Salary.sg Forums

Salary.sg Forums (https://forums.salary.sg/)
-   Education and Personal Growth (https://forums.salary.sg/education-personal-growth/)
-   -   Thinking of doing an Life Science diploma/degree? Read this first. (https://forums.salary.sg/education-personal-growth/1279-thinking-doing-life-science-diploma-degree-read-first.html)

warning 26-03-2011 11:35 AM

Thinking of doing an Life Science diploma/degree? Read this first.
 
Limited choices with biotechnology diploma
Mon, Nov 19, 2007
The Straits Times

I REFER to the article, '2 top cancer research groups to set up shop here' (ST, Nov 5). It stated that the arrival of two prominent research institutes was a 'strong validation of Singapore's importance as a research node'.

While the presence of these two new research institutes here further cements our role as a regional hub, we should not neglect the local population.

This year, the biomedical research industry in Singapore came under fire because a large amount of money was invested in this area with little returns in terms of conclusive data.

Relate this to the fact that most research scientists here are expatriates on expatriate pay.
Wouldn't it be more cost- effective to hire local graduates who can do these jobs?

I am aware that one of the most prominent research institutes here does not offer scholarships to polytechnic graduates for further studies and I believe this discounts the fact that there are keen minds in polytechnics today.

I studied biotechnology at diploma level, under the impression that I would have good prospects in terms of future studies and career advancement.

However, the fact is that only the top 10 per cent of polytechnic graduates are accepted by local universities. This leaves the remaining 90 per cent of life sciences students with limited choices.

These choices include going overseas to pursue a degree in biomedical science (which not everyone can afford), or jumping ship and pursuing a degree that has nothing to do with life sciences. I have, unfortunately, opted for the latter.

Also, I would like to point out that most polytechnic students have at least four months of industrial experience, due to student internship programmes that are a prerequisite of most diploma courses.

In fact, one of my former polytechnic classmates, who is currently studying in a local university, often has to guide his classmates, who graduated from junior college, in the correct use of laboratory equipment as well as safety protocol.

Furthermore, I have noted that even with a good degree, job openings in biomedical research institutes are hard to come by.

That said, one question I feel should be addressed is this: Why groom us when there is little intention of hiring us?

Denise Mohan (Ms)

warning 26-03-2011 11:35 AM

The Life Science Conundrum
After the hype, grads now realise that there’s no place for them in the industry
Today, 9 Oct 2006
Loh Chee Kong

IN 2002, when Singapore universities had barely begun producing their own life sciences graduates, Mr Philip Yeo, chairman of the Agency for Science, Technology and Research (A*Star), famously rattled those unndergraduates when he said that they would only be qualified to wash test tubes.

But four years on, armed with their Bachelor’s degree, some of these graduates are learning the truth of his words the hard way. Many from the first cohort have ended up in junior research positions or manufacturing and sales jobs in the industry - positions that do not require a life sciences degree. Others find themselves completely out of the field.

Said Edmund Lim, 27, who graduated two years ago, and now works as a property agent: “One of my classmates is working illegally in Australia, peddling psychotropic drugs to clubbers. Many of my classmates have gone into teaching. Others are in pharmaceutical or equipment sales.”

Another life sciences graduate, who declined to be named, found a job recently at a tuition centre, after failing to land research-related positions for over a year despite numerous job applications.

Already an established base for pharmaceutical manufacturing, Singapore has been trying, in the past five ears, to move beyond manufacturing to more high-end research that is “value-added”.

According to the industry’s annual reviews compiled by A*Star and the Economic Development Board’s Biomedical Sciences Group (EDB BMSG), an average of a thousand new jobs were created annually for the past five years. Last year, there were 10,200 manufacturing jobs in the industry, almost doubling the 5,700 jobs created in the then-fledgling sector in 2001. By 2015, EDB targets the number of such jobs to hit 15,000.

But the booming figures mask a Catch-22 situation: The current shortage of PhD holders in the biomedical sciences cluster is hampering Singapore’s bid to attract multinational companies to move their high-end research projects here. Without a PhD, most of Singapore’s life sciences graduates are only qualified to work as research assistants.

And both graduates and diploma holders vie for these positions that could pay less than $2,000 a month. In the industry’s manufacturing sector, life sciences graduates compete against their peers from other general sciences and engineering disciplines. They face even stiffer competition in the sales sector, where paper qualifications take on less significance.

A*Star’s Biomedical Research Council oversees and coordinates public sector biomedical research and development activities. On the surplus of life sciences graduates, its executive director Dr Beh Swan Gin told Today: “It is not a situation that can be easily communicated, as there are many factors involved. Simply put, a PhD is essential for progress as a researcher. And there are still not enough Singaporeans pursuing PhD studies.”

