settle for an engineering course or retake exam?

[suppertime]

Wow. Thanks for the information!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Another thing I forget to add. There is a big difference between first class honors vs 2nd class upper. Big difference between 2nd upper vs 2nd lower. About 5% of cohort will get 1st class, 30% 2nd upper. Estimation.

Give you a real life example. During my year, we started sending out resumes 3 months before graduation. At that point, we did not know our expected class of honors. I indicated 2nd upper. I also indicated 2nd upper for my internship applications. I didn't get a single banking internship. Ending up going to audit firm for my internship. Before graduation, I sent out many applications to banks (rejected by 50%) and never progressed much in those that i got shortlisted for. The only job offers I got was for Audit firms (start pay $2.4k)

When finally I graduated and got 1st class. I started applying again. The only change in my CV was I updated expected 2nd upper to First Class honors. I got shortlisted by investment banks, management associate program etc. Even the audit firms called me up and offered me additional $300 in-lieu of my first class. (didn't know they could do this because I thought they were on standard pay scale but they did)

In one offshore bank, their investment banking program had a minimum 2nd upper cut-off. Because there were so many 2nd upper who applied, they tightened to only interview first class. Immediately, my chances shot up due to smaller pool of candidates. During the interviews, my interviewers skipped all the technical questions. When I had indicated 2nd upper, I was being asked accounting basics (e.g. how do you consolidate, account for associates/JV, what is minority interest, how do you value a firm) My answers were mediocre. However with a first-class honors, I had many interviewers who skipped asking technicals because as one put it "I expect these are all basic to you considering you are first-class honors". In their mind, I have already qualified for the job.

Class of honors do matter. Interviewers are superficial, lazy. Go engineering and end up with 2nd lower = you will regret later.

Yea, like me. I'm totally lost now. So don't make the same mistake. Think carefully and ask as many people as you can.

Don't be silly and waste your life in engineering!!!
If i can go back 10years and start all over again... I would have gladly retook my A levels "twice" to not end up an engineer today...
These is no pride, no money in the profession....... Nowadays, i see those young, fresh banking & finance grad get starting salaries even higher than me aften 10 years.. Really squeesh balls, until swollen and bleeding...
I was too naive and silly to listen to the gahment... got conned after hearing about the "bright" prospects of being an engineer, all those advertisement is all b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t!!! ... It's all a f.u.c.k.i.n.g lie!!!! Don't believe!!!!!
If you have a choice and not yet jump into this s.h.i.t.h.o.l.e , please reconsider 1,000,000,000 times!!!
Wat the f.u.c.k are talking about that pple should work in engineering becos of passion.. How much is that passion worth when when you have trouble providing the best for your family.. When your wife tells you that she regrets marrying an engineer... your child wants to go crawl back into the hole it came from.....

Originally Posted by suppertime

Hello everyone, I have a place in NUS's mech eng. There are many things on my mind that I wish to get opinions for.

After reading the threads here, it seems, in general, engineers are underappreciated and underpaid. Given that I'm in NS at the moment, I have intentions to retake my A levels to qualify for harder-to-get-in courses such as B A, accountancy. Then again, will such a degree be more valuable?

People say that a mech eng degree is rather flexible. Which industries can they be employed besides the financial sector? Will a 2nd upper do?

Does a mech eng degree offer a decent level of financial upward mobility? Can any kind soul hit me with the facts and figures?

I heard that a private candidate of the local GCSE A levels will not be subjected to the same moderation that local JCs get. Hence the former's certificate is not as recognised/valued. Is it true?

Comments are highly appreciated. Thank you!

Then what if I'm half-silly and have an engineering degree already, where should I go? haha.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Then what if I'm half-silly and have an engineering degree already, where should I go? haha.

Haha... Nowhere you are doomed... You are fighting 10,000 foreigners for 100 jobs in engineering... If you continue in engineering, you will be stuck forever.... Remember there are NO President Scholar's going for engineering courses. The only one is a Chemical Engineer, this shows you how the government is going to spend its money in time to come....

If you want to max your salary: Do well, get MNC experience on your resume. Go take GMAT and get into a good MBA program. Apply to investment banks.

Now, consider this. I have a brother 1 year younger than me. He graduated with a computer engineering degree, local uni. Work-wise, he is a pretty smart chap and is doing very well in a MNC - doing project based, programming work.

He is 1 year younger than me, drawing a salary (high 3k). I'm drawing a salary >$10k in finance sector (also a local grad)

However, he has arguably much easier life than I am. I start work at 7 and end work at 9pm. He starts work at 9pm and leaves office on the dot (at 6pm)

I work 1 weekend on average per month. He has never worked a single weekend for the last 2 years.

My work is highly stressed and my firm expects tip top performance from me at all times. My brother switches off the moment 6pm ends. He gets by being mediocre. Firm don't expect much from him as he is just 1 of the many engineers in the company.

Which kind of life do you prefer?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Then what if I'm half-silly and have an engineering degree already, where should I go? haha.

My brother looks forward to work. He has 2 hour lunches with his colleagues and they hang out after work. Weekend they gather for activities like golf etc.

Myself? Everyday I prepare for a battle at work. My lunch hours are at best 45 minutes and often I buy food back to my desk. I have no more energy after work. Go home, bathe get ready for another day at work.

