3 Years without Honours or 4 Years with a 2nd Lower/3rd Class Honours?

First class honours do show that you perform exceptionally well and good in FYP/thesis. 2nd upper on the other hand, is WAY overrated compared to poor 2nd lower grads. I even heard some courses do not need you to write thesis to get 2nd upper.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Of course. It is not mathematically correct to choose someone based on bell curve, let alone CAP.

For eg, some people score B+ B+ B(the most important and relavant core) BA(some random elective), would secure a second uppers with 4.0,

but someone else who scored A-(most relavant core to job/scholarship) B+ B+ B B(some random elective) who been deemed a 2nd lower (3.9).

This is just an example with 5mods to illustrate the unfairness of how B and A- (2 grades difference, mind you!) in the most relavant (and perhaps challenging) core can make a difference in the interview process. And of course, examinations are not the most accurate assessment tool, but what's more about the A in some random elective assessment?

I hope employers and the universities are not so dumb to look at the class of honours by itself.

ur suggestion is ideal, but hard to implement..

seriously guys, no point complaining.. this is the system, it wldnt change at least for the next 5 years, prob 50 years in reality. just suck it up man, all we can do is play within the system.

i have a 3rd class from NUS, and after hundreds of applications and only a few interviews at govt and MNCs, i realised this, people there only like to work with people like themselves. they themselves being scholars, 1st class and 2nd upper, can relate to the fresh grads with same qualifications more. their honest opinions of 3rd class, pass degree and non-ivy/local unis? "these guys are crap, dont waste my time." u may be darn hardworking, working full-time in the day and studying part-time at night. for 3 years, all ur time and money are spent on upgrading yourself for a better career. do u seriously think the HR chick cares? haha!! hard truth guys.

even u got in, there's a high chance of u not fitting in well and being stepped over at the bottom of the ladder. be realistic and abandon this "Singaporean Dream" if u really cant meet the cut. apply for the less "glamorous" posts, apply for SMEs, apply for boring jobs. stop comparing to your better-to-do peers. life is unfair. set your own definition of success, leave out career and big money. focus on more impt stuff like health, relationships and happiness.

Hi,

Not all hope is loss!
I've seen pple without second upper scalin high and well within CS.

I've seen pple with only a pass degree becomin an AD within 5yrs in the ministry and one who becomes a snr ad aft 6yrs of service. Someone with only second lower + master becomin with a superscale CEP.

As long as u display good work performance, u will b rewarded with wat u deserve.
I've also seen those with at least a second upper who can't work/perform than someone without any honours.

Singapore is saturated with pple with tt elitist mindset. The more these elites bring down pple with their micro mindset, all the more it displays their insecurity? Stellar academic performance just indicated they are book smart, not necessary they are really tt smart.

In short, just cont workin hard and striving! Not all hope is loss!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi,

Not all hope is loss!
I've seen pple without second upper scalin high and well within CS.

I've seen pple with only a pass degree becomin an AD within 5yrs in the ministry and one who becomes a snr ad aft 6yrs of service. Someone with only second lower + master becomin with a superscale CEP.

As long as u display good work performance, u will b rewarded with wat u deserve.
I've also seen those with at least a second upper who can't work/perform than someone without any honours.

Singapore is saturated with pple with tt elitist mindset. The more these elites bring down pple with their micro mindset, all the more it displays their insecurity? Stellar academic performance just indicated they are book smart, not necessary they are really tt smart.

In short, just cont workin hard and striving! Not all hope is loss!

These people are outliers, it's like telling school dropouts they can succeed because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are dropouts too. Whether you can make it to the top of the ladder is somewhat already decided by your PSLE score. I have no real numbers but I believe at least 70-90% of the top management in both public and private sectors came from big name secondary schools. It good to dream big, but also important to be realistic in your dream or you'll just end up bitching how unfair the world is.


Check out this list:

Lee Kuan Yew - Raffles Institution
Goh Chok Tong - Raffles Institution
PM Lee Hsien Loong - Catholic High
DPM Teo Chee Hean - St Joseph's Institution
DPM Tharman Shanmugaratnam - Anglo- Chinese School
K Shanmugam - Raffles Institution
Lim Hng Kiang - Raffles Institution
Heng Swee Keat - Raffles Institution
Chan Chun Sing - Raffles Institution
Tan Chuan Jin - Maris Stella High School
Lawrence Wong - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan - Anglo-Chinese School
Dr Ng Eng Hen - Anglo-Chinese School
Lui Tuck Yew - Anglo-Chinese School
Lim Swee Say - Catholic High School
Gan Kim Yong - Catholic High School
S Iswaran - St Andrew Secondary School
Dr Yaacob Ibrahim - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Khaw Boon Wan - Chung Ling High School Penang
Mrs Grace Fu - Nanyang Girls' High School
Former President Yusof Ishak - Raffles Institution
Former President Benjamin Sheares - Raffles Institution
Former President Devan Nair - Victoria School
Former President Wee Kim Wee - Raffles Institution
Former President Ong Teng Cheong - Chinese High School
Former President S R Nathan - Victoria School
President Tony Tan - St Patrick School / St Joseph Institution

