I versus Foreign Talent

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The uneven playing field starts even before work, at school.

It is well known (on the internet at least) that fully paid scholarships and allowances are given to foreigners to study at local universities. How and why did the foreigners come? They were INVITED, none other than by the Singapore government e.g. adverts were placed in local newspapers abroad, events organised abroad. The quality of these foreign students, particularly in recent years, is questionable. It has come to the point that a lousier foreigner can win a scholarship over a better Singaporean. Come graduation, the foreigner has zero student debt, whereas the Singaporean has a debt of > 20k (4 years study). The Singaporean male also starts work later due to NS, losing two years of income.

Why are foreigners treated better than Singaporeans? Is it because most Singaporeans are unlikely to leave our families here, and will put up with most things, because we are a compliant lot? Is it because the government can simply get away with it, at least until the next election?

Can we trust the government to act in the average Singaporean's interest? Only if you are the ideal citizen (cheaper smarter faster younger tougher and thinks that the PAP can do no wrong), which then Singapore is perfectly suited to you. Work until you drop dead from exhaustion, then the hole gets plugged by a foreigner, no problem, so many here anyway. That is what extreme pragmatism does for you, Singaporean. Is that how you want to live, is that the country that we have become?

For the average born and bred Singaporean, when does it stop? Does it ever stop? Perhaps when Singapore is as cheap as China but as good as say Switzerland. I will be gone from this country by then, I don't like how it has become, and I do not trust my government anymore.

Where do you plan to migrate to? Has anyone here researched on which cities are the best to migrate to? I figure it's better to be a 2nd class citizen in another country than be a 3rd or 4th class one in Singapore.

I heard that the money from selling HDB (assume mostly paid) and from cashing out CPF is sufficient to get most of us investor status in some countries. Is it true?

Malaysia has this long term social visit scheme where you need to have 500k ringgit invested. Definitely doable for most of us. But it's not emigration.

Terms & Conditions

This is the link to read more about the malaysia as second home scheme:
http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

[Inneart]

It has come to the point that a lousier foreigner can win a scholarship over a better Singaporean. Come graduation, the foreigner has zero student debt, whereas the Singaporean has a debt of > 20k (4 years study).

Adduce the source of the information that a lousier foreigner wins a scholarship over a better Singaporean. This is highly dubious. Foreigners have bonds to clear, don't forget that.

Can we trust the government to act in the average Singaporean's interest? Only if you are the ideal citizen (cheaper smarter faster younger tougher and thinks that the PAP can do no wrong), which then Singapore is perfectly suited to you. Work until you drop dead from exhaustion, then the hole gets plugged by a foreigner, no problem, so many here anyway. That is what extreme pragmatism does for you, Singaporean. Is that how you want to live, is that the country that we have become?

An ideal citizen does not have to be of the same mind as his/her government.
If you read my initial post, I stated that ONLY the mediocre or genuinely lazy ones procrastinate YET casts a shallow perspective on himself/herself. A card must be dealt multiple times in order to truly grasp the game.

[Inneart]

Originally Posted by lazyplane

well i dont think it just about seeking to be number one.
i just feel we arent even treated the same as ft in my own country.

to give more egs

singaporeans we have to serve ns. FT dont. even if they come in b4 18 etc.
we are told we r quitters if we leave this country for a better place. they are labelled as talents...
we dont get any special study grants even if we produce the same class honors as ft...
if u need a scholarship , we have to fight both local and ft for a local scholarship
u try to get hdb with parents cannot because parents own hdb. ft can apply for hdb andn form a family concept with their parents whom r on permanent pass..... oh yeah, their parents own property outside sg but can u catch them ?
singaporean males got to do reservist... why cant ft be asked to give time to singapore in other ways ?

the list goes on...

if singaporean goes to any other country, and i really wish to know which other country can give us the same perks we give ft....as i will seriously consider going there....

only recently we have asked these ft to learn to sing our national anthem.
go watch how our ft sport players sing it when they win a medal for singapore....it is just smile and move mouth without words....

oh yeah... and if they eArn enough here.. just go marry someone from their home country and be a citizen again...WITHOUT penalty....

i was not against ft but after working with so many and for so long, i just dont see how the playing field is fair...and i am in my own country... and this is the same thing my ft says to me... at first i thought only one or two such ungrateful idiots.... until i worked in a company which is hq overseas... and singaporeans r treated like dirt there and my ft colleagues tell me these things in the face.....n to all singaporeans there....

i have learnt that unfortunately we singaporeans r so used to being abused we just suck it up... and even if we want to complain, who can we complain to ?
make too much noise only kanna wack further...

For most of your foregoing points, I agree with you that our government is indeed, TOO loose in allowing FTs to gain PR and citizenship.

Nonetheless, if we really planned well and worked effectively, we could evade most underpinning crises like low-tier job competition and miserable remuneration. After all, like I have always said, a man's course is largely determined by himself, not by extrinsic factors.

Btw, FTs have to serve bonds. Contemplate this likened to a measure in-lieu of National Service, etc

Originally Posted by Inneart

Btw, FTs have to serve bonds. Contemplate this likened to a measure in-lieu of National Service, etc

If you check the china discussion forums, there are many examples of FTs getting away WITHOUT serving the bonds (I believe you are referring to those FT "scholars" who got a free-ride education in Singapore). It seems to me our government is unwilling to openly punish these recalcitrants for fear of offending them and creating a backlash and affecting Singapore's attractiveness to FTs. We are such weaklings and lackeys.

