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Unregistered 15-06-2021 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174227)
Having worked at both Accenture and JPM, I strongly suggest your go for banking tech unless the bank who offered you is working with legacy tech

Depends on where you work in Accenture. Were you in the strategy or management consulting practices?

If you are in Accenture tech, then of course JPM is better.

Unregistered 15-06-2021 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174198)
Very insightful. Really dont get what’s with all the ‘glamour’ in consulting. Personally, as long as I love my job and it enables me to live comfortably without sacrificing too much WLB, I’m happy.

Heard of too many stories of how these high-flying jobs in finance/strat consulting led to a deterioration of mental/physical health as well as personal relationships. Not my cup of tea, but too each it’s own.

I dont think there is any glamour in consulting. Is there? That perception is probably formed by people not in consulting. Once you get into it, you will realize most of the time your job is really quite terrible and stressful. Nothing glamourous.

Unregistered 15-06-2021 04:09 PM

Interesting strategy work is no longer found in consulting. Think about it. Big players like MBB advise a lot of F500 companies. Do you honestly reckon that these companies would be comfortable sharing everything about their competitive strategies? There’s actually nothing stopping these consultancies from using this information to help a rival (which is actually one of the selling points of consulting - but it is dying as mentioned above). Projects these days are mostly to do with tech transformation (MBB are now focusing less on their strategy business and are instead growing their digital ones).

Unregistered 16-06-2021 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174242)
Interesting strategy work is no longer found in consulting. Think about it. Big players like MBB advise a lot of F500 companies. Do you honestly reckon that these companies would be comfortable sharing everything about their competitive strategies? There’s actually nothing stopping these consultancies from using this information to help a rival (which is actually one of the selling points of consulting - but it is dying as mentioned above). Projects these days are mostly to do with tech transformation (MBB are now focusing less on their strategy business and are instead growing their digital ones).

My opinion:

MBB > Tier 2 strat house (OW S& ATK LEK RB - probably in that order from APAC perspective) > Banking tech > All other consulting (Big 4, boutiques)

1. In MBB/Tier 2, you will probably do a ~60/40 mix of strategy:transformation engagements (give or take 10% based on firm, industry, and region). Unless you want to delve deep into technology, you're still going to be more marketable to general commercial positions in 3-5 years time.

2. Yes, corporations are increasingly sophisticated and they have internal strategy / consulting units to do some of the work. However, management / c-suites somehow still leverage consultants for select opportunities, and many will want the rubber stamp from consulting firms.

3. On practical terms, as a full-time employee, you're probably better off in a tier 1/2 strategy house in terms of remuneration and exit options in the short to medium term. Banks are not going to pay in-house tech talent >10K in 3 years post-undergrad, which is what the tier1/2 consulting firms pay. You can then decide to leave after that, get a 10-20% pay bump in industry and work your way up from mid-mgr level.

Unregistered 16-06-2021 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174361)
My opinion:

MBB > Tier 2 strat house (OW S& ATK LEK RB - probably in that order from APAC perspective) > Banking tech > All other consulting (Big 4, boutiques)

1. In MBB/Tier 2, you will probably do a ~60/40 mix of strategy:transformation engagements (give or take 10% based on firm, industry, and region). Unless you want to delve deep into technology, you're still going to be more marketable to general commercial positions in 3-5 years time.

2. Yes, corporations are increasingly sophisticated and they have internal strategy / consulting units to do some of the work. However, management / c-suites somehow still leverage consultants for select opportunities, and many will want the rubber stamp from consulting firms.

3. On practical terms, as a full-time employee, you're probably better off in a tier 1/2 strategy house in terms of remuneration and exit options in the short to medium term. Banks are not going to pay in-house tech talent >10K in 3 years post-undergrad, which is what the tier1/2 consulting firms pay. You can then decide to leave after that, get a 10-20% pay bump in industry and work your way up from mid-mgr level.

where does Accenture stand?

Unregistered 16-06-2021 02:00 PM

Don’t think OP’s offer is from a tier 2 (eg. OW, Kearney). Not sure if it’s worth sacrificing the WLB for it.

Unregistered 16-06-2021 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174364)
where does Accenture stand?

His post is about strategy consulting firms. Accenture is known for technology consulting/implementation services. Accenture has a strategy division but the brand name isnt really recognized on par with tier1 or 2 strategy firms yet.

