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Unregistered 06-03-2016 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80851)
Is there any career path in ST Engineering / ST Electronics if one does not aspire to be a project manager?

On average, how much does it pay for a local Singaporean software engineer with 7 years relevant experience?

Probably somewhere in the region of 7 to 9k if the experience is relevant.

Unregistered 06-03-2016 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80859)
Probably somewhere in the region of 7 to 9k if the experience is relevant.

For an average staff under ST engineering with 7 years exp,

you will be getting approx 4.5k-4.8k after 7 years of annual increment + 2 promotions.

I know it sux, but this is reality

Unregistered 07-03-2016 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80862)
For an average staff under ST engineering with 7 years exp,

you will be getting approx 4.5k-4.8k after 7 years of annual increment + 2 promotions.

I know it sux, but this is reality

ST Engineering can be quite huge, comparing Aerospace, Marine, Kinetics and Electronics maybe quite different?

Unregistered 09-03-2016 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80862)
For an average staff under ST engineering with 7 years exp,

you will be getting approx 4.5k-4.8k after 7 years of annual increment + 2 promotions.

I know it sux, but this is reality

Any career path in ST? Do all engineers eventually have to move up to project management role in their mid 30s or 40s? Or they have technical track to stay in?

Unregistered 31-03-2016 09:23 AM

Job nature and environment
 
Working in ST Engineering or ST Electronics, is it fast paced n high stress?
Do they demand immediate answers or solutions on the same day within hours?

Unregistered 06-04-2016 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 80862)
For an average staff under ST engineering with 7 years exp,

you will be getting approx 4.5k-4.8k after 7 years of annual increment + 2 promotions.

I know it sux, but this is reality

Ha ha ha. You sure or not? I once went for an interview in 2014 as software engineer. 6 years of relevant experience.

HR asked me what my expected salary. Asked for $5,000. She was stunned, then asked if I could go lower.
Asked for $4,800. She said still too high.
Asked for $4,500. She still asked if I could go lower.
I told her this is the lowest I could go.

Just went through the interview nonetheless but know she couldn't match my lowest expectation. No salary discussion but more of the project work.

Looks like a lowballer expecting to pay SME salary.
Couldn't even offer close to my expected salary still call me down for interview and waste my time, expecting me to give 20% discount and take pay cut?

Felt totally insulted that day. After I left thinking it would leave me alone, HR still had the cheek to call me on the phone asking if I would consider coming back for another interview with another manager/department. :mad:

DSTA engineers 6 years experience I think can reach $6,000.

Unregistered 06-04-2016 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82933)
Ha ha ha. You sure or not? I once went for an interview in 2014 as software engineer. 6 years of relevant experience.

HR asked me what my expected salary. Asked for $5,000. She was stunned, then asked if I could go lower.
Asked for $4,800. She said still too high.
Asked for $4,500. She still asked if I could go lower.
I told her this is the lowest I could go.

Just went through the interview nonetheless but know she couldn't match my lowest expectation. No salary discussion but more of the project work.

Looks like a lowballer expecting to pay SME salary.
Couldn't even offer close to my expected salary still call me down for interview and waste my time, expecting me to give 20% discount and take pay cut?

Felt totally insulted that day. After I left thinking it would leave me alone, HR still had the cheek to call me on the phone asking if I would consider coming back for another interview with another manager/department. :mad:

DSTA engineers 6 years experience I think can reach $6,000.

As far as caliber of engineering field, STE is bottom tier together with NCS. Even other local SME IT providers get better people. You can't compare DSTA with STE.

I interact with some of the STE people before and I will never hire them even for 3k no matter how much exp they boast of.

Unregistered 06-04-2016 05:05 PM

Think it is paying below 50 percentile market rate. Still proudly promise "an attractive remuneration package" for successful candidates in some of its job ads. :D

Unbelievable.

Unregistered 06-04-2016 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82940)
Think it is paying below 50 percentile market rate. Still proudly promise "an attractive remuneration package" for successful candidates in some of its job ads. :D

Unbelievable.

true, but then looking at the type of ppl who stay there i dun think they deserve 50 percentile either. both the skillset & attitude very bad compare to private sector. they are just living on gov contracts.

