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Newhere 30-06-2011 11:23 AM

Private Banking Salaries
 
I am in my mid twenties and thinking of starting a career in private banking. Would like however to gather some info... hope fellow forummers can enlighten me:

Generally, what would be the pay range for someone in private banking:

- at entry level (roughly mid twenties)

- at mid thirties

- at mid forties

- at mid fifties

What would be the (roughly) title of such a person at each of the above stage? I am talking about someone performing the role of private banker or an associate moving up towards the role of a private banker, and not the support services....

Unregistered 26-07-2011 02:37 PM

hmmm
 
how come you made it sound like you will definitely get the job? Dont you know how hard it is to become a private banker? Think you should first ask yourself whether you qualify to be one and how are you going to be one before even talking about the title and salary etc.

Newhere 26-07-2011 03:34 PM

I am sure no job is easy but I am prepared to work hard. Still, I would like to know I will be working hard for a career that is something. So it is important for me know how such a career will pan out usually, to make sure I don't regret my choice.

Liverpool 26-07-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newhere (Post 13764)
I am in my mid twenties and thinking of starting a career in private banking. Would like however to gather some info... hope fellow forummers can enlighten me:

Generally, what would be the pay range for someone in private banking:

- at entry level (roughly mid twenties)

- at mid thirties

- at mid forties

- at mid fifties

What would be the (roughly) title of such a person at each of the above stage? I am talking about someone performing the role of private banker or an associate moving up towards the role of a private banker, and not the support services....

what is ur background? have finance related internships or jobs before?

what is ur education? Preferably finance background, CFA a plus, a good uni degree with good honors = analyst. A good masters = associate.

are you good looking? Be honest.

Can you sell? any sales related jobs u r doing now? are you prepared to be judged by sales? you can sell = high bonus. If not, you can say bye bye.

can you network? What do you usually do to network? u attend networking events? U haf rich frens? u play golf?

sometimes u may start low first, as personal banker, meaning the ones that are at neighbourhood banks or small branches asking auntie uncle to buy from u... u may haf to do that first until u r really good enough to handle the big fish... are you prepared to do that for the first few years?

its not easy but if u can sell, u can do v well later in life...

qualify for the job first than ask abt the pay...

these are what i heard from my private banking friends...

Unregistered 26-07-2011 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newhere (Post 14677)
I am sure no job is easy but I am prepared to work hard. Still, I would like to know I will be working hard for a career that is something. So it is important for me know how such a career will pan out usually, to make sure I don't regret my choice.

Lots of people are prepared to work hard, play politics, sacrifice family time to make it big. If you are in the right field (which private banking is), and with lots of luck, you'll do very well. Otherwise, just be prepared to lead a mediocre life. Be happy lah.

Liverpool 26-07-2011 03:56 PM

also... the way you are phrasing the qn is that i shld earn more as i age...

thats not the case... its a v sales specific job... u can sell, u can earn more than seniors.... so it works both ways... if u r senior and think u can sit back and dun sell, then the company will say bye bye to you..

and private banking goes by ranks... analyst - Associate - VP - MD

analyst earns ard 50k to 60k per yr... so basically u do sai kang... the client may want to look into fixed income products, so the associate arrows u to do some research on that. u may sit in at some meetings to learn more.

associate earns ard 80k-100k... these are ppl with exp and meet clients. they network for more clients and try to work with them...

take note that with bonus, they will earn more, depending on the company compensation plan and how much clients u bring in....

another way is go thru personal banking path, so if u r really good at selling to auntie uncle, they will promote u to private banking...

VP and MD i am not sure, but i heard can be 500k a yr or even millions depending on how good you are...

end of the day, like any other job, mid thirties does not guarantee u associate... mid forties also does not guarantee u to be VP... its how hard u work, network, look for more opportunities, jump ship etc...

if u want more money, go for IB... it pays higher over there but u haf to be really smart and work longer hrs...

n dont forget, u r not the only person who wants to go private banking... heck i wanna go sales and trading but do i have what the companies are looking for? what is my background and selling pt? u have to ask urself this than just saying i wanna do this or that...

