No. YoU wOrK iN mAcDoNaLdS.

https://imgur.com/0dwmCr4

Think you might find this interesting:
s://.facebook.com/nuswhispers/posts/4765663476837409

Read the post and the comment made by prof ben, who is a professor in NUS. Essentially, he believes that despite the abundance of online learning material available, it takes an incredible amount of hardwork and aptitude to actually make it in CS.

Ignore prof ben, he's a prof for a reason. If he goes out and work, he cannot make it. He can only teach, and at best teach basic stuff.

Listening advice from him is like listening advice from a monkey. Monkey may give better advice

Yeah a nobody. If got quality will be teaching at MIT no 1 uni and not at NUS number dunno what.
So amongst the Prof in comp science, really a nobody.

Somemore he teaching the basic CS mods, so what do you expect

That may be true but I'm still much more inclined to believe the words of a professor who has students in actual top companies, over some random guy on the internet with no credentials

I see he no longer wirh NUS as of Jan 2021.
So literally a nobody

The student who managed to land roles in top companies is attributable to their OWN efforts over the 4 years studying there, not because of one useless prof who spends his day giving shitty advice in NUS whipsers.

Yeah top student. Big deal.

Still don't earn more than our own secret lab founders.
Or salted egg fish skin brothers.

Grade doesn't earn you good money.
Being successful in business does.

Richest Singaporean is some hot pot right?
Not some comp science slave who is bound to work like slave.

Yeah top students got brains to ace exam only.
But no brain to create a tech product that has value.

Example like discord is just a very simple concept. They build it. Make it popular.
Now Microsoft want to buy it. Billions.

The founder will become millionaires.

That's the tech dream. But non of Singaporean top talent has this skill.
Just slave for company that's all

Not sure why you are going on and on about entrepreneurship and "comp science slaves" when my original response is just to provide an alternative viewpoint on whether someone without CS background can have a successful career in CS.

No. Don't pick programming.
It's a slave job.
Low pay.
You can't keep doing it.
Your brain will slow down the older you get.

Management on the other hand you get better the older you get.
So go into project management.

Legit advice?

It is true if you work on traditional business with old tech. If you go for big tech or unicorns, technical skills are way more appreciated than merely PM. You can hire 5 year old to be a PM, and it is not hard to find one. But to find someone who can build your product ground up, with good scalability and reliability is way more valuable for a product company. Advice from boomers lol.

Bro it is damn hard to be a real Fang solid technical skills.
But damn easy to be consultant, use mouth Nia.

What kind of technical skills a ceo has¿
None.


The best jobs in Singapore are always real estate agents, insurance agents, relationship managers.
Basically u sell things.and get commissions
Little education needed

I m not saying technical skills not important
But I’m saying society don’t value Technical skills
In terms of pay per unit effort, programming is not worth it.

So many real estate/insurance/ agents and RMs, those you see are really those who made it/survived through these cut-throat industries.

'Middleman' jobs like you mentioned above will get disruption heavily by technology. As millennials are going to replace older generations, people will get more familiar with the technology. You might think it will take decades, but it is closer than you think. China is a good example of how payments and insurance businesses are getting disrupted in less than 10 years. Real Estate Agents will get disrupted as well.

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Just be CEO la.
Like Genting Singapore chairman pay doubled to 21.25 million in a year where tourism stopped and no business. Same thing as those bank ceo. Bank lose money etc. Retrenchment but the ceo pay in the millions.

See a ceo tekan a ceo.
Ceo is the most disgusting job.
You'll say they are the reason why rhe company grow and jobs are created.

******** you seen on this covid. Those hotel staff etc retrenched.
But ceo pay can double to 21.25 million.

Cut staff who earning like 2.5k so that the company can give 21 million to a ****ing chairman.

but have you considered the possibilities of these jobs being automated in the future? if cars can drive themselves, how unlikely is it for insurances and real estates to sell themselves? and when that happens, even you have the glibbest of tongues, there won't be an opportunity for you to pitch.

this!!! in a single decade, horses became obsolete because cars were introduced to the road. if you're still contented with a job that requires little education, understand your job is one of the first to be replaced with technology.

To OP on whether you should pick up programming.
I think the qn is do you want to be a software engineer? Do you like the idea of being an engineer where you solve problems with the tools you have (in this case is software).
When you start learning programming it can be all fun and games. But bear in mind that the more complex things can be abit dry and mundane. Also another key qn to ask yourself is do you like learning in your free time. Many engineers have a strong passion for this (of course not everyone), and enjoy spending their nights learning new technical things that interest them.

I guess if you were previously in non-technical role, the key things is software engineering is an entirely 'technical' role which can be a big change. There is no like fluffing your way through.

That's why someone earlier said...
Programmer are the modern age slave. Construction worker.
Garbage collector...

You can go into food industry or health care.
If anything. This two industry will always be there.
Finance also.. But finance can retrench etc.