Unregistered 06-04-2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82938)
As far as caliber of engineering field, STE is bottom tier together with NCS. Even other local SME IT providers get better people. You can't compare DSTA with STE.

I interact with some of the STE people before and I will never hire them even for 3k no matter how much exp they boast of.

How about NCS? Is it any better in terms of salary, increments, professionalism, training opportunities, skill set?

Unregistered 06-04-2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82938)
As far as caliber of engineering field, STE is bottom tier together with NCS. Even other local SME IT providers get better people. You can't compare DSTA with STE.

I interact with some of the STE people before and I will never hire them even for 3k no matter how much exp they boast of.

agreed, DSTA engineers and STE engineers are totally different league. one is on the tip of the pyramid and one is one the bottom

Unregistered 07-04-2016 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82966)
agreed, DSTA engineers and STE engineers are totally different league. one is on the tip of the pyramid and one is one the bottom

You sure boh? Thought these 2 work closely together one. DSTA mostly manage the projects and do the design. STE takes the design and build or implement in their production facilities.

No doubt DSTA engineers are probably better, but not to the extent of heaven and earth. STE never learn the skills and tricks of DSTA engineers meh, after working with them day in day out over so many years.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 10:49 AM

dsta is only Mid tier. DSO is higher.

Logically speaking ST should pick up some skills from Dsta. But dsta only got project management skills. Np hard technical experience.

It's an intellectual thing. Both also no real skills, but dsta ppl are smarter.


Or you can also say ST people are stupid.

4.7k after 7 years is a dream. 4k more likely.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82986)
You sure boh? Thought these 2 work closely together one. DSTA mostly manage the projects and do the design. STE takes the design and build or implement in their production facilities.

No doubt DSTA engineers are probably better, but not to the extent of heaven and earth. STE never learn the skills and tricks of DSTA engineers meh, after working with them day in day out over so many years.

It's not just about opportunity and exposure, it is also about intelligence. STE people are generally just not there on the IQ, even if you give them exposure they also cannot learn much.

It is not that joining STE makes someone dumb, its the culture there just causes smart people to leave after a few months and the lousy whiners no choice stay there with badass demotivation. Vicious cycle. No youngster who has a shred of dignity, professionalism and marketability for better pay will stay there long.

My personal observation in terms of engineering is DSO tends to get good (but not top) like 75 percentile talents, DSTA average to good 50-75 percentile, SME tend to get 25-50 percentile. STE/NCS good buddies always picking up the bottom below 25 percentile calibre people.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82997)
It's not just about opportunity and exposure, it is also about intelligence. STE people are generally just not there on the IQ, even if you give them exposure they also cannot learn much.

It is not that joining STE makes someone dumb, its the culture there just causes smart people to leave after a few months and the lousy whiners no choice stay there with badass demotivation. Vicious cycle. No youngster who has a shred of dignity, professionalism and marketability for better pay will stay there long.

My personal observation in terms of engineering is DSO tends to get good (but not top) like 75 percentile talents, DSTA average to good 50-75 percentile, SME tend to get 25-50 percentile. STE/NCS good buddies always picking up the bottom below 25 percentile calibre people.

Simplified:

DSO: 1st class honours / 2nd upper local uni
DSTA: 2nd upper / 2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

Sounds about right. :D

Unregistered 07-04-2016 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82998)
Simplified:

DSO: 1st class honours / 2nd upper local uni
DSTA: 2nd upper / 2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

Sounds about right. :D

Is all that is mentioned about STE applicable to ST Kinetics and ST Aerospace? I was looking at their careers page but all house under the main ST Engineering. I was hoping that situation at Kinetics and Aerospace more positive.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82998)
Simplified:

DSO: 1st class honours / 2nd upper local uni
DSTA: 2nd upper / 2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

Sounds about right. :D

I think so cauz I'm not too familiar with recruitment and academics. But in general I think the difference is more than just type of degree - the attitude, competency and people mgt skill is also not there.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83004)
Is all that is mentioned about STE applicable to ST Kinetics and ST Aerospace? I was looking at their careers page but all house under the main ST Engineering. I was hoping that situation at Kinetics and Aerospace more positive.