Unregistered 26-07-2011 04:40 PM

I hate to burst your bubble, but it takes more than just hard work to be a Private banker. you need to have your client base first and the only way you can do it is to start in consumer bank or priority bank ( unless you have contacts that can give you USD 100M AUM)

Most Private bankers pay their dues and are in the market for at least 3 to 5 years minimum in order to make it to the level.

Still, no harm starting out as assistant, especially if you are assisting a Private banker who plans to retire and ultimately pass you his clients.

undiscern 26-07-2011 05:18 PM

Chances are if you are in your early 40s and if there is a major recession, can pack up liao. you will be the 1st to be sacrifice. then when economy picks up, dont expect to get hired, as there are tons of young, energetic, hungry and cheaper new graduates waiting to be hired. you will most likely end up as taxi driver if you do not save prudently when earning big bucks.

Unregistered 26-07-2011 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undiscern (Post 14686)
Chances are if you are in your early 40s and if there is a major recession, can pack up liao. you will be the 1st to be sacrifice. then when economy picks up, dont expect to get hired, as there are tons of young, energetic, hungry and cheaper new graduates waiting to be hired. you will most likely end up as taxi driver if you do not save prudently when earning big bucks.

In a recession, all jobs are not secure, not just the banking jobs.

undiscern 26-07-2011 11:26 PM

civil service and gov jobs are quite secure. banking job is usually the first to be cut, and when they cut it is in thousands.

Unregistered 27-07-2011 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undiscern (Post 14696)
civil service and gov jobs are quite secure. banking job is usually the first to be cut, and when they cut it is in thousands.

That's a misconception. How many of your friends in banking were fired in the last crisis? For me, I only know of 1, out of more than 100 acquaintances, friends and family.

It's a misconception propagated by those not in the know and by those in the know who deliberately want to portray a "high risk high reward" image to make them look macho.

Unregistered 28-07-2011 12:10 PM

any suggestion of good banks that will take in a fresh engineering graduate with 3rd class honors...

Unregistered 28-07-2011 02:10 PM

A typical rm usually has aum ( assets under management) of around 100 million. They are expected to churn them and earn 1%.

Around 40% of revenues are used for salaries+bonus for rm, investment advisors, credit risk, back office, senior management.

So you would expect rm at vp level with 100m would get max 300k per year for base+bonus

Unregistered 28-07-2011 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14768)
any suggestion of good banks that will take in a fresh engineering graduate with 3rd class honors...

ppl already look down on 2nd lower and u got 3rd class... assuming u not super good looking and dun haf connections, i will say u most prob can only work in back office of banks...

Unregistered 29-07-2011 12:37 AM

..
 
Dude, people usually don t just start off in private banking.

My advice, start off as a personal banker. Work your ass off. You got sales, within 1-2 years you will be able to move to priority banking. Work your ass off again (usually by second or third year you may be able to slack off if you re good enough). By than if you got sales, the headhunters and the private banks will come knocking.

The basic will usually be quite near to your last drawn, depends on what you bargain for also. Anyway its usually above 10k a month not including bonus. But you better make sure you got the AUM to bring over coz if not within a year you re probably out again.

The other way is start off as a private banking assistant, and hope that one fine day when your private banker is old enough and going to retire he might pass you his portfolio to manage.

Unregistered 29-07-2011 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14771)
A typical rm usually has aum ( assets under management) of around 100 million. They are expected to churn them and earn 1%.

Around 40% of revenues are used for salaries+bonus for rm, investment advisors, credit risk, back office, senior management.