In terms of tech consulting and implementation, think of firms which are doing the same as Accenture. Are they close to the scale (eg. Global reach, global revenue, no. Of employees) that Accenture has?

megalomaniac 17-06-2021 02:46 PM

Really appreciate the inputs everyone! I've decided to go into banking tech as I'll be working on cloud infrastructure - hopefully avoiding having to deal with legacy systems. Like many have pointed out, I probably don't want to contend with the poor WLB associated with the higher pay, plus I think there's value in gaining more technical experience earlier in my career.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174364)
where does Accenture stand?

It's a tough one.

From a career standpoint, as a junior, unless you're in the strategy consulting team (with a differentiated pay scale compared to their mgmt consulting arm), you're probably going to be on the same trajectory as a banking tech guy. On average 3 years to 6k, 6 years to 9k monthly gross pay. I understand from an external market perspective, they did a recent consolidation between the 2 units - strategy and mgmt consulting - but apparently their compensation structures are still differentiated.

However, as a partner / MD in ACN's case, it's a good deal because they deal in mega transformation projects. Many juniors want to be in sexy strategy short term 3-month projects, and that's fine because its interesting and market pays relatively well. But as you move up in seniority, partners want more stable revenues with less BD effort and hence prefer to sell large scale long-term transformation projects.

From a market recognition standpoint, ACN's main strength is in digital / tech, not in Strategy. If you want to rank it based on pay, ACN strategy pays 10-20% less than OW / ATK at junior levels, and similar to RB. Any other unit in ACN pays significantly less than all the tier-2s. Prestige ranking is subjective, and very dependent on region, so probably won't lay it all out here.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174506)
It's a tough one.

From a career standpoint, as a junior, unless you're in the strategy consulting team (with a differentiated pay scale compared to their mgmt consulting arm), you're probably going to be on the same trajectory as a banking tech guy. On average 3 years to 6k, 6 years to 9k monthly gross pay. I understand from an external market perspective, they did a recent consolidation between the 2 units - strategy and mgmt consulting - but apparently their compensation structures are still differentiated.

However, as a partner / MD in ACN's case, it's a good deal because they deal in mega transformation projects. Many juniors want to be in sexy strategy short term 3-month projects, and that's fine because its interesting and market pays relatively well. But as you move up in seniority, partners want more stable revenues with less BD effort and hence prefer to sell large scale long-term transformation projects.

From a market recognition standpoint, ACN's main strength is in digital / tech, not in Strategy. If you want to rank it based on pay, ACN strategy pays 10-20% less than OW / ATK at junior levels, and similar to RB. Any other unit in ACN pays significantly less than all the tier-2s. Prestige ranking is subjective, and very dependent on region, so probably won't lay it all out here.

Nope. ACN S&C don’t pay 10-20% less than Tier 2. Firms like Kearney & OW pay from 6-7.5k ish and when they merged to 2 units, the starting pay for analyst is at arnd 4.8k base.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174506)
It's a tough one.

From a career standpoint, as a junior, unless you're in the strategy consulting team (with a differentiated pay scale compared to their mgmt consulting arm), you're probably going to be on the same trajectory as a banking tech guy. On average 3 years to 6k, 6 years to 9k monthly gross pay. I understand from an external market perspective, they did a recent consolidation between the 2 units - strategy and mgmt consulting - but apparently their compensation structures are still differentiated.

However, as a partner / MD in ACN's case, it's a good deal because they deal in mega transformation projects. Many juniors want to be in sexy strategy short term 3-month projects, and that's fine because its interesting and market pays relatively well. But as you move up in seniority, partners want more stable revenues with less BD effort and hence prefer to sell large scale long-term transformation projects.

From a market recognition standpoint, ACN's main strength is in digital / tech, not in Strategy. If you want to rank it based on pay, ACN strategy pays 10-20% less than OW / ATK at junior levels, and similar to RB. Any other unit in ACN pays significantly less than all the tier-2s. Prestige ranking is subjective, and very dependent on region, so probably won't lay it all out here.

Also have to note that some banking tech graduate programmes are contract-based, so they are not necessarily the best places to start at, and conversion is not guaranteed.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174507)
Nope. ACN S&C don’t pay 10-20% less than Tier 2. Firms like Kearney & OW pay from 6-7.5k ish and when they merged to 2 units, the starting pay for analyst is at arnd 4.8k base.

Strategy Analyst 3 years ago started at 5.6k. Not sure how it is now after the merger. From what I understand from 2nd/3rd level connections, salaries are still differentiated. The 2 units are merged, but there are salary differences based on the sub-unit you are in.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174507)
Nope. ACN S&C don’t pay 10-20% less than Tier 2. Firms like Kearney & OW pay from 6-7.5k ish and when they merged to 2 units, the starting pay for analyst is at arnd 4.8k base.

you mean starting salaries for Kearney & OW is 4.8k now?

