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I need honest advice. Jump to banking or stick in insurance

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2020, 05:53 PM
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TS, what is your educational background? Private uni or local uni grad?

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2020, 02:07 AM
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TS, what makes you think that banking sales is easy? It's definitely not easy at all. You are likely to face the same situation in banking sales. First of all, yes you get a basic but if you are not able to perform consecutively for 3 to 6 months (meaning not hitting your target), out you go. It can be dismissal which is worse than you resigning from insurance companies. You are expected to do well EVERY month consecutively, it's not hit target this month and then slack the next month. And the targets are very very high. Some banks require you to hit targets for both insurance AND investment component, meaning you cant just do a single product type unless you are an insurance specialist.

Banks don't provide you leads, you have to source for leads yourself via the bank system. The problem is the bank system is already over-farmed. You think a lead is good, you are probably the 200th banker to call the customer. Most of the time you are still expected to bring in new leads yourself. And then luck plays a big big factor. If you are in a branch, pray that you are in a good branch with high walk-in, but that will also mean you are competing with the other 10 or more bankers in your branch. If you are in a cui branch, then you can probably say goodbye to sales. If you are a RM, it depends on your port. If you are lucky, you get a reasonably good port that you can still do sales. If you get a bad port, it's probably the end. RM target is like 3x higher than those in branch and the story repeats again. And of course to become a RM, you need to do well in your non-RM role first.

In banking sales, you dun just do sales. You have to do tons and tons and tons of servicing and admin work which can suck up all your time to do sales. Imagine reporting for work just to do servicing from 9 to 6pm (yes it can happen) and then at the end of the day, your boss chase you for numbers and is asking why are you slacking the whole day with no sales?!?

Banks do not pay good commission. The amount of commission does not even justify the amount of work you put in for sales. And then many people do not get commission at all cos they have no sales and then they disappear (cos they either get dismissed or resign).

Just sharing with you cos I have been there done that. Banking sales is definitely not the 'easy' way out, in fact it can be worse cos you have no more freedom like an agent. You have to report to office on time everyday and have to be accountable for where you are at every hour. Sometimes you are in office the whole day and your boss will question you why you are not out for appointments?? Most banks also expect you to cold call after office hours after a long day at work and imagine picking up the phone just to have customers yelling at you. The amount of stress is not for the faint hearted.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2020, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
TS, what makes you think that banking sales is easy? It's definitely not easy at all. You are likely to face the same situation in banking sales. First of all, yes you get a basic but if you are not able to perform consecutively for 3 to 6 months (meaning not hitting your target), out you go. It can be dismissal which is worse than you resigning from insurance companies. You are expected to do well EVERY month consecutively, it's not hit target this month and then slack the next month. And the targets are very very high. Some banks require you to hit targets for both insurance AND investment component, meaning you cant just do a single product type unless you are an insurance specialist.

Banks don't provide you leads, you have to source for leads yourself via the bank system. The problem is the bank system is already over-farmed. You think a lead is good, you are probably the 200th banker to call the customer. Most of the time you are still expected to bring in new leads yourself. And then luck plays a big big factor. If you are in a branch, pray that you are in a good branch with high walk-in, but that will also mean you are competing with the other 10 or more bankers in your branch. If you are in a cui branch, then you can probably say goodbye to sales. If you are a RM, it depends on your port. If you are lucky, you get a reasonably good port that you can still do sales. If you get a bad port, it's probably the end. RM target is like 3x higher than those in branch and the story repeats again. And of course to become a RM, you need to do well in your non-RM role first.

In banking sales, you dun just do sales. You have to do tons and tons and tons of servicing and admin work which can suck up all your time to do sales. Imagine reporting for work just to do servicing from 9 to 6pm (yes it can happen) and then at the end of the day, your boss chase you for numbers and is asking why are you slacking the whole day with no sales?!?

Banks do not pay good commission. The amount of commission does not even justify the amount of work you put in for sales. And then many people do not get commission at all cos they have no sales and then they disappear (cos they either get dismissed or resign).

Just sharing with you cos I have been there done that. Banking sales is definitely not the 'easy' way out, in fact it can be worse cos you have no more freedom like an agent. You have to report to office on time everyday and have to be accountable for where you are at every hour. Sometimes you are in office the whole day and your boss will question you why you are not out for appointments?? Most banks also expect you to cold call after office hours after a long day at work and imagine picking up the phone just to have customers yelling at you. The amount of stress is not for the faint hearted.
Yes, i went for the interview and i was in for a shock. The manager was telling me how banking sales is gonna be outphased in two or three years in retail space. And you are very right about the leads who are being over farmed by other Bankers. Luck does play a part. Luckily i found a new job in a trading company. My friend is the CEO Of the company. I initially thought it was easier than insurance. I decided to not to quit insurance as i am still under contract. So i have two income sources now.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2020, 01:18 AM
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To TS