Adding that the local universities should not pander to the students’ demand for the subject, Dr Beh said: “The job market of today and tomorrow, is the market the universities should focus on. The manufacturing and commercial jobs have always been there, albeit there are more of these now. NUS (National University of Singapore) and NTU (Nanyang Technological University) should get better data on the demand for life science graduates at the Bachelor’s degree level.”

In 2001, NUS’ Science Faculty rolled out an integrated life sciences curriculum and NTU started its School of Biological Sciences (SBS) a year later. Meanwhile, the polytechnics also introduced more life sciences courses. Thousands of students jumped on the bandwagon, with demand outstripping the supply of places in these courses.

Professor Tan Eng Chye, NUS’ Dean of Science - who believes that it could take another five years for the industry to establish itself - acknowledged that his school’s intake of life sciences undergraduates was “a bit too high”.

“When we started offering a major in life sciences in 2001, 550 students took up the programme. For the subsequent intakes, the number stabilised at about 450. But we would be more comfortable with about a hundred less,” said Prof Tan, who added that many students were “unrealistic” about their job prospects.

Said Prof Tan: “A lot of students were probably all hyped up to look for R&D jobs. And when they can’t get such jobs, they could be disappointed. If they want to do research, they should further their studies.”

Nonetheless, some headhunters, like Kelly Services’ Lita Nithiyanandan, predict that it is “only a matter of time” before these “highly valued” graduates find willing employers. Said Ms Nithiyanandan: “As most of these multinational life sciences companies have recently set up or moved their R&D centres to Singapore, they require senior and experienced research professionals at this stage to streamline operations and get compounds approved fast for clinical trials. Once these centres are more established they will definitely need fresh graduates for researching new compounds.”

She added: “Overall, Singapore’s biomedical scene is evolving as a mature hub for Asia Pacific. This would create opportunities across the board for skill sets through the value chain from fresh graduates to mid-level research and analysts to high-end PhD professionals.”

Unregistered 26-03-2011 04:32 PM

The life sciences experiment in Singapore is a total failure. Philip Yeo is now nowhere to be seen in the life sciences industry. He has been rewarded and moved on.

Similarly the Suzhou experiment was a failure and the guys at the top were also rewarded.

Strange system in singapore. Elite cadres will always be rewarded while farmer peasants and their sheep get shoo-ed into experiments and left to rot when the experiments fail. Foreign talents are then brought in to boost GDP.

when some young guy complains, he gets rebutted with "who's gonna build your HDB flats?"

Win liao.

Unregistered 06-12-2011 01:28 PM

up this post for this year's grads

Unregistered 06-12-2011 04:23 PM

Excellent articles.
As a triple science A level student, it not hard to dismiss life science, engineering and computer science (heavily promoted by astar or edb) as career path. Going to choose law, banking or medicine

Unregistered 06-12-2011 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 18647)
Excellent articles.
As a triple science A level student, it not hard to dismiss life science, engineering and computer science (heavily promoted by astar or edb) as career path. Going to choose law, banking or medicine

Good choices. I would rank your choices:
(1) banking
(2) law
(3) medicine

Unregistered 06-12-2011 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 18648)
Good choices. I would rank your choices:
(1) banking
(2) law
(3) medicine

I would instead rank (note the spacing):

(1) medicine
(2) law




(3) banking

Bankers are usually retrenched in their mid forties and then have to take up much lower paid second careers like teaching, whereas doctors and lawyers can work till their eighties or even nineties in the same profession, provided if they're not doing surgery, hence their lifetime earnings are much higher.

Renowned psychiatrist Dr. Wong Yip Chong, who passed away at age 82 in August 2011, was earning $3 million a year at age 75 in 2004.

The Straits Times Aug 9, 2011

"Yesterday, Justice Lai rejected Meng Cheong's and Meng Leong's claims that their father was mentally incompetent in December 2004, when he signed the document making Madam Ling the joint owner of the house.

The judge noted that Dr Wong, the 'cash cow' of the Adam Road Hospital he founded, treated 727 patients that month and generated $3 million in income that year; he was also signing complex corporate documents well into 2006."

I cannot imagine a banker still earning $3 million a year at age of 75, unless he owns the bank, which brings me to another point. In the first two professions (medicine and law) you are the employer whereas in banking you are most likely just an employee (unless your family owns the bank).

You get lots of respect being an employer than an employee and it does wonders for your ego, something money cannot buy.

