Seems like PA situation is even worse than your current NEA job. I don't think PA bonus is as good as NEA also...

a constituency manager is very much what you would describe as an operations manager, in charge of the day-to-day running of the Community Centre.

To a certain extend, you are also the general manager of the branch, looking after all aspects, from revenue collection, scheduling of enrichment classes, managing tenants, public feedbacks, event management, human resource management (staff schedule, leave, mc, resignation, petty fights etc).

You do not have to do everything, however you are in charge of everything. Anyone who have taken a managerial role will agree that your job comfort level is dependent on two key factors:

1) Level of competency of your staff/co-workers.
2) Ability to gel with your team.

If you can't gel or delegate your work, you will suffer from burn-out which leads to turnover.

Ultimately a CM role is very much one of people management, gaining respect and mutual trust from all members in your community club. Go in with both eyes open.

Im a CM at Punggol and drawing $4000 basic with $450 allowances. I think the earlier guy mentioned $3400 is possible depending on his previous work experiences. Anyway for a 31 year old $3400 seems too little..

mind sharing ur age, and deg/ exp? tia!

Let's have a sense of perspective here. You might have been sold on this OPS Manager cum General Manager idea by PA, but this position is nowhere near what you have described.

GMs in the real world have actual P&L responsibilities and generally enjoy high autonomy on how they handle branches. Their direct reports are also professional senior managers from Finance, Ops, HR, IT etc.

Contrast this to a Constituency Manager. He has almost no independent decision making power in running the branch, all the activities his branch needs to run is dictated by higher ups or grassroots. Policies like marketing, IT, Pay Benefits etc is also top down from above. There is no Business Development component and financial decisions is all about working within $xxx that was given each year. People under him are mostly uncles aunties who are lowly educated and have been around for decades.

The closest private sector job to a CM is that of a Team Supervisor of a group of non-PMET workers. To say its a OPS Manager is already stretching the truth, to say its like a GM role is outright laughable.

PA recognizes this as well, that's why you see these super low salaries at 3+ to 4k. They are effectively paying a Senior Executive or Team Supervisor pay and this is what it is. While you may have the headcount under you in terms of numbers, the roles and responsibilites of the GM is not about how big your team is.

I'm not trying to denegrate the CMs out there, but you guys need to have a realistic view of how your jobs compare to private sector and also where your pay positioning is. It will be useful next time if you want to move on to another public or private sector job.

My age is 29 and got a 2nd upper class from a foreign uni. Has about 8 yrs of working experience from a previous ministry as MSO. (dip level)

i find you really shallow and ridiculous for the fact that you seems to think power and authority is much more important than the salary you drawing here.

Honestly, I read through the entire forum and nobody is talking CM as someone holding high power and position. We are only discussing about the salary. Where are you coming from?

Also, you describe drawing $3-4k as "super low" and 4k at 29 years old is no embarrassment at all. How many 29-30 yrs old are drawing $4k basic ?

Anyway, I am more than happy to draw my $4k basic and do what you describe as "
Team supervisor" role. We are here talking about salary and not comparing who has higher authority and power. You should be going to another forum and brag instead.

I like to emphasize again CM is just a title and nobody is overly excited and showing off about it. But to draw $4k basic is no shame at all and to perform the role of so call "team supervisor" is a decent role.

Wake up ur ideas

Btw, anyone can share the staff grading of a CM and the progression along the way?

I think his/her intention is good. He/She was just clarifying the misconceptions from Paychecksg, pointing out that CM is not the same level as the GM /Op Mgr in the pte sector, from both scope of responsibilities and salary level point of view. I don't think he/she was trying to belittle what a CM do.

Job responsibility not as same level as GM or Ops Mgr in private sector but pay wise is definitely among the higher band in excess of $4k basic. I would rather go for a high pay job with lesser responsbility. Call me CM GM or SM its just a title at the end of the day. HR professionals still look at your last drawn before they decide your next package.

The title for Senior CM has been changed to CD (Constituency Director). but just the title changed to director, it's still senior manager of a community club.

nothing to shout about.

