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Unregistered 04-08-2021 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179256)
Exactly. Most of the posts are directed at the”real IB/GWM UBS employees”, telling them to stop whining and inform the inflated SGUT directly. Please show us the “posts that defended the SGUT behaviour”

Whoever you are, stfu and stop replying to your own posts la. Noisy bodoh

Unregistered 04-08-2021 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179257)
Whoever you are, stfu and stop replying to your own posts la. Noisy bodoh

Lost the argument and ask ppl to stfu? Show us evidence of posts defending plss. We are not texting to your personal phone leh, just gtfo of here lah instead of asking people to stfu. Simple logic tolol

Unregistered 04-08-2021 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179256)
Exactly. Most of the posts are directed at the”real IB/GWM UBS employees”, telling them to stop whining and inform the inflated SGUT directly. Please show us the “posts that defended the SGUT behaviour”

I thought I read some pretty defensive responses a few threads back. But don’t ask me cite or dig leh this one not uni thesis. Doesn’t change the fact that they are probably sitting on their IB paycheques mocking at your profiles over smoke breaks. The circle itself is elitist and you are not one of them.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179259)
I thought I read some pretty defensive responses a few threads back. But don’t ask me cite or dig leh this one not uni thesis. Doesn’t change the fact that they are probably sitting on their IB paycheques mocking at your profiles over smoke breaks. The circle itself is elitist and you are not one of them.

You thought, I think, who confirm? Trying to smoke your way through? Easy posts also cannot read, I cannot expect you to write thesis. How to even believe you are elite…

Unregistered 04-08-2021 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179260)
You thought, I think, who confirm? Trying to smoke your way through? Easy posts also cannot read, I cannot expect you to write thesis. How to even believe you are elite…


Dudeee, didn’t this whole discussion blow up because someone called out the trainees for inflating their titles? Also, I never say I elite wor. I also never say I write uni thesis wor. I only say this one not uni thesis lmao.

Good grief you really don’t sound bright at all but I guess as long as you’re happy to continue serving as cheap entertainment for the rest what more can I say right…

Unregistered 04-08-2021 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179259)
I thought I read some pretty defensive responses a few threads back. But don’t ask me cite or dig leh this one not uni thesis. Doesn’t change the fact that they are probably sitting on their IB paycheques mocking at your profiles over smoke breaks. The circle itself is elitist and you are not one of them.

lolol this fella present argument but lazy to back his claim fckin retard

Unregistered 04-08-2021 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179261)
Dudeee, didn’t this whole discussion blow up because someone called out the trainees for inflating their titles? Also, I never say I elite wor. I also never say I write uni thesis wor. I only say this one not uni thesis lmao.

Good grief you really don’t sound bright at all but I guess as long as you’re happy to continue serving as cheap entertainment for the rest what more can I say right…

No? People were calling the IB/GWM to privately inform the SGUT directly instead of whining here like a b!tch. Obviously calling you an elite and writing thesis are sarcasm dude. Clearly u lack basic comprehension skills

Unregistered 04-08-2021 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179262)
lolol this fella present argument but lazy to back his claim fckin retard

lolol this retard trainee alr still want step one smart self-reply. ubs ah ubs, cui sial

Unregistered 04-08-2021 06:19 PM

Guys whats the big hooah abt? Everybody knows the chaps in this program cmi for FT jobs, there’s no debate on that. Yes some of them inflate their titles, mayb cuz they have to convince themselves and fulfil their ego, just leave them be lah. Laugh at them in your own circle k liao

Unregistered 04-08-2021 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179264)
lolol this retard trainee alr still want step one smart self-reply. ubs ah ubs, cui sial

Aaannnddddd that's your counter argument. hahahaha making a fool out of yourself

Unregistered 04-08-2021 08:06 PM

Which argument?? The post from the guy this morning of which you decided to take the easy way out??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179222)
1. Again, so how many have been in the program, how many converted, and how many left before the program ends? I’m not uptight about BB. You’re the one who is uptight when I mentioned UBS is a Low-tier BB (if it is even considered a BB at this point). Btw, have you looked up the meaning of BB?

2. Again, so what have you learned? Enough to earn more than $2500? And what do you do exactly? The same things as real IBs and WMs earning upwards of 6k after grad? Yup, sit down.

3. Why are you so upset? Regardless, I’ll answer your question. Yes - of course I’ll hire a BB FO over someone who is only good enough for a traineeship (and has close to zero eq acting as like they are FO bankers lol).

4. So are you telling me that those posts quoted by others a few days back aren’t true? That subconsciously the people in UBS aren’t approving of the program, they don’t think highly of these trainees and that the opportunities and conversion rate are close to nothing?

