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ballacksanjay 06-03-2011 12:59 PM

Computer science prospects in SG
 
Hi all, I have just received my a level results and currently deciding whether to go computer science or mechanical engineering in NTU. Although i have more interest in computer science, i am worried that there may be few job opportunities due to massive outsourcing to foreigners especially from India. I am thinking of working for 1-2 years after my degree. After that i would apply for masters in computing and work for 2 more years before going to a MBA in business. My ultimate aim is to shift from software to finance in the future. But my dilemma is whether i should apply for computer science or mechanical engineering for my degree as i am worried about the job prospects for IT in Singapore. Anyone please offer me your guidance and suggestions. I am open to all.

Unregistered 06-03-2011 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballacksanjay (Post 10025)
Hi all, I have just received my a level results and currently deciding whether to go computer science or mechanical engineering in NTU. Although i have more interest in computer science, i am worried that there may be few job opportunities due to massive outsourcing to foreigners especially from India. I am thinking of working for 1-2 years after my degree. After that i would apply for masters in computing and work for 2 more years before going to a MBA in business. My ultimate aim is to shift from software to finance in the future. But my dilemma is whether i should apply for computer science or mechanical engineering for my degree as i am worried about the job prospects for IT in Singapore. Anyone please offer me your guidance and suggestions. I am open to all.

Computer science should have better prospects. Start in software and move into consulting, presales or sales. Or move into finance.

ballacksanjay 06-03-2011 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10026)
Computer science should have better prospects. Start in software and move into consulting, presales or sales. Or move into finance.

OIC thx but is a bachelors degree in computer science enough? or should i apply for masters in computing after my bachelors? And may i ask how to move to finance? Is it accomplished by doing a MBA in business?

ballacksanjay 06-03-2011 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10026)
Computer science should have better prospects. Start in software and move into consulting, presales or sales. Or move into finance.

One more thing. Is there demand for local gradutes in computer science in Singapore? since there is so much competition from foreigners who are willing to work for longer hours at lower pay.

JOAT 06-03-2011 02:19 PM

If you have interest in finance, why not take a Business Degree instead of Computer Science, so that you can go straight to work in finance and get the relevant experience. Just curious why you want to take a one big round to go finance.

Forseer 06-03-2011 03:38 PM

Don't waste your education in finance. Anybody can get into finance regardless of background, your education in Computer Science will be a technical degree which is of value regardless of whether you stay in the field or not. Almost any bank or large financial institutions recruit non-finance graduates for most of their positions.

Also, i expect the importance of finance in the world to shrink back to normal levels once the superbubble in US bursts. Remember, in finance you do not create anything, you merely leech of society. And ofcourse nobody is going to listen to a random forum poster, atleast take heed from Jim Rogers

"On November 4, 2010, at Oxford Universityís Balliol College, he urged students to scrap career plans for Wall Street or the City, Londonís financial district, and to study agriculture and mining instead. ďThe power is shifting again from the financial centers to the producers of real goods. The place to be is in commodities, raw materials, natural resources. Donít go to Harvard Business School. If you want to make fortunes and come back and donate large sums of money to Balliol youíre not going to do it if you get an MBA." Quoted from wikipedia

Unregistered 06-03-2011 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forseer (Post 10033)
Don't waste your education in finance. Anybody can get into finance regardless of background, your education in Computer Science will be a technical degree which is of value regardless of whether you stay in the field or not. Almost any bank or large financial institutions recruit non-finance graduates for most of their positions.

Also, i expect the importance of finance in the world to shrink back to normal levels once the superbubble in US bursts. Remember, in finance you do not create anything, you merely leech of society. And ofcourse nobody is going to listen to a random forum poster, atleast take heed from Jim Rogers

"On November 4, 2010, at Oxford Universityís Balliol College, he urged students to scrap career plans for Wall Street or the City, Londonís financial district, and to study agriculture and mining instead. ďThe power is shifting again from the financial centers to the producers of real goods. The place to be is in commodities, raw materials, natural resources. Donít go to Harvard Business School. If you want to make fortunes and come back and donate large sums of money to Balliol youíre not going to do it if you get an MBA." Quoted from wikipedia

It's hard to say. Switzerland has been doing well for almost forever doing asset management.

Jim Rogers is a bit of an extremist if you go by the things he says. Moreover, he himself made a fortune in trading and investments. He just wants smart people to produce good commodities with high productivity so his investments in commodities will go up.

Forseer 06-03-2011 04:11 PM

Less than 5% of those in the finance industry could invest/trade profitably if they lost their jobs tomorrow. Trading is a game where the 5-10% make all the money from the remaining 90-95%.

