Sounds like a pool of imbeciles.
I have interviewed ST staffs before and I must say the quality of this group of people varies drastically. The disappointing ones don't know anything much and they even can link promotions to the paper qualifications. They treat it like a rotation job and when it's time, they promote if they have a degree.
The better ones also don't know much as though they have been wasting their time in ST doing nothing. But at least this group are willing to learn.
Some of them come with so much angst and distisfaction with the company that I sometimes wonder why did they even join in the first place.

Check toilet lo, make sure no choking.

Engineer solve management problem la

Your colleague sounds like a project engineer or project manager.

MNC project engineer here.
I can't imagine how useless the ST project management team is if that's what defines a project engineer/manager.

I'm curious what is your normal job in a MNC as a project engineer.

Quite a lot of work.

Link up with business development on new feasible projects and draw up the charter to convince the management that a new project is worth the investment.

Loads of meetings with defined outputs to meet. The quality guys will be there to make sure you stick to agenda and get everyone to clear off the agenda of the day. You won't have a meeting that's talking about nothing, it is always about meeting some input. The meetings can take place during the wee hours of the morning in order to accommodate customers or colleagues from another time zone. Sometimes in teams sometimes in zoom whichever customer wants. Before the covid, I have to fly over to customer's sites when we have major buy off gates to clear.

Sometimes project team members run into disputes with customers, so I need to coordinate with stakeholders to negotiate until the disputes are resolved.

Some software or products end up with automotive, telecommunications or aerospace so I need to get the right quality team to support because each industry have their own requirements and it's a pain in the ass to have violations. Be at customer audits which sometimes take place in a remote location in the industrial area of rural US, Europe or China. Luckily we have a global team of subject matter experts to support, so I don't have to do everything myself.

Make sure the design is up to customers requirement because they sometimes change their mind every now and then jeopardizing my deadlines. Our design engineers also may have different ideas which I need to align them with customer expectations so I really need to have some technical knowledge. I will have to renegotiate new deadlines to avoid penalty. Just like one of the major auto customer suddenly decided to change a related part from another supplier and it affected our development. The original DFM didn't work anymore and we had to restart many activities setting us back 2 gates which is about 6-9 months of wasted efforts. So I had to negotiate with legal and product management on compensation from the customer that was pre-agreed in our master service agreement with customer and reset the new deadlines.

It's a very challenging job of communication and coordination with a global team and customer under pressing schedule. No one day is alike with another.

This is solid project management work my friend.

Really project management. You must have a master degree to be able to do that.

I hope I have been solid enough. Was lucky to get the right exposure when I was younger, grabbed the opportunity and worked hard, learnt from mistakes made, got my PMP and did my best for the job.

No I don't. I'm just a diploma holder with loads of experience.

Oh ya. MNC look at experience. Can you share how is it like to be a project engineer in a MNC?

Wow, not expecting to get such a response.
If you are referring to general feeling, I can't comment about what I have never been through but in general, I can say that it is competitive and fast paced but rewarding. Challenging with many things to learn because of the global exposure. Not the type of role for the lazy and self entitled.

That roughly sums it all. My experience with the PMs there is they were always at meetings but nothing positive or productive came out of it and its final verdict is 99% the prerogative of the development teams to handle the problems themselves. Even if 1% successful was also only delaying the deadline. Those closer to the management ones will manage to wash everything off their hands and the teams below them will take the brunt of the blames.

Then the PM will miraculously be promoted in the next 1 or 2 promotion cycle.

You're are also another entitled delusional prick la.
Deadline cannot meet. Your role is just negotiate. Use mouth or email and tell customer can't meet. Havr to push back.

The person who have to meet the deadline are the people doing the actual job to rework.
Not you. Your job can be replaced by email templates. Or document template or even hell. Business process in the event when deadline cannot be met. Initiate next phase. Forms to fill...

So you think you're the big shot who managed to negotiate the deadline.
Sorry to burst your bubble. The deadline happened cause of the parts. There is nothing you can do to meet the current deadline. And customer understand that.

So you come in holding your entitled "title" that you renegotiate the deadline. As if it's your power to make the deadline come faster or later.