I'm also working as a CM (formerly called Asst CM, but now they simply up the designation to CM, but still same lah). Basic 4020 + 450 allowances. Age about 30+ too. Male. Formerly also in MSO division and just managed to get in PA.

Progression? There are some CM work 10-20 years, still CM. And there are some CM work 0.5 years to 3 years, up to Deputy CD and within 5 years become CD.

The pay for Deputy CD is about 5k, i think.

CD may fetch between 5-7k, depending on the years of seniority. Some may be $8k.

Normally, it stays there... as a CD. Very difficult to climb from then onwards because where do you want to go? Not enough posts to promote to. There can only be so much Group CD and Deputy Director (HQ level).

Still need to reserve some posts for scholars leh.

so its better to join in mid career switch then to join as a fresh grad?

my friend joined with 1 yr experience in pvt sector, was offered 2850 + 450 allowance. basically fresh grad pay i would say.

seeing that theres only a few post to be promoted to, eg CD, meaning that he could be stuck with that low pay till 30-40s?

whats the increment like per yr assuming for avg performer?

still better to join early. The middle career switch makes one wonder where have all the relevant skills been to - no where. Most people switch in mid career mostly is because no other place to go. Either education not specialised enough or didn't really have good skills somewhere.

A friend of mine got C grade which is what most 70% people are getting. Basic 3250. Increment about 110. He just joined 6 mths. So prorated. Hence, he could be getting 220 based on a year. In his case, he could be taking around 6%.

I guage maybe 5% get A, 20% get B, 70% get C, and last 5% get those D, E, F, etc. My pure guess only.

But C is the most avg one.

how old is your friend now? which degree did he get? got honours?

24, DL deg from sim.. no honours..

1 year cannot really count as very long working experience. and no hons... meaning to say ur friend is in RMIT. every hons grade is counted.

but if can, find other job where can gain valuable working experience and the skills set are transferrable.

like most of the jobs in other places, you need to please the grassroots leaders, external customers, internal bosses, etc.

But unlike other places where in the event you offend any one of these stated above, you can't go elsewhere, esp if you are of a certain age and worked at PA for some years. Where can you go to after staying there for so long?

In other places, if you offended someone or quarrel with your boss, you still have skills' set to carry you to other places. Just send resume or get contacts from your customers and still can find. Because your experience adds value. Even if you are of a certain age in other places, if you are in senior management, you still can move.

But in PA, since most of the people are stuck at middle management, after some years if you quarrel with your boss or gana sabo by your subordinates, there's not much avenue to move.

So better think twice or thrice... or 4 times.

but if u join early, the skills/experiences are not transferable, next time if u are planning a career switch, theres not many places to switch to.. probably only general admin field..

Most likely the private sector will not even hire you in because your salary will be too high if you stay too long in civil service... but you don't have any useful skills.... If you're lucky, they might just offer you fresh grad salary at $2800.. And that is if you're not too old... Saw a lot of such cases who just did admin in the civil service...

I have no experience with PA, but from a 3rd party POV it seems a lot of PA Managers and Directors here have a very strange view of what the markets outside are paying for Managers and Directors...

Manager at 4k and Director at 6k/7k is definitely not the norm outside. In many companies 7k will not even qualify as Manager much less Director. It seems that some people working in PA think the pay is very generous and in excess of their job scope!? And we even have people drawing 4k think they are GM...Weird...

spoiumn miracles
 

Agree. I'm a lowly Assistant Manager, with no direct or indirect reports. $7k per month. That makes me a Senior Director at P.A.?

End of the day if they really like the job it doesn't matter as long as they are aware the low pay and willing to sacrifice money for something they're passionate in.

I was just trying to correct some of the flawed thinking PA employees over here seem to have on their own job and didn't expect such emotional response. They stay in PA for the rest of their lives then still OK, but they will become laughing stocks if they try to go back to other stat boards, GLC or private sector selling themselves as Directors and GMs.

But I must say judging by the response here, the PA head honcho seems to be doing a good job in selling them inflated titles and deflated pays.

I think PA job is not that easy and comfortable as what a lot of people are saying. Sure, the skills are not transferrable and the pay is laughable compared to many private sectors' jobs, but it's not like the past where PA staff just sit at the counter and chit-chat until someone walks to the CC and want to apply for some course.