It's the same as far as I can tell. The culture is the main problem in all STE subsidiaries. The typical hierarchy across all subsidiaries look like this:

Analyst/Jr Mgt - High turnover, good ones leave lousy ones stay
Mid Mgt - Mostly 40-50 yo uncles, low performance, behind times and got there by length of service or retirement charity job for WOSE or jr officers
Snr Mgt - Parachute from SAF senior officers, other GLC / stat board scholars

This sort of culture is a turn off for good performers no matter which dept you join.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 04:44 PM

I see some STE job ads looking for experienced candidates: 3 year experience about 3k to 4k max.

5 years experience can reach 4.5k?

Unregistered 07-04-2016 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83017)
I see some STE job ads looking for experienced candidates: 3 year experience about 3k to 4k max.

5 years experience can reach 4.5k?

You will be lucky to get even 4k. Some people take 10 years to hit 4k+

Unregistered 07-04-2016 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83018)
You will be lucky to get even 4k. Some people take 10 years to hit 4k+

You ex-STE engineer?

Any STE engineer can confirm?

Unregistered 07-04-2016 05:49 PM

we already tell you no future liao, you still die die dun believe.

You join with a starting pay of 3k.

Every year, your increment is 3%.

You get promoted at about the 5th year mark, which increases your pay by another 3% - so that year you get 6% increment.

Please calculate yourself how much you get at the 5th year mark.

For your second promotion = wait long long. Maybe in 8 years.

Aerospace is slightly better than the rest. That is because they OT a lot and they do get some type of OT pay. Kinetics are known for being particularly bad. But then at ST level, "who better than who" is ready stupid comparison. Is like you get 41 marks then hao lian to the other guy who got 37 marks. Both are idiots.

Unregistered 07-04-2016 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83023)
we already tell you no future liao, you still die die dun believe.

You join with a starting pay of 3k.

Every year, your increment is 3%.

You get promoted at about the 5th year mark, which increases your pay by another 3% - so that year you get 6% increment.

Please calculate yourself how much you get at the 5th year mark.

For your second promotion = wait long long. Maybe in 8 years.

Aerospace is slightly better than the rest. That is because they OT a lot and they do get some type of OT pay. Kinetics are known for being particularly bad. But then at ST level, "who better than who" is ready stupid comparison. Is like you get 41 marks then hao lian to the other guy who got 37 marks. Both are idiots.

You capture it quite accurately. Only small nit pick is actually in a typical promotion total increase is ~8%. So more like 3% normal increase + 5% promotion increase.

Not that this pathetic amount makes any difference, but just want to be accurate.

Most of the oldies manager there are only getting 5k+, young punks with a few years exp most likely will get offered 3.5k.

Unregistered 08-04-2016 12:58 AM

[QUOTE=Unregistered;82998]Simplified:

DSO: 1st class honours / 2nd upper local uni
DSTA: 2nd upper / 2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

Sounds about right. :D[/QUOTE

im from NTU and so far i still haven't heard of anyone got in DSTA with second lower. I know dsta hire 2nd lower but it quite rare and those who got hired have working experience. Same goes to DSO, i do know people got in with second lower. DSO and DSTA is around the same level i think.

Unregistered 08-04-2016 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82998)
Simplified:

DSO: 1st class honours / 2nd upper local uni
DSTA: 2nd upper / 2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

Sounds about right. :D

BULLSHIT LAH.

DSO/DSTA: 1st class honours / 2nd upper/2nd lower local uni
STE: 3rd class / pass local uni or unisim

DSTA has quite a number of first class and scholars. Stupid damn f**K.

from ex-dsta

Unregistered 08-04-2016 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83048)
You capture it quite accurately. Only small nit pick is actually in a typical promotion total increase is ~8%. So more like 3% normal increase + 5% promotion increase.

Not that this pathetic amount makes any difference, but just want to be accurate.

Most of the oldies manager there are only getting 5k+, young punks with a few years exp most likely will get offered 3.5k.

Then NCS is at least better? From job ad it is paying 5k for 5 year experience. And some MNC IT is paying 5.5k to 6k.

Unregistered 08-04-2016 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83064)
Then NCS is at least better? From job ad it is paying 5k for 5 year experience. And some MNC IT is paying 5.5k to 6k.

they say paying up to 5k with min 5 years exp lah. in reality they wont offer that high one. go & ask ard any engineer, ncs is same as ste shiit pay with shiit culture.

the only diff is ncs is smarter in their recruitment marketing. they like to pay peanuts & demand long hours and dangle the carrot u can join singtel in the future if ur good. it mainly bs as there is almost no way to rise from ncs to singtel unless somebody at singtel really like u.

