is 3rd class honors useful?

Originally Posted by aspenx

I believe it is still just as difficult.

What is your major? This will sound cliche but there are _always_ industries that really require us Singaporeans take up.

I took up a project engineer job at a construction firm after being approached by an agent after graduation. They were more than happy to hire me (a local graduate) instead of a Malaysian etc. Pay was crap for the first 2 months. After probation (which ended early for me), I negotiated and got what I wanted (at that time) and actually more due to OT pay, bonuses and other perks. It was tough but it was infinitely better than being jobless.

A large population of our generation are after instant gratification. If you have neither luck nor the grades on your side, I guess you can still bite the bullet and challenge yourself with a "less-desirable" job and who knows how it will turn out?

Yes and no with regards to taking up a "less-desirable" job and trying to negotiate a better offer subsequently on the basis of hard work + competence on the job.

Like what the author wrote, if you are dilligent and competent AND the employer is reasonable and is willing to pay better rates for what he perceived as a staff whom is able to contribute more to the company than what he pays to the staff, then YES.

On the other hand, imagine that your grades are not very good, you are poor or just embarrassed in negotiation for (e.g. a better deal); had you accepted a below-market rate job, more often than not, employers are going to use your last drawn pay as a basis to negotiate with you on your next pay check. It will be more difficult for you to get market rate salaries, not to mention above average salaries when you want to move on.

If you sometimes ride it out and wait a better offer to come along, it may be more suitable for a person whom dunno how to negotiate. Some companies are more scrupulous than others and you don't need to destroy your brain cells just to haggle with such companies over the salary because they are already offering you a decent salary to begin with.

It really depends on your character, negotiation ability and luck.

I am in the construction industry myself and I think it is a poorer cousin of the oil & gas industry simply because oil & gas pay overwhelms every other industry but is on par with finance. But the work carried out in the construction industry are by no means less tough (harsh physical environment, long working hours, lousier tempers (due to environment probably), low margins, hence you have to really think of how to be profitable, which no doubt add to the difficulty of the work.

I do not know exactly though I have some ideas of how my peers in this industry is doing but I have been able to draw a decent 110k annual salary (10 years experience) ( through sheer determination, perseverance, hard work and good response and above all, a burning desire to succeed in life) I did not do well academically in my tertiary days and though my pay is nothing to shout about, I consider it decent. There are much better paid employees and there are much more well-heeled businessmen but I would like to encourage those whom wanted to do well in life careerwise and financially to not be discouraged if you did not have a good headstart in your career but push on and soon the things you desire will come to you eventually but as with all things in life, sacrifices have to be made. Everybody have somewhat different priorities in life; I have seen much smarter people whom don't perform as well in their career but it is their choices because they would prefer to spend more time on other things other than their careers and it is not wrong. Just a matter of different opinions.

That's the way to go man. If u have got a 3rd class honours, u need to do 3 things (no pun intended). First, convince yourself that you are not dumb. Second, get defensive when people probe or question your credentials. You could defend your stand by saying "Oh, the hiring manager should be experienced enough to discern who the truly capable ones are, beyond As and Bs." Third, think of reasons, even frivolous ones, about why 3rd class honours are not inferior compared to 1st class honours. For instance, you could argue that 1st class graduates are muggers who don't have a life etc. If possible, try to belittle those with excellent grades too. Well done. You will do well in life.

Originally Posted by IT grad

I got 3rd class honours and am working in a bank as an IT analyst. At 24, i'm earning 45k p.a.

Whatever people say about 'back office' job, i don't care... Low pay? yea.. relatively low compared to elite front-office dudes, but so what? I'm doing what I can and I like to do. And frankly, i don't think 45k is low! it's way above the mean salary (not counting SMU's Cum Laude <2nd upper Honours and above equivalent> hahaha...)

I studied IT-related course in a local uni, so naturally IT in a bank is a good blend of IT + finance... lots of e-learning courses in intranet to find out...

Any experienced managers will be able to spot, in interviews, between 3rd class who're mediocre or 3rd class who can't be bothered to mug for exams. I'd say i'm the latter. Of course, getting 2nd or 1st gets the interviews first, but opportunities are always around. Just find the right one(s)



Cheers!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Third, think of reasons, even frivolous ones, about why 3rd class honours are not inferior compared to 1st class honours. For instance, you could argue that 1st class graduates are muggers who don't have a life etc. If possible, try to belittle those with excellent grades too.

I disagree with you.

Never shoot other people down to push yourself up.

