Maids should earn 3k
F&B industry should also earn 4k
Food should also increase by market rate price to 10 dollars per meal.
Drinks should be 5 dollars each.

that should be the going rate for those big unicorns and mncs flushed with cash in comp sci

Salary aside.
How is the work in ST like?
Like what are the good and bad points about working there?

I am thinking of applying to ST Electronics as a fresh grad when the opportunity arises.

As a fresh grad, you learn a lot but after 2-3 years it becomes quite stagnant, most fresh grads leave after like 2 years or so. Heavy management hierarchy as many mentioned here. Low salary increment, that's why the fresh grads leave. A lot of benefits taken away from new joiners, no AWS in new salary scheme and below market rate basic salary.

Work hours quite flexible depending on department. Good for fresh grad but not good if you stay more than 2-3 years.

Can someone explain what does "external office politics by dsta" mean? ST takes a lot of projects from dsta but is it nice working with dsta? Can someone share experiences and review on working with dsta?

Want to find out about dsta , can go to dsta thread and ask

5k monthly starting for tech role decent? Serious.

Local uni DSTA/DSO, 5k monthly is quite average these days. The better ones get higher starting pay.

Yes, tech roles. not procurement type of roles

hmm 5k average for tech? 2019 NUS GES say comp sci 5k gross for median and 5.6k for 75th percentile. Are those ppl considered average?

Anyway, asking for STE and not striking toto equivalent roles. I hear work life balance quite good so I got time for other pursuits.

You local uni? you may get a 4k-4.5k offer from ST tech role, yes good work life balance but depending on project and superior

private uni much lower salary. fresh grad

Is that sum inclusive of bonuses/aws?

Salary is dependent on whether you are a local/private grad
On top of that, your honours classification plays a part (heard first class gets paid a lot more)
“AWS” is factored in your salary.
Bonus depends on your performance.

Yes, there is a vast discrepancy between the salary in ST, even if your degree is not related and you are a first-class fresh with a non-tech background, you are still paid a lot higher than another fresher with tech degree (without first-class/ or private U).

Nonsense.
I'm M2 principal engineer been with the company for 12 years
This is the conversation I have with my senior manager division head who been here for 18 years

Boss: this year the candidate all asking price so high.
Me: yes.
Boss: you sure want to hire this guy? He first class honours. They won't stay here long. Will jump to dsta or anything.. Use us as stepping stone. Also very hard to manage fch.
Me: nod.
Boss : this one how? Second upper also can. Asking price also lower. Take this la. Then we can groom him.
Me: okay

Any insights whether pay is calculated/decided by BU/department or by HR? Since you’re
12 years in the company.

Engineer - E5
Senior engineer - E6
Asst Principal Engineer - M1
Asst Principal Engineer - M2
Principal Engineer - M3
Senior Principal Engineer - M4
Deputy Chief Engineer - M5
Chief Engineer - M6

It seem that your title for M2 is "INFLATED" to Principal Engineer which support to be M3, hence short changed..

Ever ask yourself why they will jump? u think only fch will jump and second upper won't jump? what kind of management mentally is that? must be some problem with the company right? thats why people jump? never identify root of problem and solve it, yet hoping hiring second upper will solve the problem. what kind of lousy management strategy is this?

Ever heard of people leave managers not companies? is because of your lousy management skills that's why people are leaving. don't blame people for asking high price and leaving. blame yourself for cannot manage them well and yet want to be a manager.

Very hard to manage fch? i bet you guys are just afraid of them overtaking you. Can't manage well and CMI technical skills. seen a FCH 6 years M2, exactly half of your time.

upgrade your management skills and technical skills. don't go the cheaper and easier way out. that's why ST been losing so much talents nowadays.

so true indeed

Sorry hor my division engineers is capped at M2.
M3 are managers.
M4 are senior managers.
They don't value engineers. Above M2
Division politics.

The other kind is all project managers.
They even come up with their own term.
E5 - project manager
E6 - senior project manager
M1 - operations manager
M2 - assistant manager
M3 - manager
M4 - senior manager.

So because of this culture. All the engineers quit.
Only those stay long long end up manager. Cause all road to promotion leads to management.

Ask the long history of this division and their original founders. Still here. Haven't left since the inception of this division 20 years ago

If you run a division for 20 years and all the long term loyal staff are all 2nd lower or average workers...
You introduce a bunch of first class honours into the midst... Your division will lose its identity

So FCH should just go join those brand names la. Leave ST to all the retiree.

Don't need talent if you can outsource the work to subcontractors dear.
It's like... Why plant your own rice if you can buy from supplier, why cook the rice or hire world class chef of you can outsource to cheaper cooks.

We just provide the restaurant, customer the rest can outsource... That's how ST operates

Then better give outsource staff working in-house with better resources. It's ridiculous that only perm staff gets newer laptops or computers to the point even the management and admins have more powerful machines then developers.

