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Unregistered 20-04-2021 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 165985)
In a way this caused shortage of manpower for us. Management wanted degree holders but unwilling to pay. We then suggest getting experienced diploma holders. They refused. We just need engineers, not rocket scientists. Now the team running extremely thin on manpower for so many projects.

How else to pay millions and high pay to CEO and all those senior management...
The fact that covid-19 they can take 20% pay cut means they are already overpaid for doing nothing lo.

The best way is don't care la.
You come to work on time do the work then go home.

Can't meet schedule is the project manager taichi.
No manpower. Then you still volunteer to do more?
Don't be stupid la.

Cut the manager 10k pay to hire 2 fresh grad better.
This workplace is really a retirement village

Unregistered 20-04-2021 10:41 AM

This is a very interesting thread. I conducted some very interesting interviews before pertaining to the attitude about degrees and recall what some young candidates used to say.

Some young degree holder believe that his degree is the first reason why we should hire him for a senior engineer position.

Another guy left his last job without a job just because his company promoted another guy without a degree rather than him. I think I could see why.

Another youngster said he sees himself a manager in 5 years time because with a degree, that is how his career will be charted without any mention of contributions as though the promotion will come automatically.

Unregistered 20-04-2021 01:55 PM

pls lah.. degree is like toilet paper nowadays

everyone has one

dun be stupiak can or not

Unregistered 20-04-2021 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166001)
pls lah.. degree is like toilet paper nowadays

everyone has one

dun be stupiak can or not

Why so salty.
Tell your boss you want to quit to go study NUS comp science.
After 4 years you come out then ask for starting pay 5.8k based on current projection is around there.

It's much better than you whine and rant that you no degree and stuck at 3k plus pay

Unregistered 20-04-2021 04:03 PM

Hi people,

Will there usually be any Increment if an outsource contract staff convert to Perm?
Considering there is no promotion. Just Contract to Perm conversion.

Unregistered 20-04-2021 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166003)
Why so salty.
Tell your boss you want to quit to go study NUS comp science.
After 4 years you come out then ask for starting pay 5.8k based on current projection is around there.

It's much better than you whine and rant that you no degree and stuck at 3k plus pay

In MNC, we pay our non degree holder better than that, a senior engineer gets at least 5K regardless if he has a degree or not. We pay if he proves he can. We promote base on performance, not if you have a degree or not.
I can relate to some of the posts here. I still remember that hilarious interview I had with a ST staff a few years back. Don't know what DOE is, cannot even explain how to use a DFMEA or DMAIC. No knowledge about product development roadmap, almost zero knowledge of the products the role needs to design on. He has this very weird idea that promotions and incentives are tied to his paper qualifications. I don't know why did the agency even sent him to us. Then we asked him why we should hire him. And some of you might have guessed, "Because I have a degree".
My other colleague told him that it is not the degree, it is your competence.

Unregistered 20-04-2021 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166015)
Hi people,

Will there usually be any Increment if an outsource contract staff convert to Perm?
Considering there is no promotion. Just Contract to Perm conversion.

So far haven't seen this happen. All conversions I've seen come with a promotion.

Unregistered 21-04-2021 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166019)
So far haven't seen this happen. All conversions I've seen come with a promotion.

Wa so good de ah

Unregistered 21-04-2021 11:52 AM

Your value determine your pay.

You don't need degree or education.
Hell you don't even need to be a programmer.

Like that 19 yo CEO of of 25 million tech company.
He just found the company with his friends. Then hire people to do it....

Then got investor. People value the company.
So his value detemiens how much he can pay himself.

The software developer who build the product degree or not.
If he can create value and that value can earn company millions...

Ofc he's higher pay lo.

Degree is just a statement that you have managed to go thru a system of 4 years and pass thru it.
Ppl without degree is also just a statement that they didn't go thru the process..

So? Get a degree...

And whether you have degree or not.
Doesn't mean you have value.

Cause if all the first class honours will have the guts and balls to create something to sell.
They all will be rich.

Singapore is starting this culture now.
In the pass. Blame the government for making us into workforce slave

Now as more and more ppl become successful with their startup.
People will aim to be founder and own their company.