Originally Posted by Unregistered

These people are outliers, it's like telling school dropouts they can succeed because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are dropouts too. Whether you can make it to the top of the ladder is somewhat already decided by your PSLE score. I have no real numbers but I believe at least 70-90% of the top management in both public and private sectors came from big name secondary schools. It good to dream big, but also important to be realistic in your dream or you'll just end up bitching how unfair the world is.


Check out this list:

Lee Kuan Yew - Raffles Institution
Goh Chok Tong - Raffles Institution
PM Lee Hsien Loong - Catholic High
DPM Teo Chee Hean - St Joseph's Institution
DPM Tharman Shanmugaratnam - Anglo- Chinese School
K Shanmugam - Raffles Institution
Lim Hng Kiang - Raffles Institution
Heng Swee Keat - Raffles Institution
Chan Chun Sing - Raffles Institution
Tan Chuan Jin - Maris Stella High School
Lawrence Wong - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan - Anglo-Chinese School
Dr Ng Eng Hen - Anglo-Chinese School
Lui Tuck Yew - Anglo-Chinese School
Lim Swee Say - Catholic High School
Gan Kim Yong - Catholic High School
S Iswaran - St Andrew Secondary School
Dr Yaacob Ibrahim - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Khaw Boon Wan - Chung Ling High School Penang
Mrs Grace Fu - Nanyang Girls' High School
Former President Yusof Ishak - Raffles Institution
Former President Benjamin Sheares - Raffles Institution
Former President Devan Nair - Victoria School
Former President Wee Kim Wee - Raffles Institution
Former President Ong Teng Cheong - Chinese High School
Former President S R Nathan - Victoria School
President Tony Tan - St Patrick School / St Joseph Institution

Mayb the one who is bein unrealistic here is no one but you! Quotin all the big names and dreamin to b like one of them... There are also those who din perform academically well, but earnin quite a hefty sum... Anw, u can cont with ur elitist mindset... While u can't stop me from encouraging pple... Haf a good day!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

These people are outliers, it's like telling school dropouts they can succeed because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are dropouts too. Whether you can make it to the top of the ladder is somewhat already decided by your PSLE score. I have no real numbers but I believe at least 70-90% of the top management in both public and private sectors came from big name secondary schools. It good to dream big, but also important to be realistic in your dream or you'll just end up bitching how unfair the world is.


Check out this list:

Lee Kuan Yew - Raffles Institution
Goh Chok Tong - Raffles Institution
PM Lee Hsien Loong - Catholic High
DPM Teo Chee Hean - St Joseph's Institution
DPM Tharman Shanmugaratnam - Anglo- Chinese School
K Shanmugam - Raffles Institution
Lim Hng Kiang - Raffles Institution
Heng Swee Keat - Raffles Institution
Chan Chun Sing - Raffles Institution
Tan Chuan Jin - Maris Stella High School
Lawrence Wong - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan - Anglo-Chinese School
Dr Ng Eng Hen - Anglo-Chinese School
Lui Tuck Yew - Anglo-Chinese School
Lim Swee Say - Catholic High School
Gan Kim Yong - Catholic High School
S Iswaran - St Andrew Secondary School
Dr Yaacob Ibrahim - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Khaw Boon Wan - Chung Ling High School Penang
Mrs Grace Fu - Nanyang Girls' High School
Former President Yusof Ishak - Raffles Institution
Former President Benjamin Sheares - Raffles Institution
Former President Devan Nair - Victoria School
Former President Wee Kim Wee - Raffles Institution
Former President Ong Teng Cheong - Chinese High School
Former President S R Nathan - Victoria School
President Tony Tan - St Patrick School / St Joseph Institution

u forgot to mention ppl who graduated from these schools yet did not make it in life. some just end up being hawkers, doing middle level management jobs, some gamble their life away.

bills gates, steve, and those people in the above list all started out with rich parents who can give them a good education in those days. today, the way to become rich is through inheritance. the rich just becomes richer.