Let's say if there is no role like you. What happen? Product can't meet deadline. Push sck. Etc.
It's logic progression. And that's why alot of contract factor in things like this that involves fine or monetary punishment.

So sorry to burst your bubble. But it's not YOU who came up with all this. You're easily replaceable with literally anyone.

Can you replace a neurosurgeon with another one and still get the job done? No.
Pilot? No
Family doctor? Maybe. If those just give out mc.
Programmer? Maybe.
Bus driver. No.
Project engineer? Hell no.

Anyone can do your job. You can hire an actor and just act out written script of what to say..
Your job experience have no substance to it.

It's the team of people behind you that do the work.
Not you.

So. Yep. You're just as dispensable as any so called project engineer out there.

The MNC engineer also described the same thing what.
He also depended on this global team to deliver.

Basically all this "project engineer or project manager" role are just extra only la.
Example bus interchange got bus driver going to busses to drive bus. Actual work.

And you have bus warden or crowd control just stand there to manage crowd.
When it's crowded or peak hours. Got crowd control also make no difference la.

And the fact that all this extra job are dispensable and replaceable.
And project engineer are dispensable and replaceable la.

But all this so called project engineer delusional. Thinking they are the one who "manage" the project.
More like you don't have the expertise to perform an expert job so you became a generalist project engineer la.

Ask a crowd control staff to drive a bus to help move the passenger can anot? Cannot no license.
Ask them to fix the bus so it can ferry? Cannot not technician.

In short. Project engineer are just mules to run the project. There are not the "manager" cause they don't manage it.

It's like saying I'm a time manager. Cause I manage my own time.
But the fact is whether I manage my time or don't. The time will move with or without my active participation. So can I say that I'm a time manager le?

Think.

All this "project engineer" can't do actual engineering work la. Can't design. Can't code. Can't build. Can't go. Can't maintain. Can't read manual and repair. Can't do anything but use their mouth and negotiate things like deadline, or liason or meeting.. All the pointless aspect of a project

Is ST a prestigeous place to work as a grad (software)? Will I have good exit opportunities if i join?

I'm the MNC PJM.
Maybe taking a PMP will help you understand why the role of the PJM is critical.
Project charter, capex, budgetary concerns, gate clearance, buying off by various functions, alignment of expectations between customers and my team, meeting deadlines, mitigate disputes.

PJM needs to know basics of the products and services offered even though the execution is carried out by subject matter experts who have years of experience doing that. And you need to align these people to the requirements of other team members.

For example our product development creates a DFMEA for automotive customers. They create under the American AIAG methods but customer expectations are German new VDA standards which is a whole lot more complicated. I am not trained in any of these. So I had to arrange for the budget to train the team or if schedule allows, arrange for my team to join pre arranged training by corporate. Make sure the certificate is available for customer scrutiny. And do all these on time according to Gantt chart agreed with customer without blowing the budget provided by Management.

Another example, telecommunications customer who requested the DFM to be completed with their AVL that's a direct competitor to one of our division. I need to escalate this to corporate and legal to prepare for mitigation regarding patent issues, link up with the design engineers and BD and procurement to create a information matrix on what could be shared and what not so as to avoid a future patent dispute.

Another example, medical customer sent their auditor to audit our contamination control as a requirement under the ISO13485 standards. I need to work with the quality team , operations, engineering etc. to handle the audit even though it will be led by the subject matter experts, I need to stand by facts and figures as some of my projects fell under their purchasing.

I don't know what sort of PJM you deal with but I think you need to really open up.

If you have a choice, I suggest you join other places.

Engineer : Project xxx coming in soon, we don't have enough software developer for it
Boss : need how many? Currently our existing developer cannot meh?
Engineer: currently only 2 both working on 2 projects already and they can't manage already
Boss : hmm hire 1 more enuff?
Engineer : not enough la, we need like a team of 5.
Boss: 5? You crazy. I can't get approval from BU head la.
Engineer : then 3
Boss: I can only justify 1 then we see how when the project is closer.
Engineer : OK then hire an experienced developer.
Boss : expensive la. Fresh grad can la.
Engineer : fresh grad don't have experience la.
Boss : give fresh grad a chance la, also they are cheaper.. When project come in we find an experienced one. Otherwise we setup 5 developers no project come in how to justify the manpower. Cannot feed their mouth la.
Engineer : OK but if hire fresh grad management need to be aware that it will be fresh grad quality.
Boss : OK..