5. Calm down, you are probably part of the shameless bunch, but is there really a need to all caps? First of all, I’m not the poster(s) who outed the linkedin profiles earlier. Secondly, I don’t have to be a UBS employee to know what they do. From word of mouth (have a few friends in the trading desks @ 9 Penang Road) and reading posts by your alumni here is good enough. Do you seriously think they are running deals and talking to clients? Please.

Btw, why are you dodging questions in my previous post and instead opting to present moot arguments? If people aren’t convinced of the waning reputation of UBS and its traineeship program, I’m sure they are now judging by what I can only assume are your senseless “defenses”. “Fcking man mode”, “PS angry”. If you are unaware, MD wouldn’t supplement high-income earners remuneration unless they are KAH. In other words, if you are indeed a FO banker earning big bucks, it’s likely that you wouldn’t get called back if you are not a KAH.

Or are you referring to another argument??

Chill la. You think everyone so free like you meh. People only click in to scorn at how loserish some of y’all are. Drop the lame ass titles and act like who you really are. Aka trainees. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Resonate with the above poster that cringey ppl like you are actually getting laughed at hard behind your backs.

P.S. Am the guy who shared a few of your batchmates’ names a few days back ;)

Unregistered 04-08-2021 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179247)
You don’t have to work in UBS or any bank to find people who inflate their LinkedIn credentials distasteful. Same goes for folks who claim that they graduated from University of (insert some UK/Aus place) without indicating that it was under an external, distance-learning programme. Technically speaking not wrong, just distasteful. Trust me, people don’t have to be in the industry to tell. And they don’t owe it to you to identify themselves before they can laugh at you. They just do it.

Before you ask, no I don’t work for UBS. I don’t even work in AnY BAnk. Just wanted to put it out here because I’m experiencing some 2nd hand embarrassment here reading through some of the posts defending such behaviour in this thread.

Think about how easy it is to land a traineeship then perhaps you can understand why they have to stoop so low as to inflate their titles. Let’s just laugh at how cringe some of them are will do.

2.5k Investment Bankers & Wealth Managers from UBS SUPER 2020/2021. Upz la.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:04 PM

real talk - stumbled upon this thread and went linkedin to kaypoh. don't see many ppl using "UBS SUPER TRAINEE" in their titles. How do ppl within the finance circle and outside of ubs able to differentiate between those in SUPER and the rest?

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179277)
real talk - stumbled upon this thread and went linkedin to kaypoh. don't see many ppl using "UBS SUPER TRAINEE" in their titles. How do ppl within the finance circle and outside of ubs able to differentiate between those in SUPER and the rest?

If they're from local private unis, they're SUPER trainees. Big 3 unis most likely non-SUPER, though it's possible to see people with poor backgrounds (non-banking internships) and big 3 education in SUPER programs (but few and far between, don't think they'll settle for a 2.5k job when their batchmates are making 4k+ on average).

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179278)
If they're from local private unis, they're SUPER trainees. Big 3 unis most likely non-SUPER, though it's possible to see people with poor backgrounds (non-banking internships) and big 3 education in SUPER programs (but few and far between, don't think they'll settle for a 2.5k job when their batchmates are making 4k+ on average).

what i did noticed is that there appears to be a 2 groups, one sticking to "Graduate Trainee" and the other just something along the lines of " GWM- Trainee". The latter often have less than 1 yr under their belt.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179278)
If they're from local private unis, they're SUPER trainees. Big 3 unis most likely non-SUPER, though it's possible to see people with poor backgrounds (non-banking internships) and big 3 education in SUPER programs (but few and far between, don't think they'll settle for a 2.5k job when their batchmates are making 4k+ on average).

You’d be surprised. The program actually has quite a number of local graduates.
Aiya, not everyone can earn 4k+ after grad la. They omit trainee from their title cus they ps. Put IB and WM more satki, although it’s misleading.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179281)
You’d be surprised. The program actually has quite a number of local graduates.
Aiya, not everyone can earn 4k+ after grad la. They omit trainee from their title cus they ps. Put IB and WM more satki, although it’s misleading.

Do these local grads have proper banking internships (discounting those with BO backgrounds)? It's understandable if local uni grads go there if they want to break into the finance industry without prior related experience. But given the cut-throat nature in local unis and especially so for business schools (constant comparison of internships between peers throughout the 3 or 4 years), I find it quite hard to believe that there is an actual sizable amount of local graduates in the SUPER program. I've been through the system and I know how it is. Anyone who's been through the same will tell you similar stories.