Entertainment industry very risky. Tourism hotel all those dream job became nightmare...

Yep.
Food, delivery, health care, finance. And maybe tech also haha. Tech got richer during covid..
But definitely not programmer.

Cause programmer is bangla.

If you are working with MNC that has little exposure to modern tech, I agree the pay is peanuts. But I have seen many that draw 180k+ in 5 years, and 250k+ in 8 years. Talking about big tech here. For unicorns, the number is around 140k in 5 years and 180k in 8 years. I even saw job post for tech new grad from GS with starting salary of 7.5k.

Link below:

s://.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/job/banking-finance/2021-full-time-campus-analyst-%E2%80%93-engineering-goldman-sachs-d3f6787d15e998f523f2ca6784c5a880


Big tech even pays higher if you consider the stocks, around 120k of compensation package for fresh grad.

Sadly, the outdated guys misinformed others, but I dont see the trend to slow down. Singapore is at the early stage and salary for engineers will start to pick up with the other region like Japan, London, and US.

Sorry I went for byte dance interview they asking for a very niche skillswt which I don't have. And the job offer is only 4.5k for 5 years exp.

Not what 7.5k nonsense.

Use brain please. Bytedance is China company. So pay China salary.
Google Facebook etc is USA company. So they pay usd salary.

Which by conversion rate is already high. But within USA its normal...
E.g software developer in USA can hit 100k above annum. Not need in Google etc.

Singapore software developer can't even hit 60k per annum. Sgd. People is 100k per annum usd.
So ofc. Google Facebook etc will pay you higher.. Cause they are paying unless compared to their own USA programmer...

7.5k is only 90k sgd. So they already underpaid you compared to if they were to hire an American programmer.

Actly bytedance pay for software engineer in singapore is quite high. The fresh grads are getting arnd 100k/annum packages. Not sure what role you applied for but are you sure is software engineering, and not like testing or something?

Singaporean looks down on PRC.
But willing to work for PRC company.
In my opinion all those PRC in Singapore should try for the job and priorities given to them..

Long story short, how many people can actually make it to Bulge Brackets/Unicorns/Big Tech fresh from uni?

Just a handful.

Hmm... mostly because of the lucrative salary and the fact that the field is hard to automate. Which means 20 years down the road I won't be out of a job. Yknw? Future proofing myself.

Joker. Anyone who have worked in tech world will tell you after 3 years that they are so sick and tired and burnout from programming. And never learning enough. Always foegrttknf
Always behind. And another new skills to pick up....

Then you'll end up be just those analyst or consultant or project manager.

are you speaking from experience?

My experience tells me burn out happen when the project is in death march or 1 year when bonus is given out, whichever earlier.

And when the god like fresh grad who thinks programming is all brains.
And fail to realise that there is a human factor to it, a time factor, a team factor, a technical debt factor, and money factor....

And burn out also happen when they realised even if company double their pay, they can't produce twice the amount of work even if they want to.

Nothing comes out of their brain.
Mental block. A wall.

It's okie we will get the new hires to refactor everything

You are coming from old school, hence wont be surprise to see backward mentality like this. First of all, you need to have clear definition of what is output. Output is not about the amount of code, but it is the impact.

In Singapore itself, you can see the example of how great products can generate much more output than lousy one. Take the example of trading app, there are plenty homegrown trading app out there like phillips, ocbc securities, utrade etc, they have great support in Singapore but not many is using it. If Robinhood is coming to Singapore, I bet many would opt to use Robinhood even they dont have big office here. Tiger and Interactive Broker is actually much larger than local trading platform because they have much better product.

This is how technology works. Winners take most of the pie (80% to 95%). Another example is alipay. 80% of the China transaction is coming to alipay. If there is no intervention from government, they are bound to be the largest bank in the world.

Government is giving licences to operate digital banks last year. I wouldnt be surprise if some of the traditional banks are getting replaced (UOB might be a good target). You will see in the next 10 years. Things will be obvious once it becomes reality.

I'm 43 this year. I started out with matlab, then C, then R, then Python. I'm still coding and doing a decently paid job with good work/life balance.

If you have interests in doing something, it's never too late. And tech job is particularly well suited for people not good at talk talk, and is in high demand as long as you can prove your skill, which is actually simple - tech interview is the most difficult to fake.

Haha refactor until become failed plastic surgery :P
still working but inside unmaintainable :P

sure or not? 7.5k is like the lowest that I have seen my peers getting. anything lesser than that is unheard of.

I actually think that programming is one of the best choices regardless the covid-19 pandemic. I mean, we already live in a digitalized world, and programming is one of the most important things to know and learn actually. In case you are going to be a great specialist in this domain, you might actually earn a hell a lot of money, and besides all that, it is a good career choice for both short and long term. After all, if you are tired of working in this domain, you can set up your own web app development company, and give some younger guys the opportunity to develop themselves and your company as well.

Programming was created by introverts