So you would expect rm at vp level with 100m would get max 300k per year for base+bonus

Max 300K on a US 100M pot is a myth.
If you are smart, you leverage up your pot of gold.
A USd 100M can easily be USd 150M
Revenue could easily be USD 2M (Assuming you are active in your trades)

A USd 2 M Rev = a pay of USd 300K to USD 400 K or SGd 360 to SGD 480K depending on how generous your boss are.

Aim for blue sky.

BUT first, slog for a good 5 years or more from the basic bank to acquire your assets and experience

Unregistered 29-07-2011 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14811)
Max 300K on a US 100M pot is a myth.
If you are smart, you leverage up your pot of gold.
A USd 100M can easily be USd 150M
Revenue could easily be USD 2M (Assuming you are active in your trades)

A USd 2 M Rev = a pay of USd 300K to USD 400 K or SGd 360 to SGD 480K depending on how generous your boss are.

Aim for blue sky.

BUT first, slog for a good 5 years or more from the basic bank to acquire your assets and experience

So that's how private bankers do the churning and make money.

Unregistered 29-07-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14813)
So that's how private bankers do the churning and make money.

Churning is a dirty word. Leverage is not necessary dirty business but smart business for clients.

You just need to know how to use it wisely.
A successful Private Banker is not one that churns and churns , that is consumer banking style. If you churn, rest assure, you will not last long.
In Private Banking business , it is not a race but a marathon. so you dont churn for the sake of making money. you do by volume , not necessary bigger margin.

Not a easy business to go into...

Unregistered 30-07-2011 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14811)
Max 300K on a US 100M pot is a myth.
If you are smart, you leverage up your pot of gold.
A USd 100M can easily be USd 150M
Revenue could easily be USD 2M (Assuming you are active in your trades)

A USd 2 M Rev = a pay of USd 300K to USD 400 K or SGd 360 to SGD 480K depending on how generous your boss are.

Aim for blue sky.

BUT first, slog for a good 5 years or more from the basic bank to acquire your assets and experience

you serious? Advising clients to have 50% gain is quite impossible esp now where the banks are not extending much leverage to the client. Plus these days, clients are in risk avoidance mode, no more accumlator structures, no more structured finance stuff. how to make money without taking risk or leverage? good old days are gone, that is why CS and UBS are cutting staff as their revenues are not increasing as fast as salary compensations as their churn rate is getting lower....

anyway, if you can make 50% for client, you are actually better off running your own hedge fund.

Liverpool 30-07-2011 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14845)
you serious? Advising clients to have 50% gain is quite impossible esp now where the banks are not extending much leverage to the client. Plus these days, clients are in risk avoidance mode, no more accumlator structures, no more structured finance stuff. how to make money without taking risk or leverage? good old days are gone, that is why CS and UBS are cutting staff as their revenues are not increasing as fast as salary compensations as their churn rate is getting lower....

anyway, if you can make 50% for client, you are actually better off running your own hedge fund.

couldn't agree more...

Contributor 31-07-2011 09:50 PM

Some facts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpool (Post 14852)
couldn't agree more...

Dear bros, I work in a bank. Just to contribute some facts here.

1. Bankers do churn their customers in order to meet their targets. Bankers talk about the revenue they generate, not the profit they make for customers. For most products, they have some discretion how much spread they want to take from customers. For eg. If pdt A earns 8% interest, banker can tell customer it earns 5% interest and pockets the 3%. If you think this is not very right, then you are not suited to work as private/priority banker.

2. Accumulators/ structured finance/ pdts are still around and selling like hotcakes.

3. When an earlier post mentioned using leverage to increase a 100M AUM to 150M AUM to generate more revenue, it doesn't mean the banker helped the client to make 50% profits! It merely meant that the client can buy more stuff using his 100M (aka gearing, leverage, financing, borrow to buy more etc) I agree that if the banker can help the client make 50% profits, he would hv already set up a hedge fund himself! The truth is, bankers care more about their own revenue targets.