Unregistered 17-06-2021 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174511)
you mean starting salaries for Kearney & OW is 4.8k now?

Nope. I meant the merged S & C unit in ACN.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 06:37 PM

Well u guys will find it hard to believe. But ACN fresh grad strategy analysts start off with 6.5k now.
Next rank in acn strategy is now near 9k.

After the 'merger', management consulting people did not get an increase.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174521)
Well u guys will find it hard to believe. But ACN fresh grad strategy analysts start off with 6.5k now.
Next rank in acn strategy is now near 9k.

After the 'merger', management consulting people did not get an increase.

False. S&C merged and everyone is now on the same pay scale. Figures is 4.8k for fresh analyst (accurate on the date of the merger).

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174522)
False. S&C merged and everyone is now on the same pay scale. Figures is 4.8k for fresh analyst (accurate on the date of the merger).

Nah its not. Besides, tech analysts are already getting 4.9k now

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174534)
Nah its not. Besides, tech analysts are already getting 4.9k now

Yes it is LOL. I’m talking about base excluding allowance. Besides, tech analysts only have their pay revised a few months back to 4.5k.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174535)
Yes it is LOL. I’m talking about base excluding allowance. Besides, tech analysts only have their pay revised a few months back to 4.5k.

U are in management consulting i assume? Have you asked anyone from strategy?

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174536)
U are in management consulting i assume? Have you asked anyone from strategy?

My goodness. There is literally no differentiation between consulting and strategy at ACN now. What do you think the rationale was behind combining S and MC to be S&C (as it is known now)?

Started in S&C in May last year (4.8k base).

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174537)
My goodness. There is literally no differentiation between consulting and strategy at ACN now. What do you think the rationale was behind combining S and MC to be S&C (as it is known now)?

Started in S&C in May last year (4.8k base).

Titles still different. Pay still different.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174538)
Titles still different. Pay still different.

If you say so I guess. LOL

Unregistered 17-06-2021 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174539)
If you say so I guess. LOL

Dont need to act all smart about it. Strategy people would never say they joined acn s&c. They would say strategy. Only mgmt consulting people want to associate themselves with s in s&c.

Strategy analysts started off with above 5k even before the merger. Are you saying they had their pay dropped down to your mgmt consulting level? Does it makes sense? I would expect more thought from someone in consulting. I guess that is why you arent in the s in s&c.

Unregistered 17-06-2021 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174541)
Dont need to act all smart about it. Strategy people would never say they joined acn s&c. They would say strategy. Only mgmt consulting people want to associate themselves with s in s&c.

Strategy analysts started off with above 5k even before the merger. Are you saying they had their pay dropped down to your mgmt consulting level? Does it makes sense? I would expect more thought from someone in consulting. I guess that is why you arent in the s in s&c.

Ok. If you say so. LOL

Unregistered 17-06-2021 08:59 PM

It's just the branding i guess. If you are this capable, why not join the big tech instead , even those e-commerce are also giving 5-6k + rsu min for fresh grad.

Why bother with sweatshops.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174545)
It's just the branding i guess. If you are this capable, why not join the big tech instead , even those e-commerce are also giving 5-6k + rsu min for fresh grad.

Why bother with sweatshops.

Unless you're in devops / software stuff, I don't think big tech gross salaries and trajectory for "business employees" is as high as strategy houses. Granted, WLB and benefits are probably better there, but definitely not >150K total compensation in ~3 years (like in OW / ATK).

To me, big tech is a highly overrated job. But just my opinion :) anyway OP has decided to go banking tech route so good luck to him. Ciao.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174569)
Unless you're in devops / software stuff, I don't think big tech gross salaries and trajectory for "business employees" is as high as strategy houses. Granted, WLB and benefits are probably better there, but definitely not >150K total compensation in ~3 years (like in OW / ATK).

To me, big tech is a highly overrated job. But just my opinion :) anyway OP has decided to go banking tech route so good luck to him. Ciao.

Why is big tech highly overrated? Data is the new oil. AI will inform decision making. All these strategy shops peddling snake oil advice won't survive the next 2 decades.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174589)
Why is big tech highly overrated? Data is the new oil. AI will inform decision making. All these strategy shops peddling snake oil advice won't survive the next 2 decades.

Maybe he meant overrated to non-tech employees. Because non-tech employees dont get paid highly there anyway.