Unregistered 06-12-2011 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 18651)
I would instead rank (note the spacing):

(1) medicine
(2) law




(3) banking

Bankers are usually retrenched in their mid forties and then have to take up much lower paid second careers like teaching, whereas doctors and lawyers can work till their eighties or even nineties in the same profession, provided if they're not doing surgery, hence their lifetime earnings are much higher.

Renowned psychiatrist Dr. Wong Yip Chong, who passed away at age 82 in August 2011, was earning $3 million a year at age 75 in 2004.

The Straits Times Aug 9, 2011

"Yesterday, Justice Lai rejected Meng Cheong's and Meng Leong's claims that their father was mentally incompetent in December 2004, when he signed the document making Madam Ling the joint owner of the house.

The judge noted that Dr Wong, the 'cash cow' of the Adam Road Hospital he founded, treated 727 patients that month and generated $3 million in income that year; he was also signing complex corporate documents well into 2006."

I cannot imagine a banker still earning $3 million a year at age of 75, unless he owns the bank, which brings me to another point. In the first two professions (medicine and law) you are the employer whereas in banking you are most likely just an employee (unless your family owns the bank).

You get lots of respect being an employer than an employee and it does wonders for your ego, something money cannot buy.

I beg to differ. It's get-rich-quick vs quick-rich-slow.

First, doctors and lawyers are actually professionals. This means they have to work in order to get paid. How many lawyers actually make partners? I mean real partners, not those partners-in-name who still have to work crazy hours. And how many doctors go on to own hospitals? Most will at most run specialist clinics, which means they still have to work in order to get paid.

The road to making partner (for lawyers) and owning a private practice (for doctors) is long and arduous. Most don't make it there. Even if they make it, it's get-rich-slow.

On the other hand, banking is get-rich-quick. Yes, you have to get into right roles - ib, trading, pe, etc, BUT you get a good shot at getting rich quick. Doctors and lawyers don't.

Once you make your first few millions, there are countless ways to make more money.

warning 06-03-2012 10:46 AM

up for a-level grads applying for uni

KeaneLJC 16-03-2012 09:50 AM

This thread is a MUST-READ for all students considering to join the Life Science industry. My advise is, never set foot in this landfill! The opportunities here are no longer as bright as what the papers claimed to be a couple of years ago!

- Year 3 Biomedical Science Student, from Singapore Polytechnic

Unregistered 16-03-2012 11:25 AM

Life science is a failed experiment in Singapore. Just look at the published budget for A-Star this year versus that of its yesteryears.

warning 12-01-2013 05:58 AM

Up for o level grads

kopitiam 14-05-2013 02:29 PM

Biomed Science grads chose to be hawkers
 
From doing sales for a year to tuition the next 1 year and then to join family hawker business. You decide!

RAZORTV - Science grads chose to be hawkers

Unregistered 23-04-2014 06:22 PM

Why don't you join a Pharmaceutical plant or any biotech company? GSK is now starting up new plant and now looking into doing vaccine related product. And now they are hiring people because of all the new plant starting up. Isn't this related to life science? In the biotechnology field, many foreign investment is starting


*question from a person who is in engineering field(science field) and has friendS who working in pharmaceutical plant and life science related jobs.

Unregistered 27-05-2014 03:19 PM

Poly grad here gradutated with a science engineering diploma, finishing NS soon and I too am quite interested in Life Sciences, specifically biomedical science.
anyone can help give advice on this?
is life science in Singapore really such a dead end?

Unregistered 29-05-2014 12:18 AM

Take Engineering, trust me. You do the sciences as electives or minors in uni.
Want to take a leap of faith? Make sure you end on the right side of the cliff. Life science degree from anywhere both local or private in a Singapore market means
a) Assistant researcher (Another fancy way of saying wash test tube)
b) Researcher (Obtaining funding, patents, grants)
c) Biomedical sales (As Per mentioned)

So lets look at it objectively.

a) Its a joke, you wont go anywhere with that. Your just an overqualified lab assistant. Want to try companies like GSK? They rather hire the bioengineers. ASTAR? Research based companies. You can get them, just not the job you imagined. The kind where you do real research and discoveries.

b) The best option. Problem is, need do postgraduate studies. This is a CONFIRMED thing. No 2 ways about it. And to do a masters in life science field, not so easy and it takes time and also, will be very very stressful during your research year aka PHD understudy (work and research at the same time, 18 hours minimum a day with only 2k allowance). Just to air a degree of caution, my lecturer told me research line is good and interesting...for a few years, just to get the knowledge. Never NEVER consider it as the endgame. You wont be rich or rather wont be where you think you'll want to be.

c)Not that there isn't any money in biomedical sales, or sales for that matter but you will be in the same river as insurance agents, housing agents. Selling products to customers. Lets be candid, most do not make it here.
http://www.soshiok.com/content/not-l...kills-go-waste
This couple are biomedical graduates. Had a chance of taste their fishball noodles, its not bad really. Didn't really used the degree to make fishballs. Downstairs my house btw, ru ji kitchen


You want to follow your interest then you better dam well know the fine line between reality and passion. Know what majors you gonna do. What field of research are you looking at. Cancer research? Pathological research? Stem cells? You need to know what companies are looking for and even what are the companies to look for. You better be sure you get a FCH if your going to get the interview for a masters programme.