It is simply not possible to have a world where everyone moves to the finance sector, a sector which on its own has no value. That does not mean that im discouraging people from going into the finance sector, i plan to move into it in the near term too.

Wallstreet is only surviving now because of the bailouts from the US government, but who is going to bailout the US? All im saying is that when the time comes for it's decline, the Computer Science degree will be of far more value than a finance degree or MBA.

JOAT 06-03-2011 04:59 PM

eanyv ABBOTS
 
I think that is rather extreme and narrow minded. In finance there are many areas you can explore. Like insurance, corporate financing, consumer banking, investment and e.tc, so the areas are very broad. Yes, it is not necessay to go in finance without a finance degree but most of them are sales related jobs or jobs that are related to technology field (IT). Why limit your choice if you can do analysis, actuarial, accounts, compliance, investment, loans and e.tc.

Forseer statement is very much like scripts from "Wall Street" that finance do not create anything. Which I think it is trying to refer to people that are greedy and leverage unscrupulous on others for their own financial benefits. Again in the area of finance it is very broad, do not stereotype.

I do not think it is right to villify finance industry as they still create value to the society. There is insurance to protect yourself and family, hedging to protect your business, stocks/commodities/reits/bonds to grow your wealth, loans to buy house/car, corporate finance to provide loan for company to expand and helping company to get listed to grow their business. Also, Jim Rogers is just one person and he views are always extreme for instance he said "India as we know it will not survive another 30 or 40 years". Which I believe most of the academics that have done research on India economy will totally disagree. One more contradiction is that he is still a Finance Investor, if Finance is so bad why is he still in this this line. Utter BS. Also, he just started an investment fund called "The Rogers Global Resources Equity Index", Which is still related to finance!

I hope that people do not post extreme personal view that hope to influence others to have the same thoughts. Instead, we should provide valuable insights and help them explore their interest.

To "ballacksanjay", the most important thing is to know what you really want in life. I agree with "Unregistered" post, it is preferably that you go into IT sales, presales or consulting as these position are usually held by locals and are quite well paid (it might be subjective though). To get into these role you might need to work a few years as a software engineer/ network engineer/Tester/Support/Implementor. Of course, some might also start as an associate consultant in Seimens, Accenture, IBM, e.t.c. It really depends on grades and uni.

I know that you are worried of having difficulties to find a job with a Computer Science degree but no worries, with local degree and good honours, I think you will have no problem landing a job in either Private or Public sector. Only you will understand yourself well enough to know whether you have strong interest and do well in the field of Computer Science.

Also you need to know why you want to go into finance. Money or interest or job security?

If Money
In general comparison, finance is better paid. Again, it depends on which area you choose.

Else If Interest
Do a Finance related Degree

Else if job security
Depends. nobody gurantee that. Some people prefer to be an Accountant. Some will graduate with any degree and go into public sector.

Hope my explainations help.

Good Luck in your self exploration.

JOAT 06-03-2011 05:13 PM

I think Foreseer is rather self contradicting. You claim that you are not discouraging people but yet you advise others dun waste their time in having a finance degree and finance creates no value (this definitely seems discouraging to everyone who intends to go in finance sector). But yourself are going into the finance sector. Reminds me of Jim Rogers to me. Could you explain why are you still going into a sector declared by you as "No Value" ,"Shrinking Sector" , "no job security". In short, what aspired you to be a "leech"(by your definition).

Unregistered 06-03-2011 10:42 PM

the wall street talk is just plain crap. u r living in sillypore i presume. in sillypore, everything just works according to our dear govtment's plan.

ask yourself: what do u want to do in future? studying CS, u can choose a career path as a researcher, a pHd and then lecturer, or a teaching assistant. in govt sector, CS pays pretty well for programmers because they employ singaporeans and not PR. Yes FT may be taking up most of our jobs, but in the IT field if you work hard enough, you can progress to nonprogrammer skillset. Y nonprogrammer? bcos FT mainly are programmers, but not good managers.

if finance is not really your cup of tea, try to forget about it. bcos IT in finance is a cost factor. my advise is to go for IT consultancy.... NCS, IBM are looking for these kind of graduates.

ballacksanjay 07-03-2011 11:18 AM

Oic. Thx a lot for the replies guys esp Joat. I have a also been doing a lot of researching and realise that IT is still gonna be in demand in the future. My current plan is to study computer science degree in NTU but i am still deciding whether to apply for masters after bachelors degree or to work for 1-2 years after bachelors degree before applying for an MBA in finance or business. Because i heard that companies would hire talented It professionals. So i am wondering whether is a bachelor's degree is enough or a masters is more required? Anyway after 2 years of working, my ultimate aim is to study a MBA in finance or business since I also have interest in the finance side. BTW my reason for taking a computer sci degree instead of business bachelors degree is my personal reasons of wanting some good technical knowledge before going into finance. Anyway anyone please offer me your guidance on my dilemma on deciding my educational qualifications. thx

Unregistered 07-03-2011 11:53 AM

Nice...We generally dont find people interested in knowledge. The point is which of the three choices will make you the maximum money in the safest possible way. Is it CS, Mech or Business related stuff.