Hired 1 fresh grad.

Boss : how's the project update?
Engineer : fresh grad working on it.
Boss : can ask the fresh grad come see me.
Fresh grad : yeas boss?
Boss: so how's the project? When can see something? Senior management asking to see something.
Fresh grad : not yet. Still learning and settinf up framework.
Boss : need how long more?
Fresh grad : maybe 3 to 6 months?
Boss : so long? How long you worked on this project already?
Fresh grad : around 3 months.
Boss : how come so slow?
Fresh grad : I need time to learn. Got such thing call learning curve and no one is teaching me or training me.
Boss : 3 months too long la. I think we need monthly progress update now. Cause can't see anything.

Fresh grad : grumble grumble *I'm not even paid 5k* expects me to deliver senior level work.
Engineer : please la, we didn't even want to hire you. We wanted an experienced software developer cause we don't think fresh grad can do the work. Not enough time
Fresh grad : this place sucks! Time to find new job.

Fresh grad : update LinkedIn put all the fake responsibilities like "designed system A" bla bla bla while nothing real was done...
Fresh grad : throw letter.

Boss : why you resign?
Fresh grad : better opportunity.
Boss :.... Ask the engineer come in

Engineer : yes boss?
Boss : did you know fresh grad resigned?
Engineer : dunno but I already don't expect fresh grad to be able to do the work.
Boss : then how?
Engineer : hire experienced developer as replacement.
Boss : where to find?
Engineer : not my problem. You are the manager or I am?
Boss : you see the fresh grad work see can salvage what. Ask him properly handover document.
Engineer : fresh grad can you demo us the work and let us see the source coccinellids?

Fresh grad : my code is very messy now. I dunno which is latest.
Enginer: erm you don't have source code control meh?
Fresh grad : no. I just backup code.
Engineer : erm OK just pass me whatever you have and document it so I can handover it to the next fresh grad who join. But we need to see at least a prototype. Can you show us? Demo?

Fresh grad: OK
Engineer : so how is the demo? You're leaving next week already.
Fresh grad : yeah still working on the documentation.
Engineer : erm so you been working in this for total 9 months now and there is no working software? Can I say that?

Fresh grad : got some modules are working la. Not the whole software.
Engineer : can demo us?
Fresh grad : sure but takes time to setup etc. Not easy
Engineer: show us the working one then.. We just want to have a feel..

Fresh grad : OK give me some time to setup.
Engineer : how? Tomorrow your last day, we can't sign your exit clearance if we still can't see anything
Fresh grad : I swear it was working. I think I changed some code last week now not working. Still trying to figure out...
Engineer : sigh nvm la. Just pass me the documentation.
Fresh grad : here you go.
Engineer : erm. Just one page?
Fresh grad : yeah no time. Was setting up demo.
Engineer : then can see demo?
Fresh grad : yeah got some problem now can't get it to work..

Engineer : OK ty good luck for your future. Keep in touch.
Fresh grad : ty.
Engineer : delete contact and block forever.

Boss : so how?
Engineer : fresh grad pass me this. Nothing was work. Documentation was bare minimum. Basically nothing was done.
Boss: how come we let the fresh grad do nothing for 9 months.
Engineer : not my job to micro manage, I'm already busy with my existing project.
Boss : die la like this..
Engineer: already said fresh grad can't really do. Need years of experience
Boss : nvm you try to work out some demo. I'll let the senior management know that there is a change of developer and he didn't properly handover.

Engineer : huh? I don't have time to work on the demo.
Boss : just try your best.
Engineer : push to the existing fresh grad say management want him to work on the demo.

The other fresh grad : this place is so stupid.
The other fresh grad : also resign.

Engineer : get promoted cause its time to get promoted..

Fresh grad in new company : I designed xxx in my previous company ST. I am the system lead bla bla bla.
New colleague : cool story bro. Here we do things differently..
Fresh grad : impostor syndrome initiated.

