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  #2061 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:22 PM
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I'm the MNC PJM.
Maybe taking a PMP will help you understand why the role of the PJM is critical.
Project charter, capex, budgetary concerns, gate clearance, buying off by various functions, alignment of expectations between customers and my team, meeting deadlines, mitigate disputes.

PJM needs to know basics of the products and services offered even though the execution is carried out by subject matter experts who have years of experience doing that. And you need to align these people to the requirements of other team members.

For example our product development creates a DFMEA for automotive customers. They create under the American AIAG methods but customer expectations are German new VDA standards which is a whole lot more complicated. I am not trained in any of these. So I had to arrange for the budget to train the team or if schedule allows, arrange for my team to join pre arranged training by corporate. Make sure the certificate is available for customer scrutiny. And do all these on time according to Gantt chart agreed with customer without blowing the budget provided by Management.

Another example, telecommunications customer who requested the DFM to be completed with their AVL that's a direct competitor to one of our division. I need to escalate this to corporate and legal to prepare for mitigation regarding patent issues, link up with the design engineers and BD and procurement to create a information matrix on what could be shared and what not so as to avoid a future patent dispute.

Another example, medical customer sent their auditor to audit our contamination control as a requirement under the ISO13485 standards. I need to work with the quality team , operations, engineering etc. to handle the audit even though it will be led by the subject matter experts, I need to stand by facts and figures as some of my projects fell under their purchasing.

I don't know what sort of PJM you deal with but I think you need to really open up.
I agree with you. Even though there are various teams to execute the technical part, the project manager is the one who drives the project. Imagine each team already has such heavy workloads from other projects, the PM is the one who keep the dates in check and keep the teams on their toes. The PMs may not know the technical side of things very well, but the soft skills involved cannot be overlooked.

One thing many people overlooked is that the PMs deal directly with their own management, as well as PMs or higher with the customers. This will set the tone for the project as well as negotiate the fairest terms for their own teams. Some horrible PMs in ST just throw their teams to their own devices and that caused the projects to go into disarray once development started.

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  #2062 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:42 PM
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I agree with you. Even though there are various teams to execute the technical part, the project manager is the one who drives the project. Imagine each team already has such heavy workloads from other projects, the PM is the one who keep the dates in check and keep the teams on their toes. The PMs may not know the technical side of things very well, but the soft skills involved cannot be overlooked.

One thing many people overlooked is that the PMs deal directly with their own management, as well as PMs or higher with the customers. This will set the tone for the project as well as negotiate the fairest terms for their own teams. Some horrible PMs in ST just throw their teams to their own devices and that caused the projects to go into disarray once development started.
That's why PM role are useless.
Just replace PM with Google reminder everyday trigger a notification to remind of deadline and update
A good project manager is a servant in nature.

Basically project manager is the go to guy to solve problem.
Project manager, the paint is wrong color. We need new color paint. When can we get it...

Project manager go and liase with paint distributor to figure out why the paint was wrong. Was it sent wrong. Etc. Then project manager liaise with the painter on the delivery date. Make sure everything is okay. Apologise to them etc... Buy coffee. On the day or the delivery. Make sure he is at the site and inspect the paint and verify with painters everything okay. OK now let's talk schedule...

That's is the true nature of a project manager role.

But reality is project manager have became the entitled role of I'm paid the most. I sit in my own office. Paint got problem ah? Forward email to fresh grad to find out why. Fresh grad dunno. Painter complain how to meet delivery. Project manager always away in meeting. Unreachable. Or simply don't care. Turn out the whole order was wrong. Someone ordered red instead of white.

So project manager just write email demanding someone to be answerable. Anybody but him...

See the difference?
Can't see the difference. Then like I said project manager role can be replaced by a daily todo list or a reminder la. Okaaaay.

Alot of project manager or division manager paid 10k etc. But they don't care.
So why pay an overrated project manager?

Alot of tech companies already realised this. Especially in Chinese tech companies. Those middle manager all sacks. Tech companies need tech talents. Not so called project manager.

In ST still got all this project manager. Just to be paid project manager salaries. But they don't actually serve the project like the analogy.

Basically think of it as its your own house. If you don't sort out the paint issues, you get a wrong colored house. So use all your resources, time, intelligence, contact to resolve the issue. If small issue then not worth the sweat.

Alot of project manager get access to landed property and condo la. Paint not their problem. Wrong brick not their problem. Electrical wiring not their problem.