There are many reasons to justify your third class honors. One way is
"I am not someone who is suitable for academic environment. Very often, when new concepts are taught, I like to think and understand it more, in the end wasting more time. I try not to memorise solutions and work out my own. It takes time, but I'm happy and I believe I learnt more. "
"I'm not a really studying kind of person. I prefer to go out and talk to people, experience new things. "

Use the chance to flip yourself up. People shoot you down, you acknowledge but also try to score points. Be sincere though.
Some people like to cook up stories like "I have to work and give tuitions as my family is poor." Then the interviewer see his address is in sixth avenue and out he go.

Dude, u are just not academically inclined. Please don't make it sound as if you had understood more or learned more stuff.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I disagree with you.

Never shoot other people down to push yourself up.

There are many reasons to justify your third class honors. One way is
"I am not someone who is suitable for academic environment. Very often, when new concepts are taught, I like to think and understand it more, in the end wasting more time. I try not to memorise solutions and work out my own. It takes time, but I'm happy and I believe I learnt more. "
"I'm not a really studying kind of person. I prefer to go out and talk to people, experience new things. "

Use the chance to flip yourself up. People shoot you down, you acknowledge but also try to score points. Be sincere though.
Some people like to cook up stories like "I have to work and give tuitions as my family is poor." Then the interviewer see his address is in sixth avenue and out he go.

No matter what degree you have, it is the attitude that counts.

1) Accept the fact you have did badly accademically. Accept jobs with lower pay but steep learning curve. During interview, just admit you are not working as hard as others but you will be a different person because you will not make the same mistake.

2) Learn hard and do not be afraid to do things that you are weak in. Pick up as much skills as possible in the shortest period of time from the first job. By this time, you should know what is your strength and weakness. Identify your mainstream of knowledge and enhance it further. Thereafter, broaden your scope which is related to your main strea.

3) From 2nd job onwards, there is less emphasis on academic results. Just need to demostrate how you overturn the deficit with sheer determination and hardwork.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No matter what degree you have, it is the attitude that counts.

1) Accept the fact you have did badly accademically. Accept jobs with lower pay but steep learning curve. During interview, just admit you are not working as hard as others but you will be a different person because you will not make the same mistake.

2) Learn hard and do not be afraid to do things that you are weak in. Pick up as much skills as possible in the shortest period of time from the first job. By this time, you should know what is your strength and weakness. Identify your mainstream of knowledge and enhance it further. Thereafter, broaden your scope which is related to your main strea.

3) From 2nd job onwards, there is less emphasis on academic results. Just need to demostrate how you overturn the deficit with sheer determination and hardwork.

Upturn the downturn!

You gotta beg like a dog to land your first job with those **** grades. But second job onwards it's more about your work experience and skills and less about your honours. Your uni grades will slowly fade away. I can't even remember whether my GPA was 4.67 or 4.76.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Upturn the downturn!

You gotta beg like a dog to land your first job with those **** grades. But second job onwards it's more about your work experience and skills and less about your honours. Your uni grades will slowly fade away. I can't even remember whether my GPA was 4.67 or 4.76.

What dog? You can choose to work in smaller companies with lower pay.

So how well have you been doing? How old are you? How come you sound so childish?

Generally speaking 3rd class honours is more or less kiss MNC/banking and public sector goodbye as your first job.

Having said that a 3rd class honours from local u will still be looked upon better or at least same as a FCH from private u. It should still be useful for job searching at the smaller GLC and SME space.

After that is see how good you are at work.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Generally speaking 3rd class honours is more or less kiss MNC/banking and public sector goodbye as your first job.

Having said that a 3rd class honours from local u will still be looked upon better or at least same as a FCH from private u. It should still be useful for job searching at the smaller GLC and SME space.

After that is see how good you are at work.

I graduated from local U engineering (4 years direct honours) without honours in 2009. Started my career in a sme at December 2009 with a starting of $2,300 monthly basic and roughly 1.5 months of annual bonus. And now I am drawing close to $8k monthly basic and roughly 4.0 months of annual bonus. Although it is not a lot as compared to those working in banking, it is a great improvement for a guy without honours and low starting pay.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I graduated from local U engineering (4 years direct honours) without honours in 2009. Started my career in a sme at December 2009 with a starting of $2,300 monthly basic and roughly 1.5 months of annual bonus. And now I am drawing close to $8k monthly basic and roughly 4.0 months of annual bonus. Although it is not a lot as compared to those working in banking, it is a great improvement for a guy without honours and low starting pay.

I also started off as local u engineering grad. Did a mid career switch after 10 years now making close to 15k doing business analytic for a us mnc.