Jobless for a long long time

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This debate is pointless, most critical departments in mnc do not even hire diploma holders to start with, maybe you see a diploma holder in it support

Yes. We all from MNC so we know. Some people still say diploma can take 6 sigmah. I go for 7 sigmah course and no diploma holder attend and found the senior management say 6 sigmah and above only for degree holders. All the dipl holders in my mnc are technician level at most engineer level. Will not go to M level, all stay in E only.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yes. We all from MNC so we know. Some people still say diploma can take 6 sigmah. I go for 7 sigmah course and no diploma holder attend and found the senior management say 6 sigmah and above only for degree holders. All the dipl holders in my mnc are technician level at most engineer level. Will not go to M level, all stay in E only.

Yes, they don't understand that the degree is only one of the many elements that push you up. In the MNC reality, track records, reputation, connections, opportunities, EQ, work performance, communication skills, able to get things done, teamwork, problem solver, bring in the revenue on top of the hardskills honed through years of experience all play a part too. These cannot be learned and developed in school. They don't understand that your employment history makes you an alumni in the industry too.

Diploma holder with high EQ, knows the people in the industry and has a good reputation, 10 years of experience in MNCs like Micron with 2 promotions and involvement in major global projects throughout the decade from member to team manager holding lean six sigma black belt, PMP, multiple ISO internal auditor certificates.

vs

degree holder with 10 years of experience in the comfort of a GLC that places its promotion track in place without challenges.

You will see the stark difference during an interview.

Looking at the thread, we can summarize it to the following.

1. Possible for Diploma holders to excel faster than degree holder and MNCs are the ones leveraging on their talent pool on this by not limiting the potential of their talent resource.

2. If you are a fresh grad, go and get a degree because without experience, you have nothing to compete with others. And don't dream that the degree is going to make you better. because you still have to perform to get ahead.

3. The OP who resigned from the MNC because he/she cannot stand reporting to a diploma holder as a degree holder is stupid and deserves being unemployed for long.

4. Some people like to pretend to be from MNC when so obviously they are not.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Looking at the thread, we can summarize it to the following.

1. Possible for Diploma holders to excel faster than degree holder and MNCs are the ones leveraging on their talent pool on this by not limiting the potential of their talent resource.

2. If you are a fresh grad, go and get a degree because without experience, you have nothing to compete with others. And don't dream that the degree is going to make you better. because you still have to perform to get ahead.

3. The OP who resigned from the MNC because he/she cannot stand reporting to a diploma holder as a degree holder is stupid and deserves being unemployed for long.

4. Some people like to pretend to be from MNC when so obviously they are not.

Agree with this and would add on to point 2 that if you are a diploma grad today, go and do your degree. 3-4 years of experience would not get you ahead of that entry level a degree grad would enter

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Agree with this and would add on to point 2 that if you are a diploma grad today, go and do your degree. 3-4 years of experience would not get you ahead of that entry level a degree grad would enter

Not too sure with that. But I have seen quite a number of diploma holders doing better and a fresh degree grad couldn't match that. Years down the road, that 4 years of headstart, with plenty of professional certificates, good results, good attitude, charisma, leadership and recognition from our HQ in Germany, he became my boss forming the typical degree report to diploma holder our OP resigned from.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not too sure with that. But I have seen quite a number of diploma holders doing better and a fresh degree grad couldn't match that. Years down the road, that 4 years of headstart, with plenty of professional certificates, good results, good attitude, charisma, leadership and recognition from our HQ in Germany, he became my boss forming the typical degree report to diploma holder our OP resigned from.

im sure everything is possible. but these are far and few.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

im sure everything is possible. but these are far and few.

I don't want to start assuming but I have seen quite a few due to the difficulties obtaining a degree in singapore during the 80s and 90s, these folks are currently in their 40s and 50s already. My boss is in his late 40s, and he is not alone. But these people tend to have some common traits. Able to take hardships, agressive and objective oriented but have high EQ and they deliver resuls on time. I worked under 1 of them, a Singaporean posted to Germany for a few years when I was attached to Germany for 6 months. He could speak good German and very good Chinese effectively linking between Germany, China and US for the Germans in Germany. I only found out during a beer session at some beer garden that he didn't do his degree because he had to support his family when he ORDed. He won his former boss's trust and worked his way up. My boss is more conventional. He was posted to China for 2 years as a senior Enginner and now he is manager. Still no degree but a MBB in 6 sigma and many other professional certs like PMP.

I guess it is their grit and resolve to perform. These traits are lacking in the youngsters we see today regardless having a degree or diploma.

wa diploma vs degree can talk so many pages

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't want to start assuming but I have seen quite a few due to the difficulties obtaining a degree in singapore during the 80s and 90s, these folks are currently in their 40s and 50s already. My boss is in his late 40s, and he is not alone. But these people tend to have some common traits. Able to take hardships, agressive and objective oriented but have high EQ and they deliver resuls on time. I worked under 1 of them, a Singaporean posted to Germany for a few years when I was attached to Germany for 6 months. He could speak good German and very good Chinese effectively linking between Germany, China and US for the Germans in Germany. I only found out during a beer session at some beer garden that he didn't do his degree because he had to support his family when he ORDed. He won his former boss's trust and worked his way up. My boss is more conventional. He was posted to China for 2 years as a senior Enginner and now he is manager. Still no degree but a MBB in 6 sigma and many other professional certs like PMP.

I guess it is their grit and resolve to perform. These traits are lacking in the youngsters we see today regardless having a degree or diploma.

Maybe you're right... But I have seen quite a number of diploma holders doing better and a fresh degree grad couldn't match that. Years down the road, that 4 years of headstart, with plenty of professional certificates, good results, good attitude, charisma, leadership and recognition from our HQ in Germany, he became my boss forming the typical degree report to diploma holder our OP resigned from. But I want to point out to you that in an MNC, nobody goes around asking your educational level, management or not. Even HR don't keep track on that. Because it is plain stupid to do that. In Germany and USA, you get a mixture of different education background on leadership positions. But one thing that's sure is that they either have connections, a lot of experience or previous successful track records. You need to have systemic promotions based on paper qualifications in order to be 99% sure no particular paper qualification makes it to that level. And the closest one doing that is a GLC or our local stat board. In a feel good story there may be some diploma holders who will rise higher than degree holders, but if we compare like for like: a competent diploma holder against a competent degree holder; the degree holder starts with a head start if he is groomed in one of these programs, it’s like running a 100m race and he is starting 50m ahead, how fast do you think you can run? It is always about a systematic promotional system. A diploma should never surpass a degree holder so that the hierarchy is not messed up. That is why we systematically design our ranking to reward base on paper qualification over performance and the so called value. A diploma holder no matter how much faster he can run should never be given the chance to run faster than a degree holder. Resigning because OP was overtook by a diploma holder may sound extreme, but if you look at it closely sounds right. If anyone who outperforms another gets promoted, we will have a higher rank with a mixture of all sorts of qualifications. Like that what is the point of getting a degree?

We cannot compare today with 80s and 90s. I know of a consulting partner who never did his degree, this was back in the day. Today this is almost impossible because you cannot even get in without good grades and additional awards.