I personally don't know anyone with decent backgrounds and from local unis doing SUPER program.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179282)
Do these local grads have proper banking internships (discounting those with BO backgrounds)? It's understandable if local uni grads go there if they want to break into the finance industry without prior related experience. But given the cut-throat nature in local unis and especially so for business schools (constant comparison of internships between peers throughout the 3 or 4 years), I find it quite hard to believe that there is an actual sizable amount of local graduates in the SUPER program. I've been through the system and I know how it is. Anyone who's been through the same will tell you similar stories.

I personally don't know anyone with decent backgrounds and from local unis doing SUPER program.

Most of them arent those with 3-4 internships. Some are from non-biz degrees too. Anyway BO/MO graduate program already pays 4k+, makes no sense for them to join this program given that there’s little to almost zero chance of moving to the front office.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179282)
Do these local grads have proper banking internships (discounting those with BO backgrounds)? It's understandable if local uni grads go there if they want to break into the finance industry without prior related experience. But given the cut-throat nature in local unis and especially so for business schools (constant comparison of internships between peers throughout the 3 or 4 years), I find it quite hard to believe that there is an actual sizable amount of local graduates in the SUPER program. I've been through the system and I know how it is. Anyone who's been through the same will tell you similar stories.

I personally don't know anyone with decent backgrounds and from local unis doing SUPER program.

Though I'l add on that I've seen maybe 2 or 3 with local uni profiles on Linkedin.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179283)
Most of them arent those with 3-4 internships. Some are from non-biz degrees too. Anyway BO/MO graduate program already pays 4k+, makes no sense for them to join this program given that there’s little to almost zero chance of moving to the front office.

Makes sense. Personally I don't have a problem with SUPER trainees but they shouldn't oversell their roles and responsibilities on social media. In the end, it's just going to bite them when they do leave for another job. Finance background checks are very thorough, they're designed to trip applicants up and if they're not the real mccoy, then it's probably good riddance.

Unregistered 04-08-2021 11:21 PM

Can we stop acting like 2.5k vs 10k is a big diff? Even if you earn 300k a year you are still gonna take 5 years without eating or paying taxes to buy a decent sized condo for your family. Unless you are cool with a studio apartment for your wife and kids. Oh yeah and don’t for get it excludes your Maserati. Direct your anger at inflationary pressures and full fledged careless monetary policies please.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179298)
Can we stop acting like 2.5k vs 10k is a big diff? Even if you earn 300k a year you are still gonna take 5 years without eating or paying taxes to buy a decent sized condo for your family. Unless you are cool with a studio apartment for your wife and kids. Oh yeah and don’t for get it excludes your Maserati. Direct your anger at inflationary pressures and full fledged careless monetary policies please.

but with 10k they can get a bigger loan quantum for their mortgage application.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179298)
Can we stop acting like 2.5k vs 10k is a big diff? Even if you earn 300k a year you are still gonna take 5 years without eating or paying taxes to buy a decent sized condo for your family. Unless you are cool with a studio apartment for your wife and kids. Oh yeah and don’t for get it excludes your Maserati. Direct your anger at inflationary pressures and full fledged careless monetary policies please.

That’s not what’s been talked about here. Rather, it’s about desperate trainees over-inflating their titles. Not a FO banker, but seems really distasteful to mislead people by associating yourself with IB/GM (arguably associated with the elite of the elites) and mislead others on purpose. Not to forget, there’s a big big difference between a trainee and a IB Analyst (not a marginal one).

Unregistered 05-08-2021 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179298)
Can we stop acting like 2.5k vs 10k is a big diff? Even if you earn 300k a year you are still gonna take 5 years without eating or paying taxes to buy a decent sized condo for your family. Unless you are cool with a studio apartment for your wife and kids. Oh yeah and don’t for get it excludes your Maserati. Direct your anger at inflationary pressures and full fledged careless monetary policies please.

This is just ridiculous and deserves mockery. 2.5k vs 10k per month is a BIG difference. With 2.5k, there's 0 chance of you buying a condo, not even a mickey mouse studio unit. At 60% TDSR, a 6k mortgage loan based on a $10k salary can comfortably service a 3 bedroom resale prime district condo.

With 2.5k per month, you better forget about starting a family, your child is just going to suffer financially in this world. The average cost of bringing a child up till 18 years old is $400k, that's over $1k per month in expense just for 1 child alone. What about your expense? What about your HDB mortgage? How are you going to raise a family on $2.5k per month? It's different for someone living on $10k per month, their child can live comfortably and most likely would be able to go to an elite primary school (eg NYPS, ACS, etc) based on their's house 1km proximity.