My advice? Its simple.
Same reason why I wouldn't take applied chemistry but chemical engineering instead.
With an engineering degree, its an iron rice bowl albeit not on par with lawyers or medicine grads but there and then, if you do well with a good engineering degree, you will be looking at

a) The companies that bio science grads are looking at.
b) Top notch engineering firms like shell, bp, glaxo smithkline, Pfizer even.
c) Finance side, i.e, the banks, Citibank, BOA, Accenture, Barclays, merrill lynch, all of which are premier firms to work at.

Remember this.
A 5.0 life science gpa gets you the interview for masters.
A 5.0 engineering degree can get you the interview for McKinsey & Company.
And if your first job is at McKinsey & Company, your first house will not...or rather cannot be a HDB according to government law in accordance with minimum/maximum income.

Think carefully.

Unregistered 11-04-2015 12:31 PM

In the past five years, at least three major pharmaceutical companies have shut down their research and development (R&D) operations here. In 2010, American pharmaceutical firm Eli Lilly and Company closed its R&D unit of 130 staff, nine years after it was set up. Three years later, United States-based Pfizer closed its clinical research unit, which was set up in 2000. It laid off 30 employees as a result. Last year, British firm GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) ended its eight-year-old R&D operations at Biopolis.

Hendrix 26-04-2015 02:14 PM

Don't limit yourself to life science careers
 
I graduated from life science 7 years ago and joined the finance industry. Looking back, that was the best decision I've made seeing how some schoolmates who are doing their postgrad now are thinking of leaving the industry but realised that they are too niched and too expensive to be hired outside science. There is also this stress of job security among them as research is heavily based on funding. Some labs are closing down or have to change direction to do research projects that are commercially viable to attract investors. It's a tough field to be in with limited opportunities and slow salary progression. Fresh biz grad in banks could get a higher pay than recent PHD graduate. So I feel unless one is really passionate abt research and is not concerned abt compensation package, don't limit yourself to a career in life science.

Unregistered 26-04-2015 05:10 PM

I think it was much easier for a life science grad to join the finance industry 7 years ago, than it is right now.

Unregistered 05-05-2015 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendrix (Post 65982)
I graduated from life science 7 years ago and joined the finance industry. Looking back, that was the best decision I've made seeing how some schoolmates who are doing their postgrad now are thinking of leaving the industry but realised that they are too niched and too expensive to be hired outside science. There is also this stress of job security among them as research is heavily based on funding. Some labs are closing down or have to change direction to do research projects that are commercially viable to attract investors. It's a tough field to be in with limited opportunities and slow salary progression. Fresh biz grad in banks could get a higher pay than recent PHD graduate. So I feel unless one is really passionate abt research and is not concerned abt compensation package, don't limit yourself to a career in life science.

Nice to hear that you managed to enter the finance industry back then. Could share with us, if you took up any additional courses in finance related to enter that field with a life science degree?

sounds like life science degree is not too good.. wonder if there is any life science grads out there doing well in science/other sector?

Unregistered 13-11-2015 12:48 PM

Agreed! I decided to study biomedical science from SP. Really regretted once I started my internships and realised, my prospects weren't really very good unless you get a PhD. If you are looking for a high paying job, don't get into life science. The amount of stuff you have to study only to get such measly pay after your degree. IMHO, not worth it. I was at a loss after graduating, so I ended up signing on. Lol.

livefreelytoday 19-02-2016 10:18 AM

Thats the Biologics manufacturing industry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 50817)
Why don't you join a Pharmaceutical plant or any biotech company? GSK is now starting up new plant and now looking into doing vaccine related product. And now they are hiring people because of all the new plant starting up. Isn't this related to life science? In the biotechnology field, many foreign investment is starting


*question from a person who is in engineering field(science field) and has friendS who working in pharmaceutical plant and life science related jobs.


Salary.sg 16-02-2017 06:56 PM

"What happened to the students in Singapore who studied Life Sciences after the strong government program to push Life Sciences during the early 2000s?

Are they doing well today in the Life Science industry? Or did many of them already switched careers? Any anecdotes to share?"

https://www.quora.com/What-happened-...he-early-2000s


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 01:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2