Management still got the cheek to ask why the development teams so slow to compile source codes.

Cause ST is not a software company. It's a project management company haha.

Anyway real story, we gave a fresh grad data scientist a powerful machine to help compute his algorithm.
Not fast enough. We bought a server for him. He say not portable.

He want to bring his own powerful laptop but it's not allowed cause security reasons..

It's hard to mkce forward for this company if alot of the practices are backward. Its only recently can bring phone with camera. Last time can't even bring phone with camera. Need to buy another cheaper lousier non camera phone for work.

But now every phone got camera so no choice.

Different company different style. Sme give desktop dial monikertor but have to come to work. WFH have to use own PC.
Other company got tech refresh every few 5 years. But those are bulks. In one other company I have experienced tech refresh twice. And alot of people are like "why new people get new laptop, old people stuck with old laptop"

And then there is ST. Won't upgrade until the old one cannot be used and become obsolete.
Don't have free money to waste to upgrade non essential.

Yes software people are non essential. Why? Cause can outsource to third party company to do the coding. ST just provide the consultantcy

Excuse me, simi need to be portable? His laptop more powerful? You find me which university/company got "more powerful than server but as portable as laptop" PCs? More likely than not, your data not even portable. Anybody with an ounce of knowledge on computing at scale will call out your nonsense. Which data scientist will want to replace a compute cluster with his laptop?

You sound like a senior when you refer to that fresh grad. No wonder they might as well pay more for a fresh grad instead...

If the management was willing to outsource, it would have solved the problem. But no, instead of outsourcing the easy way as you said, all they did was to pile more responsibilities with a cut in manpower.

ST is really an inflated title company.

The principal engineer I worked with (I'm from dsta) has changed his email title become director now.

I congratulated him and ask him who is his replacement as principal engineer now.
He say its still him. The title change means nothing lol.

And here I am... Thinking he promoted to director have a team of staff to direct now. But I still get to liase with him. Quite sad cause I'm still principal engineer in dsta. Maybe I should join ST and be director?

Can confirm. Seems like some principal engineer / senior principal engineer now title changed to AVP or VP or director...

Doesn't seem to be any new senior principal engineer... Maybe they phasing out that role?

Tldr the management level title keep getting inflated and higher.
But the bottom one doesn't go up.

Seems like the bottom one now almost everyone is assistant principal engineer.
Onlh those outsource / fresh grad are project engineer. Senior engineer.

Quite sad

Hello there. Didn't know you are here. Let's catch up over coffee at your canteen someday.

Director eat with director la.
Small fry principal engineer cannot sit same table with director

Very true. Actually in ST, staff grades are usually tagged to engineer rank. Principal Engineer is M2, Senior PE is M3 but senior managers and managers are M3 and M2 respectively.

So ironically, if a project needs a lead engineer, the M2/3 is the lead, but need manager, the M2/3 can also double as the manager for his own or other projects.

Director so free. Office hours surfing forums and commenting in forums. Use go DSTA for meeting as excuses then go meet people at canteen to catch up.

Typically management in ST. Complete retirement mode. Please wake up your idea and contribute to the company.

But that's the job of the director what.
High paid so they can funnel those money to buy customer / staff coffee or tea...

An earlier post say M1 got 2 levels.
Principal engineer is M3..

This means... The grade the rank all gray area one. No standard one.
This division do it like this. That division do it the other way.

So what's the use of a HR if the HR can't control
Like this can power trip and play favoritism.

No check and balance. Can jump from principal engineer to director.
Its clear favoritism.

Reorg mah. Its also the boss upthere who choose who lead which division etc.
It's all politics one.

Don't be jealous.

Jealous for what.
Engineers also can take tea break during office hours what.

My team we go breakfast until 930 am team bonding then only start work around 10 am.
Then do some work abit. Then lunch liao.

We also go long lunch. In big group so nobody can question.

You think director only can relax ah.
Engineers paid less. We get to relax more

Think about it.

Very true. I knew one Senior PE suddenly parachute to become division manager. It wasn't even announced.

Lol
I working from home bro. Can whole day on break also can lo.
Poor engineers and directors in ST.

Boo hoo

It's very weird that a technical person aka senior principal engineer will become division manager...
Like this why don't managers become tech lead then?

Manager job like very easy. Anybody also can do. Tech or non tech. It's a very odd job

That's why evry Tom dick and Harry want to be managers mah

There are tech leads who double up as appointed team managers. In name they are managers but they also do engineer work, e.g. software / hardware development.

That's why I agree that that grade and appointments are grey area. M3 can be a engineer still but E5/6 can be a manager. It all doesn't add up. Grade, appointment and pay doesn't necessary add up.

I was E5 and was referenced as a "manager" due to my job scope. I suppose it will make it nicer sounding to customers. Yet, a M2/3 probably earning 2 to 3 times my pay was just a APE or PE doing development work.

Yes, it sounds weird. But that's how it worked at least when I was there.