Who made the requirement for having a Maserati? How many Maseratis do you see on the road? To start with, no self-respecting Investment Banker would drive a Maserati - it's an Ah Beng's car - Investment Bankers won't be caught dead in one. As an analyst or an associate, it's not a problem driving a Mazda Type 3. They're not client-facing at that level so the cars they drive don't matter, only VPs & above are expected to drive fancy cars because they have business development responsibilities.

Plently the most ignorant post I've seen around here. I'd love for you to tell someone who makes $2.5k per month that making $10k is not a big difference. Such a stupid motherhood statement, it clearly reflects someone who has not been through the working world and of someone who does not have any financial responsibilities. You an NSF or student?

Unregistered 05-08-2021 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179298)
Can we stop acting like 2.5k vs 10k is a big diff? Even if you earn 300k a year you are still gonna take 5 years without eating or paying taxes to buy a decent sized condo for your family. Unless you are cool with a studio apartment for your wife and kids. Oh yeah and don’t for get it excludes your Maserati. Direct your anger at inflationary pressures and full fledged careless monetary policies please.

Im not the one flaming the over-inflating trainees. But c'mon now, 2.5k vs 10k is a BIG difference. You'd have to be incredibly delusional to think that it's the same amount. If someone offered you 10k over 2.5k you'd take it in a heartbeat.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179319)
Who made the requirement for having a Maserati? How many Maseratis do you see on the road? To start with, no self-respecting Investment Banker would drive a Maserati - it's an Ah Beng's car

What is wrong with a Maserati sia
A self-respecting individual will drive whatever car he/she likes in their given circumstances

Unregistered 05-08-2021 01:23 PM

this title inflation **** is so prevalent in finance lol. another type is those back office scrub working in BB putting title as analyst without stating that they are from BO when its so obvious.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179343)
this title inflation **** is so prevalent in finance lol. another type is those back office scrub working in BB putting title as analyst without stating that they are from BO when its so obvious.

Bro, FO/MO/BO put analyst ok what. We talking about shameless SGUnited trainees putting Investment Banking and Wealth Management as their titles rofl. Anw MO/BO analysts in GTP earning almost 2x more than these “IB/GWM” wannabes

Unregistered 05-08-2021 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179338)
What is wrong with a Maserati sia
A self-respecting individual will drive whatever car he/she likes in their given circumstances

Not that there's anything with it from an objective viewpoint. People are free to make their own choices but a Maserati is emotionally perceived to be an Ah Beng's car and I'm not alone in this sentiment - you can check in with others. In Finance, image is everything. People make inferences based on what you display. If I barely know you and you tell me that you drive a Maserati, automatically I'll make inferences based on what I know about other Maserati owners. That's because the human mind has a tendancy to categorize and fill in missing information. To give an analogy (and I mean no malice in this), if you tell me that you're a Malay, i'll automatically assume that you're a Muslim. It's just human tendacy to categorize.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 02:47 PM

MO/BO both equally useless. These SUPER trainees are also trash but IMO if they do 1 yr exp there still better prospects than those perm MO BO analyst.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179347)
Bro, FO/MO/BO put analyst ok what. We talking about shameless SGUnited trainees putting Investment Banking and Wealth Management as their titles rofl. Anw MO/BO analysts in GTP earning almost 2x more than these “IB/GWM” wannabes


Unregistered 05-08-2021 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179348)
Not that there's anything with it from an objective viewpoint. People are free to make their own choices but a Maserati is emotionally perceived to be an Ah Beng's car and I'm not alone in this sentiment - you can check in with others. In Finance, image is everything. People make inferences based on what you display. If I barely know you and you tell me that you drive a Maserati, automatically I'll make inferences based on what I know about other Maserati owners. That's because the human mind has a tendancy to categorize and fill in missing information. To give an analogy (and I mean no malice in this), if you tell me that you're a Malay, i'll automatically assume that you're a Muslim. It's just human tendacy to categorize.