Undergrads dont really matter much. I will recommend u not to study CS. Let someone who has genuine interest in Technology study it. Why waste a seat when there is such a calamity in the number of seats in NUS/NTU.

If you so dead keen on Finance, why not study finance. Or maybe u lack confidence and need a backup. In that case, study CS.

Dont look for assurances from others. Trust ur instinct.

vanc 07-03-2011 12:28 PM

interest
 
I would recommend you to follow your interest. No point studying something which you are not interested it. And going into a career where you have no interest in.

I was very interested in computer stuffs and took a degree in Computer Engineering from NUS. That was after the dot com bubble. When I graduated in 2005, I took a different path from my friends/classmates (most of them went into finance/banking industry), while I went into the technological industry in a MNC.

The reality about the IT industry now is that most of them are foreigners as there is just not enough locals. Most locals go into finance/banking and that explains the intense competition going on there. Comparatively, I find the pay in the IT industry to be quite good and balance due to the absence of competition. I'm earning more than my peers in the finance/banking industry, rose up to management pretty fast and had lots of fun from the multiple overseas postings.

So pursue based on your interest and not the market trend. And never follow the advice of the government. From Life Science, to Law, to Business, the graduates from these fields are having difficulties finding jobs after they graduate.

Unregistered 07-03-2011 12:58 PM

Do a double major in com science and biz

chnrxn 07-03-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanc (Post 10052)
So pursue based on your interest and not the market trend. And never follow the advice of the government. From Life Science, to Law, to Business, the graduates from these fields are having difficulties finding jobs after they graduate.

And never blindly follow the advice of the government

Yes, very very true. They will get you in to meet their targets, but then after that, you are on your own. It is very easy for someone to take a 2 week course in bioscience and go back to what they are doing. But once you spend 4 years of your life specializing in it, you have a hard time getting out.

Unregistered 11-03-2011 08:56 AM

why singaporeans don't go into IT
 
STRAITS TIMES: Yes, there are job enclaves

I CONCUR with Ms Laurelle Ho ("Employment enclaves"; last Tuesday) about ethnic enclaves of foreign nationals in multinational companies in Singapore.

About three years ago, my nephew, who had been working in an IT department in Citibank for a number of years, had his service terminated, together with all his Singaporean colleagues, due to restructuring.

But all his Indian national colleagues were retained. Incidentally, the senior officers in the department were Indian nationals.

The Government should consider introducing a quota for foreign nationals in companies based in Singapore.

Rohim Kalil

Yes, there are job enclaves

chnrxn 11-03-2011 03:08 PM

Actually I would agree that Finance ON ITS OWN has no value. Money is only a representation of value. In a world with ZERO goods and services, money has no value. Of course, such a world is very unlikely to exist, so this idea remains a theory. Finance will always have its value in this world.

Joat 16-03-2011 09:49 PM

Hi ballacksanjay, just wondering what area of finance attracts you? Do you plan to be an investment analyst or financial engineering or someone that uses IT to improve financial systems?

Comp. Eng. graduate 16-03-2011 11:17 PM

Dunno if u know this, but this is what i gathered from friends who graduated together with me in 2009-2010 period.

I would just like to simply state starting salaries of IT positions in banks/financial institutions with presence in Singapore. The lowest starting pay is around 3.3k in a local bank, and the highest, as far as I know, is 5.8k per month in a top-tier investment bank.(i.e. 40K - 70K per annum).

Many fellow fresh grads who are in technology graduate/analyst/associate (whatever it's called in each bank) are from varying academic backgrounds, such as mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, chemical engineering, mathematics, physics and business/finance.

One thing is similar in all these banks & their hiring strategies: they DO hire nerds, who can get the job done. they PREFER smart people who get decent grades and at the same time participate in activities/committees/volunteer services.

Apart from banks, there are also MNCs and statboards which pay decently. Mindef and DSTA pays the best for 1st class honours guys with NS, among the IT statboard.
MNCs pays are more varied. From automobile, aerospace,oil&gas and manufacturing industries, these companies also require competent graduates. Amazingly, my friends who are working in R&D or Product Management in semi-con factories earn quite a lot. The base pay may seem low, somewhere around 2.8-3.5k depending on companies, when you factor in OT and allowances, it could work out to as much as 4.5-5k !!! NO JOKE.
Banks don't pay OT hahahaha!!