Why settle for 10k per month salary when you can potentially earn 1 million per month

Unregistered 21-04-2021 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166075)
Your value determine your pay.

You don't need degree or education.
Hell you don't even need to be a programmer.

Like that 19 yo CEO of of 25 million tech company.
He just found the company with his friends. Then hire people to do it....

Then got investor. People value the company.
So his value detemiens how much he can pay himself.

The software developer who build the product degree or not.
If he can create value and that value can earn company millions...

Ofc he's higher pay lo.

Degree is just a statement that you have managed to go thru a system of 4 years and pass thru it.
Ppl without degree is also just a statement that they didn't go thru the process..

So? Get a degree...

And whether you have degree or not.
Doesn't mean you have value.

Cause if all the first class honours will have the guts and balls to create something to sell.
They all will be rich.

Singapore is starting this culture now.
In the pass. Blame the government for making us into workforce slave

Now as more and more ppl become successful with their startup.
People will aim to be founder and own their company.

Why settle for 10k per month salary when you can potentially earn 1 million per month

So, how much you earning per month now?

Unregistered 21-04-2021 02:37 PM

Still on this topic? Seriously a waste of time.
There will always be self entitled dumbasses who believe their degree is a business class ticket to classified them as higher caste entitled to promotion and increment automatically.
Live with it. No point arguing with them. These people can only survive in ST, as long as you don't join ST, you won't have the problem of having to deal with these people. Go and read up the posts in the early parts of the thread and you will have an idea how the company is like inside.

There are also the other type of people who focus on their performance and value. Some have degree some don't but they know what they create is what defines their value. They get kicked out once they don't perform, that degree is not going to save them. These people can survive anywhere not ST. So Good news, you still have the majority of space to find work like getting into a MNC.

Unregistered 21-04-2021 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166018)
In MNC, we pay our non degree holder better than that, a senior engineer gets at least 5K regardless if he has a degree or not. We pay if he proves he can. We promote base on performance, not if you have a degree or not.
I can relate to some of the posts here. I still remember that hilarious interview I had with a ST staff a few years back. Don't know what DOE is, cannot even explain how to use a DFMEA or DMAIC. No knowledge about product development roadmap, almost zero knowledge of the products the role needs to design on. He has this very weird idea that promotions and incentives are tied to his paper qualifications. I don't know why did the agency even sent him to us. Then we asked him why we should hire him. And some of you might have guessed, "Because I have a degree".
My other colleague told him that it is not the degree, it is your competence.

This is how ST loses the competent staff, only paper qualifications matter.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166085)
This is how ST loses the competent staff, only paper qualifications matter.

Then go get the qualification

Unregistered 22-04-2021 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166149)
Then go get the qualification

I will rather leave ST.
Qualifications don't stop when I get the paper. It is only the beginning. So leaving ST is the better choice.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166153)
I will rather leave ST.
Qualifications don't stop when I get the paper. It is only the beginning. So leaving ST is the better choice.

If you're such a competent engineer already. Why is it so difficult to enrol in part time degree course and attend class and take exam? Then start your own tech company. Be the founder. Get investment and funding. Hire your own diploma engineers and be billionaire lo.

You can look up the role model poke Dyson or Elon musk

And when you have a successful company that create products and made you a fortune for your children and grandchildren so they don't have to work.
Then make sure your hiring policy is just to hire diploma.

Period.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 12:24 PM

People with degree.
Paid for uni school fee.
Attended course and lecture to learn.
Did the tutorial and labs and exercises.
Took the exam and pass... Or can't graduate.

For 4 years. With no pay...

And you want to complain that non degree should be qualified just ad much ad degree.
Just go complete your degree.
Enough said. Don't need harvard or mit.
Any private uni is fine.

Point is. If you want degree pay. Get a degree

Unregistered 22-04-2021 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166155)
If you're such a competent engineer already. Why is it so difficult to enrol in part time degree course and attend class and take exam? Then start your own tech company. Be the founder. Get investment and funding. Hire your own diploma engineers and be billionaire lo.