Sure, I earn alot more money than him. I bought a continental car but I drive it to work before sun rise and drive it home after sun sets. It feels good for awhile but the that good feeling fades away so quickly.

So what do I do with the extra money?

I could buy a house. Probably can buy a Condo quicker than he can afford. Yet, he would still be able to afford a condo later anyway.

I can splurge on high-end dining. How much more satisfaction can that bring? Expensive clothes, how much more?

At the rate I am going, I would probably stress out and have health problems later in my life. How much is that worth?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you want to max your salary: Do well, get MNC experience on your resume. Go take GMAT and get into a good MBA program. Apply to investment banks.

Now, consider this. I have a brother 1 year younger than me. He graduated with a computer engineering degree, local uni. Work-wise, he is a pretty smart chap and is doing very well in a MNC - doing project based, programming work.

He is 1 year younger than me, drawing a salary (high 3k). I'm drawing a salary >$10k in finance sector (also a local grad)

However, he has arguably much easier life than I am. I start work at 7 and end work at 9pm. He starts work at 9pm and leaves office on the dot (at 6pm)

I work 1 weekend on average per month. He has never worked a single weekend for the last 2 years.

My work is highly stressed and my firm expects tip top performance from me at all times. My brother switches off the moment 6pm ends. He gets by being mediocre. Firm don't expect much from him as he is just 1 of the many engineers in the company.

Which kind of life do you prefer?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

IMHO, if you don't have a strong reason to pick engineeering, don't! Engineering in Singapore is only for people who are really interested in it, don't mind the low pay for the amount of effort put in, and mediocre prospects.

Well. Dun be sterotypical. Often, engineering graduates are not condemned to work in the same profession. There are many employers who value ENG graduates (at least 2nd upper). Some of the reasons are:
1. It's an undisputed fact that ENG is a demanding course and excelling it takes efforts and some grey matter.
2. It trains you to handle problems logically and pay close attention to details.
3. The lacking aspect of business/finance understanding can be sufficed with further studies in a decent BS (INSEAD, Chicago Booth, etc) or by getting CFA/FRM,etc. And numerous MNCs are willing to sponsor your studies if you have proved your worth.

Some examples of ENG graduates earning decently:
1. Me (bottom 5% of my NUS cohort 2004)/ DGM in a MNC/ $11K+ monthly
2. My bro (1st class in NUS cohort 2001) / Fund manager in an European Fund setup/ unknown
3. China Friend A (1st class in NUS cohort 2004, CFA, MBA with distinction from INSEAD)/ Associate director in Off-shore bank/unknown
4. China Friend B (1st class in NUS cohort 2004, CFA)/ VP of multi-billion dollar mutual fund company based in China/unknown
5. The list is endless...

Many may disagree my point. My principle is, certificate is just a plain piece of paper to get you started. It wouldn't guarantee you a promising life (unless you have a 1st class from HBS/MIT + MBA from HBS) What determines your career is your attitude, personality, social circle, and brain. Finally, money is not everything.

But since your salary is almost 3 times that of what your brother earns... You only need to work 10 years to earn what he has to spent 30 years of his life to work for.. If you are frugal and is wide to save up.. You would be able to retire 3 times faster than him as well... I think that is a good deal considering the early financial freedom you will get to enjoy.. Alot of pple slog to the day they die... they also cannot afford to buy a condo and a continental car... I'm sure they will give anything to exchange places with you anytime.. There is nothing scarier than being poor in Singapore...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you want to max your salary: Do well, get MNC experience on your resume. Go take GMAT and get into a good MBA program. Apply to investment banks.

Now, consider this. I have a brother 1 year younger than me. He graduated with a computer engineering degree, local uni. Work-wise, he is a pretty smart chap and is doing very well in a MNC - doing project based, programming work.

He is 1 year younger than me, drawing a salary (high 3k). I'm drawing a salary >$10k in finance sector (also a local grad)

However, he has arguably much easier life than I am. I start work at 7 and end work at 9pm. He starts work at 9pm and leaves office on the dot (at 6pm)

I work 1 weekend on average per month. He has never worked a single weekend for the last 2 years.

My work is highly stressed and my firm expects tip top performance from me at all times. My brother switches off the moment 6pm ends. He gets by being mediocre. Firm don't expect much from him as he is just 1 of the many engineers in the company.

Which kind of life do you prefer?

The more you earn the more you spend. Early retirement is a dream that many have but few ever realise. Houses and cars are so expensive here in Singapore. Raising a family in SG also drains up alot of resources. The moment we buy a house, we are enslaved to the 30 year loan.

Grass is greener on the other side. My colleagues always talk about when they can finally quit their jobs and move to the easier buy-side role. We envy those that can leave their jobs at 6pm without a care in the world.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But since your salary is almost 3 times that of what your brother earns... You only need to work 10 years to earn what he has to spent 30 years of his life to work for.. If you are frugal and is wide to save up.. You would be able to retire 3 times faster than him as well... I think that is a good deal considering the early financial freedom you will get to enjoy.. Alot of pple slog to the day they die... they also cannot afford to buy a condo and a continental car... I'm sure they will give anything to exchange places with you anytime.. There is nothing scarier than being poor in Singapore...