IT pay surely is not as high as those in Front Office, such as corporate finance/sales/trading roles (starting pay offer of at least 6k to as high as 10k SGD per month for a fresh grad). You can expect VERY long hours for these high-paying jobs, averaging 80-100 working hours PER WEEK, while in IT, it generally averages about 50-60 hours per week. I'd rather enjoy life while that lasts.

Imagine you've a few hundreds of thousands of dollars in your bank account, but tsunami/earthquake strikes out of the blue. How will you get to spend it, if you die. And if you survive? Give away as donations or make more money as market is closing low?

Look at Japan right now. Some traders are getting richer by 'shorting' the market. They're laughing their asses off now with $$$ flowing into their PnL sheets. But is it... moral? That's up to you to define...

Unregistered 16-03-2011 11:24 PM

Start with IT in banks. Got better prospects than government. And perhaps got a little more work life balance (no OT pay mah) compared with semi-con.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Comp. Eng. graduate (Post 10242)
Dunno if u know this, but this is what i gathered from friends who graduated together with me in 2009-2010 period.

I would just like to simply state starting salaries of IT positions in banks/financial institutions with presence in Singapore. The lowest starting pay is around 3.3k in a local bank, and the highest, as far as I know, is 5.8k per month in a top-tier investment bank.(i.e. 40K - 70K per annum).

Many fellow fresh grads who are in technology graduate/analyst/associate (whatever it's called in each bank) are from varying academic backgrounds, such as mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, chemical engineering, mathematics, physics and business/finance.

One thing is similar in all these banks & their hiring strategies: they DO hire nerds, who can get the job done. they PREFER smart people who get decent grades and at the same time participate in activities/committees/volunteer services.

Apart from banks, there are also MNCs and statboards which pay decently. Mindef and DSTA pays the best for 1st class honours guys with NS, among the IT statboard.
MNCs pays are more varied. From automobile, aerospace,oil&gas and manufacturing industries, these companies also require competent graduates. Amazingly, my friends who are working in R&D or Product Management in semi-con factories earn quite a lot. The base pay may seem low, somewhere around 2.8-3.5k depending on companies, when you factor in OT and allowances, it could work out to as much as 4.5-5k !!! NO JOKE.
Banks don't pay OT hahahaha!!

IT pay surely is not as high as those in Front Office, such as corporate finance/sales/trading roles (starting pay offer of at least 6k to as high as 10k SGD per month for a fresh grad). You can expect VERY long hours for these high-paying jobs, averaging 80-100 working hours PER WEEK, while in IT, it generally averages about 50-60 hours per week. I'd rather enjoy life while that lasts.

Imagine you've a few hundreds of thousands of dollars in your bank account, but tsunami/earthquake strikes out of the blue. How will you get to spend it, if you die. And if you survive? Give away as donations or make more money as market is closing low?

Look at Japan right now. Some traders are getting richer by 'shorting' the market. They're laughing their asses off now with $$$ flowing into their PnL sheets. But is it... moral? That's up to you to define...


Sykke 30-06-2011 11:51 PM

shorting Japan? You serious? They should be bankrupt by now. hahaha..

Unregistered 08-05-2015 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOAT (Post 10039)
Forseer statement is very much like scripts from "Wall Street" that finance do not create anything. Which I think it is trying to refer to people that are greedy and leverage unscrupulous on others for their own financial benefits. Again in the area of finance it is very broad, do not stereotype.

Lol, it isn't just Jims Rogers. There's also Charlie Munger, who is Buffett's number 2.

Finance doesn't create any value. Most overrated industry.

Unregistered 14-05-2015 08:02 PM

This is hilarious, TS haven't even touch CS before, now want to do MSc? Boy don't think so far first, you may not fit.

Unregistered 15-05-2015 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66539)
Lol, it isn't just Jims Rogers. There's also Charlie Munger, who is Buffett's number 2.

Finance doesn't create any value. Most overrated industry.

this thread is 4 years old already, why dig ah?

finance is everywhere around you, maybe u didn't realize.

Unregistered 15-05-2015 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66765)
this thread is 4 years old already, why dig ah?

finance is everywhere around you, maybe u didn't realize.

Maybe you're a retard who can't see past $$$ and understand the meaning of "value".

Unregistered 15-05-2015 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 66799)
Maybe you're a retard who can't see past $$$ and understand the meaning of "value".

u stupid ah? use value to pay for your goods and services ah. u do business sure huat lor.


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