You can look up the role model poke Dyson or Elon musk

And when you have a successful company that create products and made you a fortune for your children and grandchildren so they don't have to work.
Then make sure your hiring policy is just to hire diploma.

Period.

I already have a degree. I just see how uncompetitive I get if I continue to stay in ST. If you like to continue your entitled mentality that you deserve to promote because you got a degree then good for you. I think critically and I don't want to be a laughing stock when I get compared with my friends from MNC whenever they talk about real knowledge, technology, exposure and experience. So ST is not for me.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166157)
I already have a degree. I just see how uncompetitive I get if I continue to stay in ST. If you like to continue your entitled mentality that you deserve to promote because you got a degree then good for you. I think critically and I don't want to be a laughing stock when I get compared with my friends from MNC whenever they talk about real knowledge, technology, exposure and experience. So ST is not for me.

You should join Dyson.
They hiring. So you have a global brand.
But UK people don't like Dyson..
So yep.
Anyway with the ST brand in your resume you can easily go into Dyson or etc.

As compared to if you worked in some tan ah kow Pte Ltd
Brand name is always good.

You got degree. Then complain about non degree...

So basically you're saying you are the incompetent degree holder and that your non degree colleagues are more knowledgable than you. And they don't want to share or teach you..

So now I see

Unregistered 22-04-2021 01:43 PM

People in ST just want to retire la.
They don't want to upgrade skill or learn new things or compete with the world best engineering.

Why? Cause work hard also don't translate to promotion or high pay.
Engineers in ST is treated like **** while the managers get promoted higher and higher and they retain the power.

In other company you don't bring in value out you go.
ST you have the connection, you come in straight away become senior manager...

And can't deliver anything. Just power trip...

Unregistered 22-04-2021 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166157)
I already have a degree. I just see how uncompetitive I get if I continue to stay in ST. If you like to continue your entitled mentality that you deserve to promote because you got a degree then good for you. I think critically and I don't want to be a laughing stock when I get compared with my friends from MNC whenever they talk about real knowledge, technology, exposure and experience. So ST is not for me.

I am the poster of 1931.
My advise for you is don't waste your time on those who self entitled dumbasses.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166169)
People in ST just want to retire la.
They don't want to upgrade skill or learn new things or compete with the world best engineering.
Why? Cause work hard also don't translate to promotion or high pay.
Engineers in ST is treated like **** while the managers get promoted higher and higher and they retain the power.
In other company you don't bring in value out you go.
ST you have the connection, you come in straight away become senior manager...
And can't deliver anything. Just power trip...

Former STE engineer here
'It is like that one lah. you have to learn to accept it. dun be a smart alec.'
When I tendered,
'you go other company can survive? what company is this? Is it stable?'
I took a paycut and went to another 2 more SME after that before I manage to join an MNC but the role I got is a downgrade because I lack experience but with good attitude and luck because they were my former customers in the SME previously whom I left a good impression. Now my pay is higher than if I stayed on in STE. I know the culture in STE sucks and full of JLB, parachutes and those who won't survive in the outside world. But just leave if you don't like the company because they won't change so no need to whine about it. I left and have no regrets.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166176)
Former STE engineer here
'It is like that one lah. you have to learn to accept it. dun be a smart alec.'
When I tendered,
'you go other company can survive? what company is this? Is it stable?'
I took a paycut and went to another 2 more SME after that before I manage to join an MNC but the role I got is a downgrade because I lack experience but with good attitude and luck because they were my former customers in the SME previously whom I left a good impression. Now my pay is higher than if I stayed on in STE. I know the culture in STE sucks and full of JLB, parachutes and those who won't survive in the outside world. But just leave if you don't like the company because they won't change so no need to whine about it. I left and have no regrets.

Like you, when I left STE I had an increment that will take years in STE to match from yearly increments. I left when I feel that my learning experiences had plateaued. One issue I see with STE is that the learning experiences are very niche. Years after I joined, I am still doing the same thing in general, with variations here and there. Then again, "niche" is a word that you cannot apply because they hardly have any real subject matter experts to consult.

When I joined the new company, although it's still a multitasking role, there are much more things to learn about, like handle projects, maintain systems, perform trials for R&D products, join project tenders, etc. These are experiences that cannot be learnt in a single engineer role in STE. You need to be a PM, engineer, marketing, etc. to experience all these.