Even if they serve bonds, how can you liken it to NS?

Originally Posted by Inneart

Adduce the source of the information that a lousier foreigner wins a scholarship over a better Singaporean. This is highly dubious. Foreigners have bonds to clear, don't forget that.

An ideal citizen does not have to be of the same mind as his/her government.
If you read my initial post, I stated that ONLY the mediocre or genuinely lazy ones procrastinate YET casts a shallow perspective on himself/herself. A card must be dealt multiple times in order to truly grasp the game.

Want proof that foreign students have it better? Plenty of proof
NUS Denies Scholarship to Top Local Talent Opinion TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS
Ex-Teacher: Discrimination of S’poreans starts from secondary school Letters TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS

Bond? Hahahahaha!
I personally know a Hong Kong scholar whose parents were her guarantors. She decided to leave, never serving a single day of her bond here. The family is based in HK, and never paid back the bond value. She is now working in HK. Recently she visited Singapore, evidently she has no problems re-entering the country.

I know Mauritius scholar A. Mauritius scholar B was his guarantor, and vice versa. Scholar A worked here for one year and decided to leave. Both A and B left Singapore, nobody paid back the remaining bond value. Scholar A is now working in Canada.

Personally, I would prefer that foreigners are not bonded at all because they compete with locals for jobs. But that would make a mockery out of the taxpayers monies given to these foreigners to study here. But in the light of bond-breaking scholars that go scot-free anyway, we are already making a mockery of ourselves.

Compare bond breaking by foreigners who Singaporeans. I know three (and counting) Singaporeans who broke their bond, each paid five-figure sums back. Is it because they and their guarantors are Singaporeans and are easily tracked down?

I believe that salary.sg is frequented by the above-average Singaporean who is probably better educated, better-paid and better-off, with family and friends who are comfortable. While you may have an easy life, and wonder what the fuss is about, be aware of and do not forget the fears and struggles of the average Singaporean:
Support Site for The Unemployed|Support Site for The Unemployed
The Online Citizen - A Community of Singaporeans
TEMASEK REVIEW EMERITUS – Singapore’s Leading Social-Political Blog – ?????

The better-off in society will always have it fine. They have the means, skill and the mobility to go to a better place in the world if they want to. Its the average person and the needy that we must help, and not make things worse off for them. For where in the world can the average person rightfully expect help, except in his own country? Yet its so different in Singapore.

[Inneart]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you check the china discussion forums, there are many examples of FTs getting away WITHOUT serving the bonds (I believe you are referring to those FT "scholars" who got a free-ride education in Singapore). It seems to me our government is unwilling to openly punish these recalcitrants for fear of offending them and creating a backlash and affecting Singapore's attractiveness to FTs. We are such weaklings and lackeys.

Even if they serve bonds, how can you liken it to NS?

Well, considering bonds akin to a lengthy stint that one must compensate and taking into consideration, true and legitimate scholars whom were assiduous in planning and making steps to attain an education here.

[Inneart]

Want proof that foreign students have it better? Plenty of proof

What of the proof deems to prove?

Of which demographics do these mentioned belong to? How wide is the scope of the proof?

I believe that salary.sg is frequented by the above-average Singaporean who is probably better educated, better-paid and better-off, with family and friends who are comfortable. While you may have an easy life, and wonder what the fuss is about, be aware of and do not forget the fears and struggles of the average Singaporean:

This is, indubitably, not a strong reasoning as if a man has limbs and the tenacity to strive in our modern society, what kind of "fears and struggles" are you referring to? Monetary debts or family dysfunction? What is defined as better educated, better-paid and better-off if you weigh an average family with their average needs comparing it to a big and wealthy family with their needs? How you define needs and wants clearly stokes this my friend.

Lest you are telling me it's merely the repugnance toward stinking rich FTs whom scorn and look down on locals, that I can comprehend. What you are saying is without grounds.

The better-off in society will always have it fine. They have the means, skill and the mobility to go to a better place in the world if they want to. Its the average person and the needy that we must help, and not make things worse off for them. For where in the world can the average person rightfully expect help, except in his own country? Yet its so different in Singapore.

I truly empathize legitimate folks who toiled diligently to obtain that scholarship yet to only lose it to some random FT, nonetheless, what are the odds

Do our best and have faith to obtain the rest!

i look the world and see it as a very messy place.

the government has tried and may still be trying to attract rich and talented foreigners to singapore, so that they will bring some of their wealth over and
develop singapore with their knowledge.

in the process, singaporeans seemed to have been overlooked and as citizens of our own country, we have reasons to be disenchanted, especially since some of the foreigners that came to singapore are neither rich nor talented from personal experience.

some may argue that there are always black sheeps who make use of the singapore's policies for their own gains. in the first place, many of the resources used to groom these foreigners could have been used for our own people. many worked hard but cannot gain a niche in singapore not because they are not resilient or intelligent, rather they were not given the opportunity.

[Hermit]

Guys, you can argue till the cows come home and still achieve nothing.

Go out there and carve out a niche for yourselves quickly. If you can start a business or build a personal branding for a service, do it now.