I see. Maybe you're right. I tend to link cars like Civic and Nissan GTR to the typical ahbengs. If an ahbeng drives a Maserati then quite atas ah, good on them

Unregistered 05-08-2021 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179347)
Bro, FO/MO/BO put analyst ok what. We talking about shameless SGUnited trainees putting Investment Banking and Wealth Management as their titles rofl. Anw MO/BO analysts in GTP earning almost 2x more than these “IB/GWM” wannabes

analyst is a rank in most banks (even for local banks) - stated in contract 1. just like how trainee is also a “rank”, so just put ur title as per ur contract, dont cringe pls.

trainee > if convert > analyst (fresh grads typically start with this title regardless of div) > assoc > vp > dir

Unregistered 05-08-2021 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179353)
analyst is a rank in most banks (even for local banks) - stated in contract 1. just like how trainee is also a “rank”, so just put ur title as per ur contract, dont cringe pls.

trainee > if convert > analyst (fresh grads typically start with this title regardless of div) > assoc > vp > dir

If you don’t know the rank just stfu. Those in GTP, they start out from trainee and they are called graduate trainee. Not all started from analyst.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179354)
If you don’t know the rank just stfu. Those in GTP, they start out from trainee and they are called graduate trainee. Not all started from analyst.

are you a fking idiot? did i say that trajectory is for ubs specifically? when I typed trainee obv i meant hopeless fktards like u. u think u comparable to those in GTP drawing 4k+ to 10k (depending on div) meh? mai siao pls

anw ubs is the special one, most foreign banks go by analyst > assoc > etc. case in point - those in ib and S&T (those legit 1 la, not like yall so diulian) have linkedin profiles of IB ANALYST and S&T ANALYST. caps to accentuate the irony for u, dont need thank me

Unregistered 05-08-2021 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179352)
I see. Maybe you're right. I tend to link cars like Civic and Nissan GTR to the typical ahbengs. If an ahbeng drives a Maserati then quite atas ah, good on them

Haha, no worries. You're probably right in differentiating Maserati drivers as atas Ah Bengs haha. Think of them as those guys who own handphone shops, car garages or their own bosses, they're not really those working-class ah bengs that you have mentioned about.

Again, nothing wrong with owning a Maserati but you won't find finance guys driving one. Can just go to MBFC, Asia Square carparks and see for yourself. They're usually higher-end continental cars or Porsches and Bentleys.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179356)
are you a fking idiot? did i say that trajectory is for ubs specifically? when I typed trainee obv i meant hopeless fktards like u. u think u comparable to those in GTP drawing 4k+ to 10k (depending on div) meh? mai siao pls

anw ubs is the special one, most foreign banks go by analyst > assoc > etc. case in point - those in ib and S&T (those legit 1 la, not like yall so diulian) have linkedin profiles of IB ANALYST and S&T ANALYST. caps to accentuate the irony for u, dont need thank me

I don’t agree on this one. Stop embarrassing yourself SGUT

Unregistered 05-08-2021 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179354)
If you don’t know the rank just stfu. Those in GTP, they start out from trainee and they are called graduate trainee. Not all started from analyst.

I can only assume that you are from the program. TS is obviously trying to point out that its fine to put Analyst regardless of your function as opposed to a SGUT claiming to be from IB/Markets/WM. ‘Most banks’ (in his/her words) do actually go by analyst > associate > vp… Hence, people with the analyst title are not misleading others / inflating their titles, its just not the same comparison. You dont see people bitching about those with Associate Director / Specialist titles (since you seem to understand only in UBS context) right? Ethical a bit; put UBS SUPER if you really damn embarrassed by the trainee title lor.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179361)
I can only assume that you are from the program. TS is obviously trying to point out that its fine to put Analyst regardless of your function as opposed to a SGUT claiming to be from IB/Markets/WM. ‘Most banks’ (in his/her words) do actually go by analyst > associate > vp… Hence, people with the analyst title are not misleading others / inflating their titles, its just not the same comparison. You dont see people bitching about those with Associate Director / Specialist titles (since you seem to understand only in UBS context) right? Ethical a bit; put UBS SUPER if you really damn embarrassed by the trainee title lor.

Obviously people won’t bitxh about Associate Director / Specialist titles because they are not easy to fake? You typed so long and you’re not making sense. Faster go do your data entry SUPER trainee

Unregistered 05-08-2021 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179363)
Obviously people won’t bitxh about Associate Director / Specialist titles because they are not easy to fake? You typed so long and you’re not making sense. Faster go do your data entry SUPER trainee

Sorry I stupid. Just read properly. Ignore this.

Unregistered 05-08-2021 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 179359)
Haha, no worries. You're probably right in differentiating Maserati drivers as atas Ah Bengs haha. Think of them as those guys who own handphone shops, car garages or their own bosses, they're not really those working-class ah bengs that you have mentioned about.

Again, nothing wrong with owning a Maserati but you won't find finance guys driving one. Can just go to MBFC, Asia Square carparks and see for yourself. They're usually higher-end continental cars or Porsches and Bentleys.

Fair point. Ah bengs also got rank.


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