Many of those I know who left STE joined the private sector for only a short while before going back to STE or joined public service. Coincidentally, all these people excel in their studies.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166179)
Like you, when I left STE I had an increment that will take years in STE to match from yearly increments. I left when I feel that my learning experiences had plateaued. One issue I see with STE is that the learning experiences are very niche. Years after I joined, I am still doing the same thing in general, with variations here and there. Then again, "niche" is a word that you cannot apply because they hardly have any real subject matter experts to consult.

When I joined the new company, although it's still a multitasking role, there are much more things to learn about, like handle projects, maintain systems, perform trials for R&D products, join project tenders, etc. These are experiences that cannot be learnt in a single engineer role in STE. You need to be a PM, engineer, marketing, etc. to experience all these.

Many of those I know who left STE joined the private sector for only a short while before going back to STE or joined public service. Coincidentally, all these people excel in their studies.

Niche is a nice way of putting it.
When I left STE to the SME, I could not get used to the multi tasking and pace. But slowly got used to it. When I moved to my current MNC, I could not get used to a systematic and structured management, their demand in knowledge and experience, the exposure and corporate code of conduct are all culture shock to me. The culture is very different from STE but more suitable for me. I get global exposure and learn a lot of things. But I known people from ST being unable to adjust themselves to the pace and performance driven culture in the private sector so they returned back to STK, M or E. If you CMI in the private sector, then acknowledge it and go back to ST. Really up to the individual No right or wrong.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:26 PM

After reading this thread, I am glad STE rejected all my applications as an engineer.

I am working in private sector for 9 years with a diploma and got a part time degree 2 years back.

Maybe they deem NTU NUS as the potentials instead.

Moving forward, I have managed to get offered by DSO, and shortlisted by ministries and stat boards if not for the rejection by STE.

It is a blessing in disguise indeed.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:27 PM

I left STE to pursue a higher pay in a MNC but didn't realised that the higher pay resulted in longer working hours.

Yes I'm earning more now. 300 more but I wonder does it justify the longer hours now.
Cause sometimes when I am being yelled at by customer and have to work thru the night...

I wonder is the pay worth it?
I then made a humiliating step...

I went back to STE and I realised how slack STE is.
Maybe that's why they justify the much much lower pay.

I also realised that lower pay means lower stress also

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166184)
I left STE to pursue a higher pay in a MNC but didn't realised that the higher pay resulted in longer working hours.

Yes I'm earning more now. 300 more but I wonder does it justify the longer hours now.
Cause sometimes when I am being yelled at by customer and have to work thru the night...

I wonder is the pay worth it?
I then made a humiliating step...

I went back to STE and I realised how slack STE is.
Maybe that's why they justify the much much lower pay.

I also realised that lower pay means lower stress also

This ultimately depends on what you want. DO you want to keep improving and develop yourself?

When a job is too slack for me, I will feel bored and wasting my life. Thus, I have to make a decision whether to have a not so slack job while learning at the same time or to have a slack job and be stagnant forever.

I won't think $300 extra doesn't justify the extra work. I would think that this extra actually lets me do things that are new to my ex job and this is the value added.

Yes meeting difficult customers sucks, but to think it from another perspective, it actually teaches you how to deal with different people. It builds up your skills and that is a soft skills not obtainable easily.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166182)
Niche is a nice way of putting it.
When I left STE to the SME, I could not get used to the multi tasking and pace. But slowly got used to it. When I moved to my current MNC, I could not get used to a systematic and structured management, their demand in knowledge and experience, the exposure and corporate code of conduct are all culture shock to me. The culture is very different from STE but more suitable for me. I get global exposure and learn a lot of things. But I known people from ST being unable to adjust themselves to the pace and performance driven culture in the private sector so they returned back to STK, M or E. If you CMI in the private sector, then acknowledge it and go back to ST. Really up to the individual No right or wrong.

Yes, I do think that anyone in any SME will learn more than inside STE in the same period of time.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166184)
I left STE to pursue a higher pay in a MNC but didn't realised that the higher pay resulted in longer working hours.

