some real world experience and connections.

I remember my first year in school i consulted this career coach. She said to me " it is expected of UOL student to get FCH and gain working experience in yr 3 years, so dont come cry and bitch to her if i cannot get a job when i grad cause i failed to do any of it"

Lastly, I left out the part on writing a proper resume, brush up interview skills etc. Not going to spoonfeed you guys but you should know where to get those done.

Cant take what I mentioned above then dont go into finance.
I got to agree with this. I was from UOL and did all the above. Sch term break will be doing jobs. Then CCA during school term. I started job hunting half a year before I graduated. Got a job 2 months before graduation. Happily just go pass my final exams as I know I dont need to strive for FCH etc.
I seek career advice from coach. During interviews I was able to share about what I have done in my past jobs and also CCA.
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  #1929 (permalink)  
Old 23-06-2016, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
just wanna provide some tips and advice for SIM-UOL juniors. I always believe in letting people know harsh truths of life and it will in return provide the best learning lesson. Just look at all the good graduation speech delivered by successful people to their ivy league counterparts, absolutely no sugar coating at all. Its filled with harsh words and criticim in order to better prepare them.

I've always felt it is the school's flaw to not bring awareness to students about the tough competition for jobs, especially with participation of local u counterparts. Instead they went on to encourage and celebrate mediocrity and provide this fake bubble to students. I was lucky enough to be aware of the harsh truths of it.

I will not share much of my details sadly, i do not need to convince anyone but if just one person is willing to open up his or her mind to what i said, Ive done my part. The tips I provided are the things Ive done in my uni life (yes all4 points).

Here are some tips I can provide:

1) Job hunting begins first day you begin your degree. Tons of people only start this process at their final year which is too late.

You need the participation in sch activities and relevant CCAs(to demonstrate teamwork), competitions (to demonstrate you can work under pressure). So it is advisable to join relevant CCAs in your year 1 and 2. 1st year for member another year for exco. Within this 2 years u must strive to win something from competitions. Because competitions are usually at national level with local uni counterparts and professional judges, it is your rare shot to showcase you have a competitive edge at something. Key note here is Relevant CCAs

2) During your summer holidays and final year you have to do some form of part time job and internship. Yes final year you dont need to stay in your CCA. Convert to part time and work and study (to demonstrate hard work ethic) In UOL, we dont have the luxury like the local u students with much more holidays and breaks. They can afford to go on exchanges and holidays, we cant. If you are feeling gutted by this then dont regret or complain if you cant find a job. You do not need months of travelling to recharge yourself. Please wake up. The fact that you guys bother to come to this forum and read means you wanna make a change so just do it. Sacrifice the holidays, dont even bother with the exchange programe the school is providing. Get a job and gain some real world experience. Which leads me to my next point...

3) Whatever jobs you are in (even contract jobs in banks) you work your ass off and network with people. You dont have to be the most popular guy in the office. Just work hard and perform well for employers, they will remember you and even write a letter of recommendation for you. The more places you work, the more people you know from different organizations. Who gives a **** even if its admin/non relevant jobs. You clock work experiences like this during your life as a student so that when you graduate, you are a level higher. (of course dont be stupid to do all admin/basic jobs in your 3 years in UOL)

4) Hard skills. Thanks to UOL curriculum, we are absolutely in a disadvantageous position for this. For those who want a front office role in banking/finance I think it was mention in previous posts these are crucial. Financial modelling, CFA level 1, excel, bloomberg, understanding of financial instruments and jargons, FA and TA all these are to be understood and able to apply in the rather basic way. Likewise other jobs have their hardskills and it is your job to find out what they are and have an understanding for them. I think it is important to know which functions interest you and figure out what are the hard skills needed. Not going to spoon feed you guys but there are ways to have some basic form of understanding without actually securing internships/jobs.

Well at this point you may question if all these are actually doable, on top of that we still have to juggle with school. Thats the harsh truth I am trying to let you know. If the quality of degree isnt there , therefore we must do more to make up for it. While what i say doesnt necessary guarantee a job, but rather than sit and cry and waste time looking at every thread in this forum, why not try to make a change. If you are already in your year 2 and 3, just forget the CCAs and get a job, gain some real world experience and connections.

I remember my first year in school i consulted this career coach. She said to me " it is expected of UOL student to get FCH and gain working experience in yr 3 years, so dont come cry and bitch to her if i cannot get a job when i grad cause i failed to do any of it"

Lastly, I left out the part on writing a proper resume, brush up interview skills etc. Not going to spoonfeed you guys but you should know where to get those done.

Cant take what I mentioned above then dont go into finance.
huh? what's the big deal? tons of sim students did everything u mentioned
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  #1930 (permalink)  
Old 24-06-2016, 09:47 AM
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1) Job hunting begins first day you begin your degree. Tons of people only start this process at their final year which is too late.
I agree with most of these guy's advice. But pertaining to the above, I just give my opinion which was beneficial to me.

Job hunting, and by that I mean actual job hunting of polishing up resume and sending it to employers, begins on your second last year. So if you're in 3 year program, start on your 2nd year, 4 year program, start on your 3rd year.

Sure, you can always start early. And you can always party, which please do not do. But I believe you should use your time in university before job hunting to focus on the academics. Strive to learn as much, if you're thinking of pursuing a technical role, and work towards a high GPA.

Job hunting is like admin - formatting resume, polishing key words, writing over letter, networking, sending out resumes on the company website. You need to make yourself a finished and refined product for your employers. By focusing on the academics, you'll internalize the knowledge needed to perform on the interview and subsequently on the job. It is only through focusing on just the academics will you internalize the material.

I've learnt that I'm more comfortable talking about markets and trading when I have internalized the knowledge, not when I've nailed an interview and studied the night before. The latter wouldn't equip you with a good grounding of the last five economic crises which when discussed to the interviewer could get you the job. Studying would.

In short, you got 3 years in university. Just STUDY and keep up a GPA on your first year. People don't get quality internships in your first summer anyway. Then when the job hunting comes, you'll feel much more confident with the knowledge, and hopefully with the 4.0 GPA.
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