Insurance and banking sales depends on a lot of the same factors:

Tenacity, ability to handle stress, deliver numbers consistently, positivity & ability to sell

The workload was incredible then and I fear would be same or higher now

Speaking from an existing banker

I have been in the industry for 15 years

10 years at retail bank, past 5 years in private banking

As a general guide to the type of targets I had to deliver

Personal banking - SGD40k to 50k of revenue per month
Premier banking - SGD70k to 100k depending on rank
Private clients - SGD100k onwards depending on rank

Thatís an incredible amount of fees that you need to generate for the bank to meet your targets

For 50k revenue, you need to sell SGD1.67m worth of unit trust at a very high 3% upfront (Hard enough when people can buy funds online for minimal brokerage)

Say you meet that and also the rest of the non sales KPI involved, you will probably take home a measly 4000 to 5000 of commission on top of your basic

As another poster mentioned, it all resets once the month is over

So you get to run it all over again, and again and again

Just as a guide, it doesnít get easier as your progress, it only gets harder.. my revenue target now at the private bank is about USD2.8m per annum or almost SGD330k per month

This is made up of retrocessions, interest income, fee income, structuring, corporate banking deals AND I need to bring in new assets to the bank every year

Do I make decent money? Yes I do, but the work is real tough and there is an element of luck in it as well as lots of hard work and hunger to make it

Good thing about banks is, at least there is an infrastructure for you to get customers via walk ins or a cold calling list. There are (or were) many roadshow and events for you to tag customers to generate a leads list or pipelines for potential deals

All in all, if you enjoy the grind of sales and are willing to stick it out.. by all means make the leap to banking. Give yourself a window to see if it works for you .. you have nothing much to lose anyway as I assume you are young

I guess you will find Yourself selling a lot of insurance as a personal banker anyway given that insurance offer the highest revenue per dollar Ratio, so you do actually have a small advantage compared to your peers

Good luck
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To TS

Insurance and banking sales depends on a lot of the same factors:

Tenacity, ability to handle stress, deliver numbers consistently, positivity & ability to sell

The workload was incredible then and I fear would be same or higher now

Speaking from an existing banker

I have been in the industry for 15 years

10 years at retail bank, past 5 years in private banking

As a general guide to the type of targets I had to deliver

Personal banking - SGD40k to 50k of revenue per month
Premier banking - SGD70k to 100k depending on rank
Private clients - SGD100k onwards depending on rank

Thatís an incredible amount of fees that you need to generate for the bank to meet your targets

For 50k revenue, you need to sell SGD1.67m worth of unit trust at a very high 3% upfront (Hard enough when people can buy funds online for minimal brokerage)

Say you meet that and also the rest of the non sales KPI involved, you will probably take home a measly 4000 to 5000 of commission on top of your basic

As another poster mentioned, it all resets once the month is over

So you get to run it all over again, and again and again

Just as a guide, it doesnít get easier as your progress, it only gets harder.. my revenue target now at the private bank is about USD2.8m per annum or almost SGD330k per month

This is made up of retrocessions, interest income, fee income, structuring, corporate banking deals AND I need to bring in new assets to the bank every year

Do I make decent money? Yes I do, but the work is real tough and there is an element of luck in it as well as lots of hard work and hunger to make it

Good thing about banks is, at least there is an infrastructure for you to get customers via walk ins or a cold calling list. There are (or were) many roadshow and events for you to tag customers to generate a leads list or pipelines for potential deals

All in all, if you enjoy the grind of sales and are willing to stick it out.. by all means make the leap to banking. Give yourself a window to see if it works for you .. you have nothing much to lose anyway as I assume you are young

I guess you will find Yourself selling a lot of insurance as a personal banker anyway given that insurance offer the highest revenue per dollar Ratio, so you do actually have a small advantage compared to your peers

Good luck
thanks for the information . i never knew i get to understand the perception of working in a bank from a private banker. I used to disagree that luck is a factor but i fully believe in it now cause not so naive anymore. I have to agree with you 100% that retail banking is a obsolete industry in the next few years due to the rise of digitilisation. When was the last time we ask retail Bankers on information about investmentS ? I was told that if i were to hit my revenue every month of 40-50k i would be getting 5 digits no? I have made a decision not to be in banking anymore as i have found greener pastures. I am currently 24 going 25 this year. Navigating through real-world is tougher than i expect. Lol
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2020, 03:16 PM
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Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To TS

Insurance and banking sales depends on a lot of the same factors:

Tenacity, ability to handle stress, deliver numbers consistently, positivity & ability to sell