After 1 year.
New company : sorry you didn't meet our expectation, your performance is below average.
Fresh grad : stupid la everyplace expects me to know everything. Never mind.
Fresh grad : update LinkedIn resume now find another job ad "senior" with 2 years of experience of non development experience.

And the lies goes on. Until the fresh grad eventually get into a non programming role and leading a team with no real development experience.

And the cycle of life repeats for a new fresh grad who joined until this "lead*
Blind leading the vision impaired.

I agree with you. Even though there are various teams to execute the technical part, the project manager is the one who drives the project. Imagine each team already has such heavy workloads from other projects, the PM is the one who keep the dates in check and keep the teams on their toes. The PMs may not know the technical side of things very well, but the soft skills involved cannot be overlooked.

One thing many people overlooked is that the PMs deal directly with their own management, as well as PMs or higher with the customers. This will set the tone for the project as well as negotiate the fairest terms for their own teams. Some horrible PMs in ST just throw their teams to their own devices and that caused the projects to go into disarray once development started.

That's why PM role are useless.
Just replace PM with Google reminder everyday trigger a notification to remind of deadline and update
A good project manager is a servant in nature.

Basically project manager is the go to guy to solve problem.
Project manager, the paint is wrong color. We need new color paint. When can we get it...

Project manager go and liase with paint distributor to figure out why the paint was wrong. Was it sent wrong. Etc. Then project manager liaise with the painter on the delivery date. Make sure everything is okay. Apologise to them etc... Buy coffee. On the day or the delivery. Make sure he is at the site and inspect the paint and verify with painters everything okay. OK now let's talk schedule...

That's is the true nature of a project manager role.

But reality is project manager have became the entitled role of I'm paid the most. I sit in my own office. Paint got problem ah? Forward email to fresh grad to find out why. Fresh grad dunno. Painter complain how to meet delivery. Project manager always away in meeting. Unreachable. Or simply don't care. Turn out the whole order was wrong. Someone ordered red instead of white.

So project manager just write email demanding someone to be answerable. Anybody but him...

See the difference?
Can't see the difference. Then like I said project manager role can be replaced by a daily todo list or a reminder la. Okaaaay.

Alot of project manager or division manager paid 10k etc. But they don't care.
So why pay an overrated project manager?

Alot of tech companies already realised this. Especially in Chinese tech companies. Those middle manager all sacks. Tech companies need tech talents. Not so called project manager.

In ST still got all this project manager. Just to be paid project manager salaries. But they don't actually serve the project like the analogy.

Basically think of it as its your own house. If you don't sort out the paint issues, you get a wrong colored house. So use all your resources, time, intelligence, contact to resolve the issue. If small issue then not worth the sweat.

Alot of project manager get access to landed property and condo la. Paint not their problem. Wrong brick not their problem. Electrical wiring not their problem.

Everyday just see them using the condo facilities like relaxing at the bar or swimming pool enjoying life while they delegate the work to their maids..

That's the project manager in todays world. And that's why we don't need so many project manager.
The way forward is project manager need to be paid lower. Like every other employee. Then every quick nobodu will want to be project manager.

How much can local uni grad earn at st kinetics after 4-5 years?

Sorry to burst your bubble.
I can summarise all your example simply as.

"got problem, I find people who can solve the problem to solve the problem"

So basically you're just a delegator.
How to test this theory?

I can run a social experiment. I prepare a handbook and give it to a student.
I ask the student to just run the steps and role play according to the book.

So chapter 1 will be like "hold kick off meeting"
Step 1: send email to participants.
Step 2: prepare slides.
Step 3: book meeting room.

Etc. I bet as long as I have that guide and book. Everyone. Anybody. Also can do your job.

Likewise if I repeat this experiment with a guide to operate on a brain.
And the student can't or don't dare to cut into a patient and operate. That is skills.

Yours..
Anybody also can do la. Doesn't justify high pay just to escalate and delegate work lol.

Give me an example of how you manage a project without some form of delegation or escalation.
None right.
Cause there you have it.
Project managers are just people who delegate work.
Can be replaced by AI who does the thinking.

In the future, machine can take over liao.
Machine can predict chess move and make best move after learning past games.
They can learn decision making to manage project.

You are replaceable.

Fresh grad is 3.5k each year increment is 3%
So after 5 years probably around 4k

Haha... Another Dumbass.