Everyday just see them using the condo facilities like relaxing at the bar or swimming pool enjoying life while they delegate the work to their maids..

That's the project manager in todays world. And that's why we don't need so many project manager.
The way forward is project manager need to be paid lower. Like every other employee. Then every quick nobodu will want to be project manager.

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  #2063 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:50 PM
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How much can local uni grad earn at st kinetics after 4-5 years?

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  #2064 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm the MNC PJM.
Maybe taking a PMP will help you understand why the role of the PJM is critical.
Project charter, capex, budgetary concerns, gate clearance, buying off by various functions, alignment of expectations between customers and my team, meeting deadlines, mitigate disputes.

PJM needs to know basics of the products and services offered even though the execution is carried out by subject matter experts who have years of experience doing that. And you need to align these people to the requirements of other team members.

For example our product development creates a DFMEA for automotive customers. They create under the American AIAG methods but customer expectations are German new VDA standards which is a whole lot more complicated. I am not trained in any of these. So I had to arrange for the budget to train the team or if schedule allows, arrange for my team to join pre arranged training by corporate. Make sure the certificate is available for customer scrutiny. And do all these on time according to Gantt chart agreed with customer without blowing the budget provided by Management.

Another example, telecommunications customer who requested the DFM to be completed with their AVL that's a direct competitor to one of our division. I need to escalate this to corporate and legal to prepare for mitigation regarding patent issues, link up with the design engineers and BD and procurement to create a information matrix on what could be shared and what not so as to avoid a future patent dispute.

Another example, medical customer sent their auditor to audit our contamination control as a requirement under the ISO13485 standards. I need to work with the quality team , operations, engineering etc. to handle the audit even though it will be led by the subject matter experts, I need to stand by facts and figures as some of my projects fell under their purchasing.

I don't know what sort of PJM you deal with but I think you need to really open up.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
I can summarise all your example simply as.

"got problem, I find people who can solve the problem to solve the problem"

So basically you're just a delegator.
How to test this theory?

I can run a social experiment. I prepare a handbook and give it to a student.
I ask the student to just run the steps and role play according to the book.

So chapter 1 will be like "hold kick off meeting"
Step 1: send email to participants.
Step 2: prepare slides.
Step 3: book meeting room.

Etc. I bet as long as I have that guide and book. Everyone. Anybody. Also can do your job.

Likewise if I repeat this experiment with a guide to operate on a brain.
And the student can't or don't dare to cut into a patient and operate. That is skills.

Yours..
Anybody also can do la. Doesn't justify high pay just to escalate and delegate work lol.

Give me an example of how you manage a project without some form of delegation or escalation.
None right.
Cause there you have it.
Project managers are just people who delegate work.
Can be replaced by AI who does the thinking.

In the future, machine can take over liao.
Machine can predict chess move and make best move after learning past games.
They can learn decision making to manage project.

You are replaceable.
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  #2065 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How much can local uni grad earn at st kinetics after 4-5 years?
Fresh grad is 3.5k each year increment is 3%
So after 5 years probably around 4k
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  #2066 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble.
I can summarise all your example simply as.

"got problem, I find people who can solve the problem to solve the problem"

So basically you're just a delegator.
How to test this theory?

I can run a social experiment. I prepare a handbook and give it to a student.
I ask the student to just run the steps and role play according to the book.

So chapter 1 will be like "hold kick off meeting"
Step 1: send email to participants.
Step 2: prepare slides.
Step 3: book meeting room.

Etc. I bet as long as I have that guide and book. Everyone. Anybody. Also can do your job.

Likewise if I repeat this experiment with a guide to operate on a brain.
And the student can't or don't dare to cut into a patient and operate. That is skills.

Yours..
Anybody also can do la. Doesn't justify high pay just to escalate and delegate work lol.

Give me an example of how you manage a project without some form of delegation or escalation.
None right.
Cause there you have it.
Project managers are just people who delegate work.
Can be replaced by AI who does the thinking.

In the future, machine can take over liao.
Machine can predict chess move and make best move after learning past games.
They can learn decision making to manage project.

You are replaceable.
Haha... Another Dumbass.
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  #2067 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm the MNC PJM.
Maybe taking a PMP will help you understand why the role of the PJM is critical.
Project charter, capex, budgetary concerns, gate clearance, buying off by various functions, alignment of expectations between customers and my team, meeting deadlines, mitigate disputes.

