Working in a bank

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, would like to get some advice on how to move into a front office role. I've been in ops for 10 months after graduating. I am not too concerned about salary at the moment but I would like to get into a role that is more exciting and less mundane.

What kind of entry-level front office roles are there? I ask this as so far all the junior/asst RM roles or other related roles i've come across require around 2/3 years of exp.

RM for the usual corporate and consumer banking is just a low level sales & customer service job struggling to meet monthly kpi. It's no better than ops in terms of progression and pay.

It is just as mundane and exciting as any other job. Time to adjust your expectations to the real world and stop thinking about short cuts to an adventure, a job is to make a living, being passionate or excited about it is a bonus not a normal thing.

Those "real" FO jobs that you guys in banking keep thinking of belongs to only a very small niche and if you can even get in the 1st place won't be working at ops already.

The jump from Ops to FO is very tough, especially in Singapore when headcount is so lean even in FO. Sorry but I don't consider RM FO roles. Real FO roles are in IBD and S&T.

Perhaps look at how you can jump into MO. Some Treasury roles can be exciting and I've seen people jump from Treasury to S&T. Or explore Corporate Banking, you can get a very good niche credit skill set that can go far.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The jump from Ops to FO is very tough, especially in Singapore when headcount is so lean even in FO. Sorry but I don't consider RM FO roles. Real FO roles are in IBD and S&T.

Perhaps look at how you can jump into MO. Some Treasury roles can be exciting and I've seen people jump from Treasury to S&T. Or explore Corporate Banking, you can get a very good niche credit skill set that can go far.

I'm keen on corporate banking, and I am currently in one of the divisions in corporate banking, albeit in a ops role. I don't disagree with the poster above, and I'm not delusional enough to think of myself as someone deserving of an IBD or S&T role, at least not with my current profile. But what I would like to do is to strive to get into a better role for myself or at least have a more fulfilling time at work, which is not currently happening for me in ops. Interested to know what kind of areas I can move into within Corporate banking as an entry level or someone with 1 yr of experience, as there are little to no entry level credit analyst roles around in the market at this point of time.

Would be a bonus if you could also share what kind of progression there is in corporate banking, in terms of career trajectory and such. Thanks.

I disagree with the common misconception that ops is boring SOP nothing to learn and no future while "FO" (don't think anyone in banking industry considers them FO btw) like Priority, Private, Commercial or Corporate Banking is sexy, exciting, high paying and can progress quickly.

Ops side also got people move up to SVP or MD level and if you are a low level Manager or AVP grunt the work is going to be boring as you are really just doing all the 'sai gang' for the higher ups. Other than those elite jobs where people with talents or connections jump straight into action, this sort of hardship is just requirement that most people need to go through for the first 10-20 years of their career.

Sometimes I hear similar complains from my peers in other industries always saying how support or ops depts cannot make it nothing to learn and sales & marketing is where all the action & money is. But if you look at it objectively, IT support also can rise up to IT Director / CTO, Procurement can be Supply Chain Director, operations can be COO etc.

It's all about whether you can move up the ladder with a combination of performance, politics, connections and luck. This idea that the closer you are to revenue generating and customer facing, the more to learn and faster salary progression is just not true for most industries including banking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm keen on corporate banking, and I am currently in one of the divisions in corporate banking, albeit in a ops role. I don't disagree with the poster above, and I'm not delusional enough to think of myself as someone deserving of an IBD or S&T role, at least not with my current profile. But what I would like to do is to strive to get into a better role for myself or at least have a more fulfilling time at work, which is not currently happening for me in ops. Interested to know what kind of areas I can move into within Corporate banking as an entry level or someone with 1 yr of experience, as there are little to no entry level credit analyst roles around in the market at this point of time.

Would be a bonus if you could also share what kind of progression there is in corporate banking, in terms of career trajectory and such. Thanks.

It's hard to say at all as the CB division in banks are very different. CB in a local bank vs CB in JPM/BAML? All have different desks. I know someone in Citi CB who does a lot of modelling/valuation work, almost similar to IBD, so he has built up a solid skillset.

Perhaps you should try asking people for coffee chat and network a bit.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I disagree with the common misconception that ops is boring SOP nothing to learn and no future while "FO" (don't think anyone in banking industry considers them FO btw) like Priority, Private, Commercial or Corporate Banking is sexy, exciting, high paying and can progress quickly.

Ops side also got people move up to SVP or MD level and if you are a low level Manager or AVP grunt the work is going to be boring as you are really just doing all the 'sai gang' for the higher ups. Other than those elite jobs where people with talents or connections jump straight into action, this sort of hardship is just requirement that most people need to go through for the first 10-20 years of their career.

Sometimes I hear similar complains from my peers in other industries always saying how support or ops depts cannot make it nothing to learn and sales & marketing is where all the action & money is. But if you look at it objectively, IT support also can rise up to IT Director / CTO, Procurement can be Supply Chain Director, operations can be COO etc.

It's all about whether you can move up the ladder with a combination of performance, politics, connections and luck. This idea that the closer you are to revenue generating and customer facing, the more to learn and faster salary progression is just not true for most industries including banking.

This does make sense, but with regards to salary, I believe that even the base salary for sales and marketing roles are higher than those for ops. Starting salary for entry level positions have a less significant difference but I believe that the difference increases as you rise up the ranks. Would be glad to know otherwise, but from what I see personally and on this forum, folks in back office or ops jobs are still making under 10k even after 10 yrs of exp whereas even those in other industries tend to break this 10k barrier more easily. Definitely not refuting what you have said, but I'm keen to understand more about this portion as well.

I managed to move from a CB BO function into buy-side roles using a few years. I am still in the same function earning similar to bank's FO (IBD/S&T), without the sales pressure yet the opportunity to hone the same set of skills.

I was headhunted for BB IBD (TMT) roles but turned them down because of the long hours and sales pressure.

*Maybe those looking for a move from BO to FO can consider an initial move outside of the industry?*

Originally Posted by Passerby A

I managed to move from a CB BO function into buy-side roles using a few years. I am still in the same function earning similar to bank's FO (IBD/S&T), without the sales pressure yet the opportunity to hone the same set of skills.

I was headhunted for BB IBD (TMT) roles but turned them down because of the long hours and sales pressure.

*Maybe those looking for a move from BO to FO can consider an initial move outside of the industry?*

Any advice on moving into the buy side from a BO role? Are there any steps to take to increase the chances of this movement by taking up additional certifications etc?

Originally Posted by Passerby A

I managed to move from a CB BO function into buy-side roles using a few years. I am still in the same function earning similar to bank's FO (IBD/S&T), without the sales pressure yet the opportunity to hone the same set of skills.

I was headhunted for BB IBD (TMT) roles but turned them down because of the long hours and sales pressure.

*Maybe those looking for a move from BO to FO can consider an initial move outside of the industry?*

Very interesting. And what exactly are you doing on the buy-side?

How did you even get headhunted for a BB IBD role from a CB BO function...? BO + zero skillsets/experience in Corporate Finance work. And er...I don't think you do sales in IBD.

Same poster as above ^.

Re-read you post, you're doing the same function on the buy-side. So it's still a BO role (assuming it's operations) on the buy-side. You're saying ops on the buy-side pay the same as a BB FO?

I don't know if you're trolling but I'm sure you know that BB IBD pays 10k for FO fresh out of uni as an Analyst. The best buy-side shops like Blackstone wouldn't pay 10k for Operations.