Wow I am a former ST engineer but I have never heard all these you mentioned. Good info! Makes me feel ST PM are leeches.

Yeah sounds about right. Alot of seniors who graduated 10 years ago also just hitting 4.5k etc cause their starting pay was like 3k during that time.

So amazing that fresh grad in 2021 can come out with 5k starting pay during a crisis like covid-19.
Really amazing

See a fresh grad. Tekan a fresh grad.
Basically you took 10 years to reach same level as them now

So we can expect them to have 10 years of exp.
No guidance shall be provided. Hahaha

Very sad to know that you have to endure the black sheeps of the PJMGR community.
I think you don't understand how a real PJMGR works so you have all these weird ideas.

Any role is replaceable, even CEO.

The only reason why project managers exists is because when shat happens, they want to find the single point of contact to answer.

Basically the buck stops with the PM. Similarly if 1 developer can be the single point of contact for all things related to the project, then alright we can dont need a PM.

Old Scheme:
2017 E5 3500.00 (outsauce)
2018 E5 3605.00 (outsauce)
New Scheme:
2019 E6 4500.00 (outsauce)
2020 E6 4700.00 (outsauce)
2021 E6 5180.00 (perm)

Like that ken or kennot?

Possibly 4k+

You are very lucky that your increment is quite consistent and way above some divisions where increments are < $60. The jump when converted is also quite respectable.

Fake sia.
People E5 like 4 to 5 years also don't get promoted to E6
You 2 years become E6. Joke of the century.
And my current junior E5 is also paid 4.5k you E6 also 4.5k.
ST HR is stupid one is it?

I have seen individuals who are promoted to E6 within 2 years because of massive contributions to a project. But cases like these are very rare. During my time in ST, only one person managed to do it.

I am the MNC PJM.
Yes I am also very surprised that ST PJMs don't even have the basic knowledge to get their job done. What I just mentioned like avoiding patent infringement, alignment of global standards with customers and project team, supporting other functions like audits are just very basic common knowledge of PJMs.

I can share some more examples without the sensitive info that I have dealt with as a PJM if interested.

Thank you for your insightful posting. I'm actually doing project management on a SME for medical industry. I have a question maybe you can advise a little.

I was allocated a project by the boss to create a part for installation into a bigger medical equipment (A foreign MNC) The problem is that the project went into tool manufacture because the engineering assumed customer will award us and then customer pulled out claiming because we failed their audit. We already spent some money on tooling to trial some parts but the customer refused to pay for the tooling. They claimed we did not ask them for permission to open the tooling fabrication. The tool is just a prototype tool and we only made 1 so it is not expensive but the boss is not happy about it. I know it is easy to point fingers at the engineering but I am still the project manager and have to take responsibilities. Base on your MNC experience, what do you think we could do to avoid such a problem in future?

I am the MNC PJM
Wow... Didn't expect the response to go this way.

I am not from your company so I can only try to base your question on my limited experience to provide you with answers.

Based on your question, I summarize your problem as:
"Project Engineering function produced Test Tooling for Trial without Customer approval for Tooling"
I think it will be pertinent to ask yourself some questions first.

1. Is there a defined product development process?
* 1a. What is this PDP based on? What are the gates and deliverables defined in the process? Can you share?
* 1b. Do you have a Master Service Agreement with your customer (now ex customer) signed that also covers compensation in the case of project reversal? Where is this master service agreement located in the PDP?* How often do you review the relevance of the Master Service Agreement if you use a generic one?

2. Does your process clearly defines when tooling can be fabricated?
* 2a. Which gates must be bought off by your team before your tooling can gain clearance for fabrication?
* 2b. Who are the stakeholders for this gates clearance? Does it include engineering?

3. Where did Engineering get the budget to produce that first tool for trial?
* 3a. How did engineering get approval for this budget? (You need to really look into residual budgets left over from previous projects or existing budgets from other projects within the engineering department. Did they transfer money from other projects into this project?)
* 3b. Preparing tooling needs raw materials (How did it clear procurement without question? You need to escalate if there is no multi-parties in their approval documents and get quality and corporate compliance team to step in).

Maybe answering these questions can help to provide some answers to your problem.