Unregistered 03-08-2011 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14845)
you serious? Advising clients to have 50% gain is quite impossible esp now where the banks are not extending much leverage to the client. Plus these days, clients are in risk avoidance mode, no more accumlator structures, no more structured finance stuff. how to make money without taking risk or leverage? good old days are gone, that is why CS and UBS are cutting staff as their revenues are not increasing as fast as salary compensations as their churn rate is getting lower....

anyway, if you can make 50% for client, you are actually better off running your own hedge fund.

I think you are mistake , leverage up 50% is not the same as gain 50%.
But leverage can up your % of return. You want the magic of leverage, I will show you

Buy bond 10 year, pays, 6%
Take leverage 1 month at 1.5%
Increase return 4.5%

Assuming 1 M
1M earns 6% (60000)
0.5M leverage earns 4.5 % (22500)
total earn 85000 for client or 8.5%

RM earns on income from bond AND leverage income.

Dont jump the gun before understanding leverage. If so, banking business is not for you.

As for the banker who proclaim you churn. Well. its a matter of surviving in the business. Sure you have to meet your target. But if you can meet it once and not ever again as a result of churning, where will you be in 3 years time?

ans : Another bank.
There are more products out there that are not necessary churning. Ie insurance, SBLC and if you are in the super league, IPO and big ticket loan items. All these will provide you the revenue you need.

In this business (private banking)its about working smart, not necessary working hard.
A true blue private Banker is unlike a priority banker.

Just trying to give a different pespective of Private banking

Unregistered 06-08-2011 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 14992)
I think you are mistake , leverage up 50% is not the same as gain 50%.
But leverage can up your % of return. You want the magic of leverage, I will show you

Buy bond 10 year, pays, 6%
Take leverage 1 month at 1.5%
Increase return 4.5%

Assuming 1 M
1M earns 6% (60000)
0.5M leverage earns 4.5 % (22500)
total earn 85000 for client or 8.5%

RM earns on income from bond AND leverage income.

Dont jump the gun before understanding leverage. If so, banking business is not for you.

As for the banker who proclaim you churn. Well. its a matter of surviving in the business. Sure you have to meet your target. But if you can meet it once and not ever again as a result of churning, where will you be in 3 years time?

ans : Another bank.
There are more products out there that are not necessary churning. Ie insurance, SBLC and if you are in the super league, IPO and big ticket loan items. All these will provide you the revenue you need.

In this business (private banking)its about working smart, not necessary working hard.
A true blue private Banker is unlike a priority banker.

Just trying to give a different pespective of Private banking

I work in a top tier PB bank, surprised by your hunger to push products, the way you manage the client money will eventually put in the bad books of the ultra-high networth community. Better keep your reputation, as it is a small community, and they will talk among each other. I believe you will out of PB if you believe in screwing the clients
Most of the clients networth these days are tied up in non-liquid assets e.g shares of their IPO company, plantations, etc Their LTV is marked lower due to tight credit control these days, so cant leverage much further.

Unregistered 07-08-2011 02:23 AM

Quite a lot of it also depends on which region's client you are handling too. Generally, european clients leverage a lot less but their rm's earn from other products such uptakes into funds and (usually) higher spread from cof. Asian clients, especially from hk love to max out all the leverage they can get but they are more price sensitive and demand a lower spread.

Liverpool 07-08-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 15110)
I work in a top tier PB bank, surprised by your hunger to push products, the way you manage the client money will eventually put in the bad books of the ultra-high networth community. Better keep your reputation, as it is a small community, and they will talk among each other. I believe you will out of PB if you believe in screwing the clients
Most of the clients networth these days are tied up in non-liquid assets e.g shares of their IPO company, plantations, etc Their LTV is marked lower due to tight credit control these days, so cant leverage much further.

hi since you are working in PB, would you advise someone to join PB? Any regrets? If given a second chance, will u pursue other fields in finance instead?

