Cornell vs Cambridge vs SMU

If all things are equal, the brand name and univ name Must help. At least it shows that the guy got good grades and was either hard working/cleverer at a given time.

Good Looks help and they should too. I am sorry to say that people shd realize that and work on it. If however, u r discriminated for reasons beyond ur control, its sad.

Originally Posted by ipodderz

Hey, thank you for your advice. You mentioned that you grew up in the US and now working locally. You mean locally as in Singapore or U.S.

No problem! Glad to help. I apologize for the confusion - I grew up in the US and now starting work locally in Singapore.

Originally Posted by ipodderz

If you meant Singapore, may I ask why did you not stay on in the US after graduation. Isn't the US a much better place?

The US is a big place, so let me narrow it down to what I can directly comment on. I grew up in southern California and went to university in northern California by San Francisco / Bay Area. In short, life there is great - the weather, laid back environment, very cheap housing/cars, good pay, etc. The sole reason I came back (at the time) was to serve my National Service obligations (my parents had found a loophole to allow me to attend and complete my education first), and I had every intention of going back to the US after getting through the obstacle that is NS. However I decided to stay in Singapore due to many factors: my family (nuclear & extended) is here; tax here is uber low (also no capital gains!); my friends are great and the nightlife is fantastic; and I figured I'd try something new (most people stereotype Americans as only knowing America with no international exposure). On top of that, I saw opportunity in Singapore. In terms of pure career / earning potential, I feel that at the end-game, Singapore can match or even beat the US (tax is only a small factor in this belief). The opportunities are there, but most people aren't willing to go after it -- more on this later.

Originally Posted by ipodderz

Also, is it difficult for asians to survive, find work etc after graduation? I have recently been told that the government has barred all international students from working in the UK after graduation from 2012 onwards.

Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited to growing up in southern California and working in the San Francisco / Bay Area. Some other areas (e.g. deep south) can be very different (e.g. much more racist). For me, I didn't find being an asian any hinderance at all to my social or work life. Americans seem to discriminate on anything as long as they have something to discriminate against, mostly if you are different or an outsider. If you are fat, they'll make fun of your weight; if you are ugly, they'll make fun of your looks; if you have no social skills, they'll call you a loser. It's not really based on race, but if people are targeting you due to other reasons, your race will become a factor. Up to high school, this will be the case. But in university the people are smarter, more accepting, and more exposed to international talent. I'll have to admit that this is purely my own personal view - some of my older siblings that were raised in Singapore felt there was discrimination; perhaps I had different experiences since I was raised in the US. Regardless, I've seen people of every race achieve tremendous social success, and even as an Asian I had no problem doing the same.

As for work, it was really too easy to find a job. I have to qualify myself here - I studied Electrical Engineering & Computer Science at a top engineering school located right in/next to Silicon Valley (the tech hub of the world, basically) so it was pretty ideal (this is in no way a coincidence - research your combination of school / major / location). Though I never applied to any jobs, senior year I literally had companies calling/emailing/Facebooking me multiple times a month and sometimes week, and all of my friends who wanted to find jobs were able to - there are plenty of opportunities to network, go to career fairs, join clubs and/or resume books, etc at any school you go to.

I'll end with an explanation of my earlier claim that SG can easily rival/beat the US in terms of job prospects and opportunities, but many locals aren't willing to go for it. In the US my starting pay was $100,000 (USD) per year as a fresh-grad working at a tech startup at which I was an early employee (my best friend and colleague had a matching offer at another big established tech firm, though he decided to join with me). I came back to Singapore to do NS (and was really upset over it at first) but as I mentioned, decided to stay and work in Singapore. I've been on the job hunt for 3 months since ORD and have gotten 4 offers at various financial institutes, all of which had increased in pay -- the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept. Comparable to US $100k after taxes + CPF etc) and signed the contracts today. I cite this example because I feel that most of the people I meet here have a strong sense of what they are entitled to, and many times that actually limits them (e.g. most people wouldn't dare to turn down the concrete offer of $4k as a fresh grad that recently ORD, or try for a $6k starting salary). My opinion is, if you are confident in your abilities and can take the risk, go for what you feel you are truly worth. I really feel bad for my friends that I meet in army that feel they can only get a certain salary/job/etc because they only went to some poly/jc/uni. Don't feel too limited or tied down by your current qualifications or past!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No problem! Glad to help. I apologize for the confusion - I grew up in the US and now starting work locally in Singapore.