Big tech isnt overrated. They pay well for tech employees who are worth their salt-particularly those who are constantly seeking to upskill themselves in new tools, people who arent afraid to learn well into their 40s, 50s.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 09:16 PM

Yea. Wasn't clear - overrated to non-tech employees. Pay is really just average if you aren't in tech side of things. Yes, data is the new oil - AI ML predictive data analytics big data data science bla bla bla all the buzzwords. Ultimately you just have to find the right industry / position to make good money comfortably, be it in big tech or not.

Strategy consulting will probably survive. Snake oil or not, C-suites dig it. Almost (if not all) the mergers / carve outs u see on Financial Times probably has a consulting team on it. However, the landscape, where they play, and margins may change.

Anyway, salary wise, all of the above are mediocre when compared to the PE dudes who earn through carry interest.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174594)
Maybe he meant overrated to non-tech employees. Because non-tech employees dont get paid highly there anyway.

Big tech isnt overrated. They pay well for tech employees who are worth their salt-particularly those who are constantly seeking to upskill themselves in new tools, people who arent afraid to learn well into their 40s, 50s.


Haha i see alot of these non-tech people joining big tech company and they automatically become some "techies". Throw big words like AI/ML/Data Analytics when they can't even write proper formula in excel.

Then the news also promoting these role (women in tech or tech switch whatever) such that the entry of barrier into tech industry become a joke. Like a chinese culture grad can suddenly become data analyst lol?! But then data analyst is not considered tech role anyway. They just churn data and do dashboarding.

Anyway, the top pay in tech is always the engineering side but due to some hype other company slow to adapt to tech keep on hiring useless Business Analyst, Data analyst, UI UX designer and inflating their salary. When i say useless, i mean they hire more than required. such that they are many of these freeloading tech job.

Unregistered 18-06-2021 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174696)

Strategy consulting will probably survive. Snake oil or not, C-suites dig it. Almost (if not all) the mergers / carve outs u see on Financial Times probably has a consulting team on it. However, the landscape, where they play, and margins may change.

Lame. Every M&A RTO buyout restructure etc has auditors lawyers and investment bankers on it too. Fact of the matter is that out of all the professional services, consulting brings the least actual value to anything.

Unregistered 19-06-2021 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174717)
Lame. Every M&A RTO buyout restructure etc has auditors lawyers and investment bankers on it too. Fact of the matter is that out of all the professional services, consulting brings the least actual value to anything.

But who is brought in to recommend the m&a first?

Unregistered 19-06-2021 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174717)
Lame. Every M&A RTO buyout restructure etc has auditors lawyers and investment bankers on it too. Fact of the matter is that out of all the professional services, consulting brings the least actual value to anything.

Value is subjective. Seems like management feels differently from you to be paying consultants then. Maybe they aren't as operationally savvy as you though :)

Unregistered 19-06-2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174756)
Value is subjective. Seems like management feels differently from you to be paying consultants then. Maybe they aren't as operationally savvy as you though :)

Hahaha 'value is subjective" is the biggest crock of bull ive heard and is very much on brand with consulting in general.

In the same way missionaries go about telling people that they can't see, hear or feel god, but trust us, he exists!

Unregistered 19-06-2021 01:27 PM

Bottom line, if you are a fresh grad and have offers from MBB/Tier 2 (OW, Kearney, S&). you take it 99% of the time. Regardless of your major (simply because there is very little jobs out there offering the same pay/branding/exit opportunities at the start of your career).

Anything other than that becomes subjective. E.g. your acn/big 4/mid-tier strat firms.

Unregistered 19-06-2021 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174769)
Hahaha 'value is subjective" is the biggest crock of bull ive heard and is very much on brand with consulting in general.

In the same way missionaries go about telling people that they can't see, hear or feel god, but trust us, he exists!

And there you go - thanks for this. Look at how powerful religious organisations are in today's world.

If selling a "crock of bull" enables me to be successful to such an extent, just like these religious organisations, i'm down for it.

Value is subjective, in the sense that you don't seem to appreciate the industry while CEOs around the world do. Like I said, maybe you are just more operationally savvy and gifted than these corporate leaders who don't know what they are doing.

Unregistered 20-06-2021 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megalomaniac (Post 174492)
Really appreciate the inputs everyone! I've decided to go into banking tech as I'll be working on cloud infrastructure - hopefully avoiding having to deal with legacy systems. Like many have pointed out, I probably don't want to contend with the poor WLB associated with the higher pay, plus I think there's value in gaining more technical experience earlier in my career.

DBS? 10 char

Unregistered 21-06-2021 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174910)
DBS? 10 char

OP better go fix the double charging issue. Sibei dulan. Asia's best bank my foot.


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