The workload was incredible then and I fear would be same or higher now

Speaking from an existing banker

I have been in the industry for 15 years

10 years at retail bank, past 5 years in private banking

As a general guide to the type of targets I had to deliver

Personal banking - SGD40k to 50k of revenue per month
Premier banking - SGD70k to 100k depending on rank
Private clients - SGD100k onwards depending on rank

Thatís an incredible amount of fees that you need to generate for the bank to meet your targets

For 50k revenue, you need to sell SGD1.67m worth of unit trust at a very high 3% upfront (Hard enough when people can buy funds online for minimal brokerage)

Say you meet that and also the rest of the non sales KPI involved, you will probably take home a measly 4000 to 5000 of commission on top of your basic

As another poster mentioned, it all resets once the month is over

So you get to run it all over again, and again and again

Just as a guide, it doesnít get easier as your progress, it only gets harder.. my revenue target now at the private bank is about USD2.8m per annum or almost SGD330k per month

This is made up of retrocessions, interest income, fee income, structuring, corporate banking deals AND I need to bring in new assets to the bank every year

Do I make decent money? Yes I do, but the work is real tough and there is an element of luck in it as well as lots of hard work and hunger to make it

Good thing about banks is, at least there is an infrastructure for you to get customers via walk ins or a cold calling list. There are (or were) many roadshow and events for you to tag customers to generate a leads list or pipelines for potential deals

All in all, if you enjoy the grind of sales and are willing to stick it out.. by all means make the leap to banking. Give yourself a window to see if it works for you .. you have nothing much to lose anyway as I assume you are young

I guess you will find Yourself selling a lot of insurance as a personal banker anyway given that insurance offer the highest revenue per dollar Ratio, so you do actually have a small advantage compared to your peers

Good luck

I would like to ask on the private banking side, is it as prestigious as what it seems to be and also how do you find high net worth clients? Through networking events or recurring referrals? I rarely see premier Bankers/retail Bankers jumping to private banking. But i do see other fields like trading/people who work in other industries that make the switch to private banking. They must have some sort of rich friend/clients to manage their aum. What are your thoughts?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2020, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkingfeeling View Post
TS, what is your educational background? Private uni or local uni grad?
Private Uni. But anyway, it does not matter. I have met star-studded successful individuals from local Uni and private Uni. Itís how we play our cards i feel. Are we at the right time at the right place? Do we have very good connections. Are we Super solid with our work ethic. It all depends on the person itself.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2020, 05:23 PM
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I believe that various banks have different commission structures but the total compensation works out to be pretty close

It is usually a tiered system whereby you will earn more for exceeding your target by a certain percentage

Say 50k is your target (sales component)

Payout could be 8%

Assuming you meet all the requirements for hit your target, you will earn 4000 of commission

But say you have 60k (120% of your target), the payout goes to 10%, you will earn 6000 for that month

If your basic is 3000, then you will be close to 10k per month right?

The best tier (at least during my time) was in the so called private clients segment whereby you are essentially the highest tiered retail banker. If money is your only consideration, this is the sweet spot & not at the private bank

The Private Client RMs are usually the ones with the best books in the whole retail bank. These are the clients with minimally 1.5mio with you hence you have ammunition to run your books

Once in a while, if you are really lucky, you may get some godfather type clients who are Private Banking class but banks with you, rare but not impossible

Almost all the top private client RMs in various banks make way more money than me, I know some rake in more than 1mio in commissions alone but they are usually very senior & hold all the best accounts in the retail bank. They cannot be displaced & I guess you can say they are untouchable so their life now is wonderful.. however it took them years of grind to get to where they are

Before you gape at the commissions, remember that the commission structure is transparent. Hence the bank will pay you as long as you deliver the goods, as these guys are essentially earning millions for their firms in fee income or mega insurance deals...

Having said all that, to even get to Private Clients, it takes years of outperformance & success to get there. Every new level you get to, there is a learning curve and how quickly you adapt to it will determine how far you can go

Lots of people burn out so quickly or become so disillusioned with the job, they change roles or leave. Hence the high turnover rate in retail banking

Is PVB prestigious? I guess the imagery of it has to fit what we are trying to sell to our target group of clients. But I think you will find that it is pretty normal working environment ..nothing truly glamorous about it

Getting to PVB has many routes, you can take my route of retail bank (crawl, climb etc through the various ranks and segments, then jump)

You can be a corporate banker with a great net worth of business owners etc

Needless to say if you are connected to a network of very wealthy folks

But another route is to become an assistant relationship manager in the bank, learn the ropes and support an RM and maybe if you stick at it long enough and garner enough trust and conviction from both the RM & the Market head/ Team Head that you are capable enough.. you will be promoted to RM and be give a small portfolio to manage (small as in CHF50 to 70m)

This route could also take years.. again luck plays a big part... who you are supporting, timing, looks, fit...
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