The US is a big place, so let me narrow it down to what I can directly comment on. I grew up in southern California and went to university in northern California by San Francisco / Bay Area. In short, life there is great - the weather, laid back environment, very cheap housing/cars, good pay, etc. The sole reason I came back (at the time) was to serve my National Service obligations (my parents had found a loophole to allow me to attend and complete my education first), and I had every intention of going back to the US after getting through the obstacle that is NS. However I decided to stay in Singapore due to many factors: my family (nuclear & extended) is here; tax here is uber low (also no capital gains!); my friends are great and the nightlife is fantastic; and I figured I'd try something new (most people stereotype Americans as only knowing America with no international exposure). On top of that, I saw opportunity in Singapore. In terms of pure career / earning potential, I feel that at the end-game, Singapore can match or even beat the US (tax is only a small factor in this belief). The opportunities are there, but most people aren't willing to go after it -- more on this later.



Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited to growing up in southern California and working in the San Francisco / Bay Area. Some other areas (e.g. deep south) can be very different (e.g. much more racist). For me, I didn't find being an asian any hinderance at all to my social or work life. Americans seem to discriminate on anything as long as they have something to discriminate against, mostly if you are different or an outsider. If you are fat, they'll make fun of your weight; if you are ugly, they'll make fun of your looks; if you have no social skills, they'll call you a loser. It's not really based on race, but if people are targeting you due to other reasons, your race will become a factor. Up to high school, this will be the case. But in university the people are smarter, more accepting, and more exposed to international talent. I'll have to admit that this is purely my own personal view - some of my older siblings that were raised in Singapore felt there was discrimination; perhaps I had different experiences since I was raised in the US. Regardless, I've seen people of every race achieve tremendous social success, and even as an Asian I had no problem doing the same.

As for work, it was really too easy to find a job. I have to qualify myself here - I studied Electrical Engineering & Computer Science at a top engineering school located right in/next to Silicon Valley (the tech hub of the world, basically) so it was pretty ideal (this is in no way a coincidence - research your combination of school / major / location). Though I never applied to any jobs, senior year I literally had companies calling/emailing/Facebooking me multiple times a month and sometimes week, and all of my friends who wanted to find jobs were able to - there are plenty of opportunities to network, go to career fairs, join clubs and/or resume books, etc at any school you go to.

I'll end with an explanation of my earlier claim that SG can easily rival/beat the US in terms of job prospects and opportunities, but many locals aren't willing to go for it. In the US my starting pay was $100,000 (USD) per year as a fresh-grad working at a tech startup at which I was an early employee (my best friend and colleague had a matching offer at another big established tech firm, though he decided to join with me). I came back to Singapore to do NS (and was really upset over it at first) but as I mentioned, decided to stay and work in Singapore. I've been on the job hunt for 3 months since ORD and have gotten 4 offers at various financial institutes, all of which had increased in pay -- the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept. Comparable to US $100k after taxes + CPF etc) and signed the contracts today. I cite this example because I feel that most of the people I meet here have a strong sense of what they are entitled to, and many times that actually limits them (e.g. most people wouldn't dare to turn down the concrete offer of $4k as a fresh grad that recently ORD, or try for a $6k starting salary). My opinion is, if you are confident in your abilities and can take the risk, go for what you feel you are truly worth. I really feel bad for my friends that I meet in army that feel they can only get a certain salary/job/etc because they only went to some poly/jc/uni. Don't feel too limited or tied down by your current qualifications or past!

it's kinda hard for me to comprehend how USD100k p.a is comparable to SG6k p.m

are the taxes in Cali sky-high?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

it's kinda hard for me to comprehend how USD100k p.a is comparable to SG6k p.m

are the taxes in Cali sky-high?

google is your best friend. there's federal tax and state tax fyi.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

it's kinda hard for me to comprehend how USD100k p.a is comparable to SG6k p.m

are the taxes in Cali sky-high?

Absolutely. In the US you pay state tax, federal tax, social security / medisave, etc. In all I was paying about 40%. So my take-home on $100k USD p.a. was roughly $60k USD p.a.

In Singapore, $6k = $72 p.a. (SGD). Not 100% familiar with CPF / tax calculations, but I think I would pay $900 per month on CPF while my employer matches $697.5 per month (CPF cap is $4,500, you pay 20% and employer matches 15.5%). This amounts to annual CPF contributions of $11,800 from me and $8,370 from my employer, or a total of $19,170.