PJM needs to know basics of the products and services offered even though the execution is carried out by subject matter experts who have years of experience doing that. And you need to align these people to the requirements of other team members.

For example our product development creates a DFMEA for automotive customers. They create under the American AIAG methods but customer expectations are German new VDA standards which is a whole lot more complicated. I am not trained in any of these. So I had to arrange for the budget to train the team or if schedule allows, arrange for my team to join pre arranged training by corporate. Make sure the certificate is available for customer scrutiny. And do all these on time according to Gantt chart agreed with customer without blowing the budget provided by Management.

Another example, telecommunications customer who requested the DFM to be completed with their AVL that's a direct competitor to one of our division. I need to escalate this to corporate and legal to prepare for mitigation regarding patent issues, link up with the design engineers and BD and procurement to create a information matrix on what could be shared and what not so as to avoid a future patent dispute.

Another example, medical customer sent their auditor to audit our contamination control as a requirement under the ISO13485 standards. I need to work with the quality team , operations, engineering etc. to handle the audit even though it will be led by the subject matter experts, I need to stand by facts and figures as some of my projects fell under their purchasing.

I don't know what sort of PJM you deal with but I think you need to really open up.
Wow I am a former ST engineer but I have never heard all these you mentioned. Good info! Makes me feel ST PM are leeches.
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  #2068 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:32 PM
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Fresh grad is 3.5k each year increment is 3%
So after 5 years probably around 4k
Yeah sounds about right. Alot of seniors who graduated 10 years ago also just hitting 4.5k etc cause their starting pay was like 3k during that time.

So amazing that fresh grad in 2021 can come out with 5k starting pay during a crisis like covid-19.
Really amazing
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  #2069 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Yeah sounds about right. Alot of seniors who graduated 10 years ago also just hitting 4.5k etc cause their starting pay was like 3k during that time.

So amazing that fresh grad in 2021 can come out with 5k starting pay during a crisis like covid-19.
Really amazing
See a fresh grad. Tekan a fresh grad.
Basically you took 10 years to reach same level as them now

So we can expect them to have 10 years of exp.
No guidance shall be provided. Hahaha
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  #2070 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
That's why PM role are useless.
Just replace PM with Google reminder everyday trigger a notification to remind of deadline and update
A good project manager is a servant in nature.

Basically project manager is the go to guy to solve problem.
Project manager, the paint is wrong color. We need new color paint. When can we get it...

Project manager go and liase with paint distributor to figure out why the paint was wrong. Was it sent wrong. Etc. Then project manager liaise with the painter on the delivery date. Make sure everything is okay. Apologise to them etc... Buy coffee. On the day or the delivery. Make sure he is at the site and inspect the paint and verify with painters everything okay. OK now let's talk schedule...

That's is the true nature of a project manager role.

But reality is project manager have became the entitled role of I'm paid the most. I sit in my own office. Paint got problem ah? Forward email to fresh grad to find out why. Fresh grad dunno. Painter complain how to meet delivery. Project manager always away in meeting. Unreachable. Or simply don't care. Turn out the whole order was wrong. Someone ordered red instead of white.

So project manager just write email demanding someone to be answerable. Anybody but him...

See the difference?
Can't see the difference. Then like I said project manager role can be replaced by a daily todo list or a reminder la. Okaaaay.

Alot of project manager or division manager paid 10k etc. But they don't care.
So why pay an overrated project manager?

Alot of tech companies already realised this. Especially in Chinese tech companies. Those middle manager all sacks. Tech companies need tech talents. Not so called project manager.

In ST still got all this project manager. Just to be paid project manager salaries. But they don't actually serve the project like the analogy.

Basically think of it as its your own house. If you don't sort out the paint issues, you get a wrong colored house. So use all your resources, time, intelligence, contact to resolve the issue. If small issue then not worth the sweat.

Alot of project manager get access to landed property and condo la. Paint not their problem. Wrong brick not their problem. Electrical wiring not their problem.

Everyday just see them using the condo facilities like relaxing at the bar or swimming pool enjoying life while they delegate the work to their maids..

That's the project manager in todays world. And that's why we don't need so many project manager.
The way forward is project manager need to be paid lower. Like every other employee. Then every quick nobodu will want to be project manager.
Very sad to know that you have to endure the black sheeps of the PJMGR community.
I think you don't understand how a real PJMGR works so you have all these weird ideas.
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