The finance field is v wide, up to a certain pt, its very hard for u to change fields afterwards. for example, I have a fresh grad friend who enrolls into a fixed income trading program and finds that he does not like it after a few years. He wants to do research on equities and publish analyst reports. However, when he applies for such openings for equities analyst, normally they reject him because he has no prior experience. He is still looking for such opportunties and he may have to take a Masters or MBA to start all over again...

Unregistered 10-08-2011 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 15110)
I work in a top tier PB bank, surprised by your hunger to push products, the way you manage the client money will eventually put in the bad books of the ultra-high networth community. Better keep your reputation, as it is a small community, and they will talk among each other. I believe you will out of PB if you believe in screwing the clients
Most of the clients networth these days are tied up in non-liquid assets e.g shares of their IPO company, plantations, etc Their LTV is marked lower due to tight credit control these days, so cant leverage much further.

Interesting
In what way do I screw client? By leveraging or by meeting my target?
There is nothing wrong with meeting target and client making money.

Unless you find a problem with that.

As for pushing products. I guess you choose not to read what I said about revenues from other sources that are not related to trading AND beneficially to client.

Pity , a top tier private banker that cannot read.
That I worried for your client.

Unregistered 18-10-2011 12:50 PM

Read this thread with interest.

A VP in private banking earns not more than $300k (sing dollars?). I would think a VP is someone about 30 to 35 years old? Although it is high, I do know that investment banking pays a lot more for someone that age range. Seems like despite all the talk in singapore about private banking, it doesn't pay as well...

Unregistered 18-10-2011 02:53 PM

My neighbour keeps saying her son is a high flying banker. I know he trades forex. Does he earn a lot ?

Unregistered 18-10-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17315)
My neighbour keeps saying her son is a high flying banker. I know he trades forex. Does he earn a lot ?

That's a trader, not a banker.

Is a janitor working in a bank called a banker too?

Unregistered 18-10-2011 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17319)
That's a trader, not a banker.

Is a janitor working in a bank called a banker too?

Ya, you know how people like to sound more important than they really are.

So how much do they earn. She said he works in a big foreign bank. Drives a Merc and holidays in the Maldives etc. Plus collect expensive watches... High flying lifestyle. Kids ride horses somemore.

Unregistered 18-10-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17321)
Ya, you know how people like to sound more important than they really are.

So how much do they earn. She said he works in a big foreign bank. Drives a Merc and holidays in the Maldives etc. Plus collect expensive watches... High flying lifestyle. Kids ride horses somemore.

Well, traders earn a lot too. They get paid to trade other people's money.

Unregistered 18-10-2011 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17299)
Read this thread with interest.

A VP in private banking earns not more than $300k (sing dollars?). I would think a VP is someone about 30 to 35 years old? Although it is high, I do know that investment banking pays a lot more for someone that age range. Seems like despite all the talk in singapore about private banking, it doesn't pay as well...

Ministers and permanent secretaries earn more. If your dad is King Abdullah, you don't even need to work.

Unregistered 18-10-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17326)
Ministers and permanent secretaries earn more. If your dad is King Abdullah, you don't even need to work.

Any ministers and perm secs within 30-35 yrs of age? They seem to be getting younger and younger. Anyway, i believe in a bank, traders actually earn lotsa of moola.

Can't recall but I thought the latest UBS rogue trader was only 31 years old. His package was about 200k pounds, excluding bonus (which is an additional 400k pounds).

If I'm not wrong, this is the order of big packages in a bank: (1) traders (2) investment banking (3) private banking.

Unregistered 19-10-2011 05:36 PM

connection oferkb
 
I heard for a swiss private bank in Singapore the private bankers average around mid to later 30s.

They have a base salary of $200K to $250K per annum, inclusive of bonuses this usually amounts to $500-$600k per annum on average. Those who can fully hit their annual targets draw a total of about S$1 mil.

Their assistant private bankers who do all the admin work and accounts operations for them draw about $100k per annum with bonuses around 4-6 months depending on the private banker they are under. They have no career progression to private banker tho.