Yes I'm earning more now. 300 more but I wonder does it justify the longer hours now.
Cause sometimes when I am being yelled at by customer and have to work thru the night...

I wonder is the pay worth it?
I then made a humiliating step...

I went back to STE and I realised how slack STE is.
Maybe that's why they justify the much much lower pay.

I also realised that lower pay means lower stress also

Not all divisions in STE has work-life balances though. Some need to work through the night as well.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166193)
Yes, I do think that anyone in any SME will learn more than inside STE in the same period of time.

But I learn most in MNC.
Except that MNC culture is not for everyone. Too global, too competitive, too fast. So those who cannot take it have to go. That's why we have a global community in this company. But those who can take it can continue getting the better rewards.
Like the other poster who mentioned how slack STE is, that's why the pay is lower.

Unregistered 22-04-2021 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166184)
I left STE to pursue a higher pay in a MNC but didn't realised that the higher pay resulted in longer working hours.

Yes I'm earning more now. 300 more but I wonder does it justify the longer hours now.
Cause sometimes when I am being yelled at by customer and have to work thru the night...

I wonder is the pay worth it?
I then made a humiliating step...

I went back to STE and I realised how slack STE is.
Maybe that's why they justify the much much lower pay.

I also realised that lower pay means lower stress also


when you jump to another company, make sure it is worth the jump.
300 is not worth the jump.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166208)
when you jump to another company, make sure it is worth the jump.
300 is not worth the jump.

Eh fark you la.
When I was in ST increment was like 130 plus.
That's 2 years pay jump smart ass

Unregistered 23-04-2021 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166255)
Eh fark you la.
When I was in ST increment was like 130 plus.
That's 2 years pay jump smart ass

Wah... You what level? That is 4 for me in ST.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166261)
Wah... You what level? That is 4 for me in ST.

I E5 project engineer.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166261)
Wah... You what level? That is 4 for me in ST.

Non degree holder?
I average out a 210/year of increment in an MNC and I am not even a degree holder.
You need to move.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166272)
Non degree holder?
I average out a 210/year of increment in an MNC and I am not even a degree holder.
You need to move.

In recent years the average increment that I know is less than 2%.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166273)
In recent years the average increment that I know is less than 2%.

Is it a flat rate? Or depend on rank? Less than 2% is really bad.
In MNC it depends on individual and company performance. I have seen those who got 0% because of losses and poor performance. My highest was 10% that year we made decent profits in our region. The factor deciding is never by paper qualifications.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166288)
Is it a flat rate? Or depend on rank? Less than 2% is really bad.
In MNC it depends on individual and company performance. I have seen those who got 0% because of losses and poor performance. My highest was 10% that year we made decent profits in our region. The factor deciding is never by paper qualifications.

Not a flat rate, but it's in the region of 1 to 2%. The best I got was 4% but that was under the old management. Under the new management, the percentage is weird. I can have increment percentage up to 2 decimal points. I had 1.76% and my colleagues had 1.68% and 1.83%.

Many who entered STE the same time as me also had left, even if they were promoted and converted to perm. The pay package wasn't the only problem, but definitely was part of the bigger issue.

Since the appraisal gradings are ultimately decided / approved by the senior management, there's only so much things a supervisor can sell for this subordinate.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166255)
Eh fark you la.
When I was in ST increment was like 130 plus.
That's 2 years pay jump smart ass

Not sure if you are the one that complained in the new company and went back to ST.
If you think it is good, then donít complained.

Unregistered 23-04-2021 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166255)
Eh fark you la.
When I was in ST increment was like 130 plus.
That's 2 years pay jump smart ass

2 years pay jump but workload increased 2 times, will you still want?
Please think before you write this post.

Smart ass

Unregistered 23-04-2021 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 166297)
2 years pay jump but workload increased 2 times, will you still want?
Please think before you write this post.

Smart ass

MNCs are pools of competition. You can always exit and go back to ST if you think you cannot make it. There are plenty of others around the globe ready to replace you. You being unable to do it doesn't mean others cannot. Many others mitigated overloading and survived. Free market and no free lunch.


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