Point to note is that, yes, the managers and directors in PA, are not really directors per se. Just the name and I heard someone said, "I'm a CD (constituency director), and I give directions as to how to carry this job forward." I was like abit disgusted. The directions are not really directions but just 'carry forward directions' from the top management. Just a mouthpiece and not really giving directions.

And CD's pay, as I've mentioned earlier, is about $6-$8k.

I think alot of people in private sector are earning this amount easily.

But some people just want to 'hao lian' and think they are very capable in PA, especially when the 'director' title kicks in.

Are you working in MNC or SME?

Can AM @ SME fetch this price or must go to MNC @ AM then can fetch $7k.

I agree with you that CM and CD jobs aren't really sitting around doing nothing types.

But I have to add that base on my observation the CMs are still OK. They can probably still transfer skill sets to other organizations as long as they are OK with a reduced title. Lots of companies out there can pay $4k for team leads / supervisors, as long as they can demonstrate people and planning skills should be no problem.

The same thing unfortunately cannot be said for CDs. These long serving staff are sort of "rewarded" with a fancy title and long serving pay which means they probably cannot move to another organization easily on the same pay. CDs are basically office/admin managers out there and I seriously don't think there are a lot of companies willing to pay >$7k for admin managers unless the organization is very big and the job is Asia / APAC in nature.

Just to clarify, I am under no dis-illusion that a CM equates to an Ops Manager / General Manager, but am merely trying to put a context to the discussion for others to build on. :)

So you knowingly put a context that you yourself dun believe in so as to have a discussion for others to build on?

giving them a inflated title just means they will have difficulty getting a job elsewhere...so good luck....

i left eons ago and never look back. :)

how long were u in pa? what did u move on to do after that?

ROFL, this one really self-pwnz

Can AM @ SME fetch this price or must go to MNC @ AM then can fetch $7k.[/QUOTE]

What's the definition of SME in Singapore? My company self-declare to be SME. Singaporean company with just under S$1billion annual turnover.

Definitely the AMs here are getting in the region of $7k per month.

What's the definition of SME in Singapore? My company self-declare to be SME. Singaporean company with just under S$1billion annual turnover.

Definitely the AMs here are getting in the region of $7k per month.[/QUOTE]

In my company, most of the managers are only getting between 5 to 6K. With allowances and bonus, can barely hit 100k annually.

In my company, most of the managers are only getting between 5 to 6K. With allowances and bonus, can barely hit 100k annually.[/QUOTE]

There is no hard & fast rule, but generally turnover of $1billion is usually considered medium or medium small enterprise.

Singapore does not have any real MNC per se as even the biggest companies like the DBS, OCBC, CDL, SIA, F&N etc. are at best regional companies. I guess when people say MNC they generally refer to big US or European companies that are in the S&P or FTSE or some household brand name that most people will know.

Hmm.
 

What is the standard salary range for a executive in private companies may i kindly asked?
Hence, from what I've read - should the rank of a Deputy Director be equivalent to the rank of an Assistant Manager in private sector, narrowing this down towards Managers & Assistant Managers - it means to say they are actually the equivalent of titles like Executives & Management Support Officers in private sectors respectively?

If we were to state that POV towards the above-mentioned positions, it somehow doesn't really match up appropriately. I've asked around different people working in different positions in PA - apparently, Assistant Managers' starting salaries can be as low as $2900 to as high as $3700 (not counting in the allowance of $450-$600) therefore their total starting salary package may be around $3500 onwards, whereas a Manager may start at around $5000 onwards. That means to say if we try to align the position to that of a Management Support Officer (which is often a diploma-holder's job), the MSO can earn a starting salary of $3500 and an Executive can earn $5000 as a start in private industries?? Isn't that already a graduate's pay? And I thought both Executives and MSOs are usually meant for diploma holders not graduates?

There is a slight gaping loophole in this issue of about positions and salaries, from how I view it. It very much depends on the kind of industries the job positions are coming from, that will ultimately reflect upon the salaries of the employees. Overall, such matters are often hard/not really reasonable to begin comparison with and IF we were to compare eventually, it just doesn't make much sense as each industry/company/organisation have different target audience to reach out to, goals to achieve for and even different views of what a successful workplan is.