Now calculate my earnings after CPF (aka taxable salary) to be $61,200 ($72k - $11.8k CPF). I'll pay 3.75% tax on that, or $2,700. Which means I take home $58,500

So my earnings - taxes + CPF savings is $58,500 - $2,700 + $19,170 = almost $75k SGD p.a.

Take the current exchange rate, low as it is at 1.26 SGD / USD, and you get $59,500 USD p.a., which is pretty darn close to the $60k.

Of course, one can debate the CPF isn't the same as cash on hand, etc. But regardless the ballpark figure is somewhat similar. Not to mention money I save on rent by living at home if I'm in SG (I'm 23) :P

Many people are skewed by high figures quoted by their overseas counterparts in terms of salary and the such. But take into account the insane taxes and our additional employer CPF contributions, and the gap doesn't seem as wide anymore. PLUS, there is no capital gains tax in Singapore, so those interested in investing have a HUGE advantage here!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Absolutely. In the US you pay state tax, federal tax, social security / medisave, etc. In all I was paying about 40%. So my take-home on $100k USD p.a. was roughly $60k USD p.a.

In Singapore, $6k = $72 p.a. (SGD). Not 100% familiar with CPF / tax calculations, but I think I would pay $900 per month on CPF while my employer matches $697.5 per month (CPF cap is $4,500, you pay 20% and employer matches 15.5%). This amounts to annual CPF contributions of $11,800 from me and $8,370 from my employer, or a total of $19,170.

Now calculate my earnings after CPF (aka taxable salary) to be $61,200 ($72k - $11.8k CPF). I'll pay 3.75% tax on that, or $2,700. Which means I take home $58,500

So my earnings - taxes + CPF savings is $58,500 - $2,700 + $19,170 = almost $75k SGD p.a.

Take the current exchange rate, low as it is at 1.26 SGD / USD, and you get $59,500 USD p.a., which is pretty darn close to the $60k.

Of course, one can debate the CPF isn't the same as cash on hand, etc. But regardless the ballpark figure is somewhat similar. Not to mention money I save on rent by living at home if I'm in SG (I'm 23) :P

Many people are skewed by high figures quoted by their overseas counterparts in terms of salary and the such. But take into account the insane taxes and our additional employer CPF contributions, and the gap doesn't seem as wide anymore. PLUS, there is no capital gains tax in Singapore, so those interested in investing have a HUGE advantage here!

thanks for ur detailed response, it puts everything into perspective now.

pretty sick that you graduated from stanford (hehe good guess?). it's my dream school but i only dared to apply to UChic and UPenn because i knew there was no chance in hell i wld have gotten into Stanford

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept.

$1.5k for a prop trader position? that's pretty low! did they say how much is your cut of the profit?

I plugged USD100K into one of those "paycheck calculators" on the internet for California and after Federal, Social Security, Medicare, California tax and "CA SDI", I got S$81,506 (using 1.26 conversion) take home pay. That's S$6,792. Your paycheck in Singapore would only be S$4,875 as your CPF isn't disposable income i.e., its not in your paycheck. Social Security is similar to CPF and Medicare is similar to Medisave.

When all is said and done, you are S$1,917 poorer in Singapore. Furthermore, if you grew up in the US and are a US permanent resident, you are subject to US taxes anyway!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

thanks for ur detailed response, it puts everything into perspective now.

pretty sick that you graduated from stanford (hehe good guess?). it's my dream school but i only dared to apply to UChic and UPenn because i knew there was no chance in hell i wld have gotten into Stanford

He could have gone to UC Berkeley or one of the other state schools. I doubt a Singapore investment bank would offer a Stanford graduate with a little bit of experience just $4K for an analyst position.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

All things equal, a brand name top university definitely helps 100%, so do good looks.

Life's unfair.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If all things are equal, the brand name and univ name Must help.

That is provided "all things being equal", which most often they are not.

Call out your A-level classmates for a 25th anniversary class gathering. You will see that the distinction is in the profession rather than the brand name of the university.

In fact, for the two pinnacle professions medicine and law, I don't notice any difference between NUS or Cambridge. Do you choose your doctors by which university they went to?

It's only in the government service that the difference in university branding shows, but then its due more to the individuals being in the administrative service than the fact that they graduated from elite universities. Those who graduated from elite universities but are not in the administrative service don't seem to be doing much better than the "farmers".

That's my personal observation summarised from the namecards.