Unregistered 19-10-2011 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17377)
I heard for a swiss private bank in Singapore the private bankers average around mid to later 30s.

They have a base salary of $200K to $250K per annum, inclusive of bonuses this usually amounts to $500-$600k per annum on average. Those who can fully hit their annual targets draw a total of about S$1 mil.

Their assistant private bankers who do all the admin work and accounts operations for them draw about $100k per annum with bonuses around 4-6 months depending on the private banker they are under. They have no career progression to private banker tho.

Wow, from $300k for 30 to 35 years old to S$600k on average in later 30s, nice 100% jump! Aren't bank bonuses being curbed?!?!?

Unregistered 20-10-2011 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17377)
I heard for a swiss private bank in Singapore the private bankers average around mid to later 30s.

They have a base salary of $200K to $250K per annum, inclusive of bonuses this usually amounts to $500-$600k per annum on average. Those who can fully hit their annual targets draw a total of about S$1 mil.

Their assistant private bankers who do all the admin work and accounts operations for them draw about $100k per annum with bonuses around 4-6 months depending on the private banker they are under. They have no career progression to private banker tho.

I highly doubt your stats are correct given the age range...especially once u mention the assistant RM making 100k p.a..lol. What u mention is unlikely to be the norm/average.

Unregistered 20-10-2011 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17398)
I highly doubt your stats are correct given the age range...especially once u mention the assistant RM making 100k p.a..lol. What u mention is unlikely to be the norm/average.

Err... too high or too low?

Unregistered 22-10-2011 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17399)
Err... too high or too low?

Actually is about right but you forgot to mention the experience required. I saw a posting from HR before for ARM with at least 7-8 years of exp. Was offering $7k+

A fresh one would probably be half that or so

Unregistered 27-10-2011 12:26 PM

Dont want to burst your bubble.. in my line of work, I do see the payroll info for private bankers.

I would say that junior private bankers 1-5 years (mostly these are the assistants) start off with very low salary. I've seen many below 3k p/m. Bonus? 2-3 months in recent years (despite all the hype of SG growing as a PWM hub)

For senior bankers (from IC number can see those are between late 30s to 40s), monthly salary more than 20k are common. But most stuck within a certain bandwith. Bonus are very varied.. seen alot 60-120k.


But even in the non-banks, there are alot of people (department heads etc) who earn 20k plus per month.

Of course there are the extreme outliers. Just like any other industry. But only a few.. 1-2 out of 100?

Unregistered 27-10-2011 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 17595)
Dont want to burst your bubble.. in my line of work, I do see the payroll info for private bankers.

I would say that junior private bankers 1-5 years (mostly these are the assistants) start off with very low salary. I've seen many below 3k p/m. Bonus? 2-3 months in recent years (despite all the hype of SG growing as a PWM hub)

For senior bankers (from IC number can see those are between late 30s to 40s), monthly salary more than 20k are common. But most stuck within a certain bandwith. Bonus are very varied.. seen alot 60-120k.


But even in the non-banks, there are alot of people (department heads etc) who earn 20k plus per month.

Of course there are the extreme outliers. Just like any other industry. But only a few.. 1-2 out of 100?

Your numbers dun even make sense. You say those 5yrs exp & below make <3k, but suddenly those in late 30s (I assume 10 - 15 yrs exp) make >20k. So a typical guy joins as private banker for the 1st 5 years as a loser who can't even make 3k and suddenly in the next 10 years become superstar rise to >20k?

While many junior private bankers do play a more support role, because of the complexity of the products as well as the type of client they are dealing with, it requires far more technical and soft skills expertise compared to a normal fresh graduate executive that make easily $3k+. No way anyone's gona stay as a private banker up to 5 years for <3k and 2 months bonus.

Are you sure you not confusing private banker with salesman (aka consumer banker / wealth banker)?


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