What goals may be deem important to say, a private organisation - may not even exist probably in a stat board like LTA/PA or even in a ministry MOH/MOE. And what work objectives that a stat board/ministry might place emphasis on, may probably be of a low-scale priority when put to a private organisation's views. Hence, each organisation's salary scales, remuneration packages I believe, have been thought through thoroughly before being decided upon - depending on the work environment, the nature of job position, job scope etc. And again I mentioned, this cannot be just simply compared to the job titles and salaries of those in private industries as they may have a whole different set of skills/job description/scope/target audience/goals.

how was your interview with PA

Just so happen that I chance upon this, I thought I'd input my 2 cents worth.

I'm currently a CM in one of the CCs around, armed with an SIM degree and I'm commanding about 3.6k (including allowance). As attractive as it might sound, there's always a price to pay, such as burning your weekends (at times consecutively for weeks), attending meetings on your off days, or having people calling you up out of office hours (eating or sleeping) to press you for stuff.

And the reason the position is always available is not because nobody is getting recruited, it's like many of you said, the high turnover rate. Many do not complete the 3-year contract upon employment, and even if they do, many do not want the promotion to a Deputy Director, as more time would be catered for work (as if a CM isn't bad enough), and end up staying for as long to 6 years not wanting a promotion.

I am one who is thinking of settling down with my partner in about a year's time, and this job has created some cracks in our relationship, thanks to all the time over the weekends in the office or somewhere else attending events and meetings.

However, having said all that, it depends on the CC you are posted to. If you're unlucky, you might encounter horrible grassroot leaders who scream at you, and directors who couldn't care less apart from saving their own ass.

And really, the position sounds very overrated, what we do here is nowhere what a manager in the public sector does. Having said that, I've decided to submit my resignation after CNY.

Happy Lunar New Year to all of you out there, and I hope this provides a decent (albeit a little biased) insight to the world of a Constituency Manager.

Good for you this year 2013. You finally find a resolution. Time to move on.

Ridiculous...
 

How does a CM survive? I don't understand, someone please explain. Its either you're the #foreveralone kind else you're an ambitious idiot giving up a real life for a no life. Come on, get a life. This job will jeopardise everything you cherish now and yes you may a good pay but you will never get the time to spend them happily so why bother? When there's imbalance in your life how good can it be?

Furthermore you can never benefit much from this job because you will have to do lots of ad hoc duties, come tell me which low pay job doesn't allow such experiences?!

Therefore I decided to resign after X months of being a CM. I had enough!!

Try this job at your own risk. If you want this as your first job after you graduated (its just a few hundred [definitely less than $500] more than a 9-6 mon-fri kind of job come on...this small sum of money more important or family/relationship/friends?) , be prepared to cry.

You have been warned!

Considering the horrible work hours and average pay, I'm sure PA suffer frome extreme high attrtion rate.

One of the tactics I heard which my friend kana before is they keep pyschoing you that you are being placed in a "leadership position" with potential to move on to greater things next time. They do this by ridiculously inflating job titles, then imply that these inflated titles are equal to their counterparts in the pte sector.

My firend work there for 6+ years and was promoted to Director. His original plan was to get the promotion then find jobs in the pte sector outside at the similar level. The jobs he applied for nobody call him up for interview and he have to slowly downgrade until Assistant Manager level then got interview. One company even made him an offer as Snr Exec saying they scared he can't handle transfer from public to pte sector!

I think in every organiation, there are different reasons why certain titles are used. Example, a senior manager in a MNC may be called a regional director when posted oveseas assuming relatively similar responsibilities. A lab manager might be re-designate to plant gm at a smaller plant in the same company. Might be fairer to look at pay scale which is very related to job size. PA uses PAL system which is quite aligned to the civil service MX scheme. Entry is Pal 6 which is quite similar to MX13.

I am a CME drawing 2.1k basic, but due to the high turnover rate I covered most of the work a CM should. I am very displeased...