Also, many more not from these schools are driving bigger cars than them.

Hi,

I came from a poor family but i studied hard and got into top schools and then NUS. I got a very good job because of my 2nd Upper from NUS. I worked hard, day and night, did very well in my job, got good salary and big bonuses. I am an investment genius and did well in my personal investments.

Now, at 44, I am a millionaire. From a pauper to a millionaire.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

These people are outliers, it's like telling school dropouts they can succeed because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are dropouts too. Whether you can make it to the top of the ladder is somewhat already decided by your PSLE score. I have no real numbers but I believe at least 70-90% of the top management in both public and private sectors came from big name secondary schools. It good to dream big, but also important to be realistic in your dream or you'll just end up bitching how unfair the world is.


Check out this list:

Lee Kuan Yew - Raffles Institution
Goh Chok Tong - Raffles Institution
PM Lee Hsien Loong - Catholic High
DPM Teo Chee Hean - St Joseph's Institution
DPM Tharman Shanmugaratnam - Anglo- Chinese School
K Shanmugam - Raffles Institution
Lim Hng Kiang - Raffles Institution
Heng Swee Keat - Raffles Institution
Chan Chun Sing - Raffles Institution
Tan Chuan Jin - Maris Stella High School
Lawrence Wong - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan - Anglo-Chinese School
Dr Ng Eng Hen - Anglo-Chinese School
Lui Tuck Yew - Anglo-Chinese School
Lim Swee Say - Catholic High School
Gan Kim Yong - Catholic High School
S Iswaran - St Andrew Secondary School
Dr Yaacob Ibrahim - Tanjong Katong Secondary School
Khaw Boon Wan - Chung Ling High School Penang
Mrs Grace Fu - Nanyang Girls' High School
Former President Yusof Ishak - Raffles Institution
Former President Benjamin Sheares - Raffles Institution
Former President Devan Nair - Victoria School
Former President Wee Kim Wee - Raffles Institution
Former President Ong Teng Cheong - Chinese High School
Former President S R Nathan - Victoria School
President Tony Tan - St Patrick School / St Joseph Institution

Yes, what about people from top schools getting 2nd lower and below just because they enter competitive courses , or they are pushed by competitive people? No wonder bill gates and steve job drop out from uni! Uni grading system is unfair for over brilliant people! Yes PSLE/Olevel/Alevel or other post-uni qualifications are even more reliable! HHAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi,

I came from a poor family but i studied hard and got into top schools and then NUS. I got a very good job because of my 2nd Upper from NUS. I worked hard, day and night, did very well in my job, got good salary and big bonuses. I am an investment genius and did well in my personal investments.

Now, at 44, I am a millionaire. From a pauper to a millionaire.

I am smilar to you, got into top schools but i enter one of the most competitive NUS courses, not medicine due to poor finance, but scored a 3.87/5.0 in the end. Yes i slacked a little, but I felt patronized when people say "2nd lower and below= lousy". Luckily, I still do well in my career.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

ur suggestion is ideal, but hard to implement..

seriously guys, no point complaining.. this is the system, it wldnt change at least for the next 5 years, prob 50 years in reality. just suck it up man, all we can do is play within the system.

i have a 3rd class from NUS, and after hundreds of applications and only a few interviews at govt and MNCs, i realised this, people there only like to work with people like themselves. they themselves being scholars, 1st class and 2nd upper, can relate to the fresh grads with same qualifications more. their honest opinions of 3rd class, pass degree and non-ivy/local unis? "these guys are crap, dont waste my time." u may be darn hardworking, working full-time in the day and studying part-time at night. for 3 years, all ur time and money are spent on upgrading yourself for a better career. do u seriously think the HR chick cares? haha!! hard truth guys.

even u got in, there's a high chance of u not fitting in well and being stepped over at the bottom of the ladder. be realistic and abandon this "Singaporean Dream" if u really cant meet the cut. apply for the less "glamorous" posts, apply for SMEs, apply for boring jobs. stop comparing to your better-to-do peers. life is unfair. set your own definition of success, leave out career and big money. focus on more impt stuff like health, relationships and happiness.

No point complaining but we its worth to point out such existing elitists! We have poly/ITE students complaining abt JC students and neighbourhood schools mocking at elite schools.... I just wonder why the even more apparent elitist attitudes of good honours students (im not saying all of them are elitists) is being brushed or accept as hard truth. Truth is university grading system is even more unfair, inaccurate than A levels/ O levels/PSLE. Yet people choose to accept such unfairness as hard truths? What ********?