Unregistered 08-04-2016 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82997)
It's not just about opportunity and exposure, it is also about intelligence. STE people are generally just not there on the IQ, even if you give them exposure they also cannot learn much.

It is not that joining STE makes someone dumb, its the culture there just causes smart people to leave after a few months and the lousy whiners no choice stay there with badass demotivation. Vicious cycle. No youngster who has a shred of dignity, professionalism and marketability for better pay will stay there long.

My personal observation in terms of engineering is DSO tends to get good (but not top) like 75 percentile talents, DSTA average to good 50-75 percentile, SME tend to get 25-50 percentile. STE/NCS good buddies always picking up the bottom below 25 percentile calibre people.

u sure anot, DSTA 50 percentile? they pay 4.5k for FCH, u think no FCH will want to go in meh?

Unregistered 09-04-2016 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83124)
u sure anot, DSTA 50 percentile? they pay 4.5k for FCH, u think no FCH will want to go in meh?

Caliber of people is not just about how good you are at exams and starting pay. A lot of prestigious MNCs have comprehensive assessment centers to measure many attributes. The best and most well rounded people are usually already taken up by all these companies. Not everything is about starting pay; culture, branding and opportunities to progress count as well.

DSTA people regardless of class of honors are generally above average, but in terms of actual work they tend to be more narrow in their competency. DSTA engineers are good people who get the job done, but not the type that can break new frontiers or demonstrate superior project management skills or exhibit strong leadership traits.

The only reason why they pay higher for FCH is this outdated gov mentality of adding a few hundred dollars to starting pay for every additional level of honors you get.

Just my personal opinion after interacting with quite a number of them.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83137)
Caliber of people is not just about how good you are at exams and starting pay. A lot of prestigious MNCs have comprehensive assessment centers to measure many attributes. The best and most well rounded people are usually already taken up by all these companies. Not everything is about starting pay; culture, branding and opportunities to progress count as well.

DSTA people regardless of class of honors are generally above average, but in terms of actual work they tend to be more narrow in their competency. DSTA engineers are good people who get the job done, but not the type that can break new frontiers or demonstrate superior project management skills or exhibit strong leadership traits.

The only reason why they pay higher for FCH is this outdated gov mentality of adding a few hundred dollars to starting pay for every additional level of honors you get.

Just my personal opinion after interacting with quite a number of them.

Guess how to get into one of these "prestigious MNCs comprehensive assessment centers" in the first place?

Yup you guessed it! Good uni (local Us, oxbridge, ivy league) with 2nd upper/FCH.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 01:37 AM

Quote:

Caliber of people is not just about how good you are at exams and starting pay. A lot of prestigious MNCs have comprehensive assessment centers to measure many attributes. The best and most well rounded people are usually already taken up by all these companies. Not everything is about starting pay; culture, branding and opportunities to progress count as well.
I agree with the first sentence. However, as you might already observed from university, the 50th percentile university student can't even get a second upper. (and hence won't even be shortlisted for the interview). Are you perhaps referring to 50th percentile of another subset? If so, please specify clearly.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 82997)
It's not just about opportunity and exposure, it is also about intelligence. STE people are generally just not there on the IQ, even if you give them exposure they also cannot learn much.

It is not that joining STE makes someone dumb, its the culture there just causes smart people to leave after a few months and the lousy whiners no choice stay there with badass demotivation. Vicious cycle. No youngster who has a shred of dignity, professionalism and marketability for better pay will stay there long.

My personal observation in terms of engineering is DSO tends to get good (but not top) like 75 percentile talents, DSTA average to good 50-75 percentile, SME tend to get 25-50 percentile. STE/NCS good buddies always picking up the bottom below 25 percentile calibre people.

i wonder if this guy been to local uni before anot? average to good is 50-75? if u dont know just diam diam lah.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 09:36 AM

If given a choice, join NCS better? For better salary and progression? Looks like STE is condemned to the bottom.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83141)
i wonder if this guy been to local uni before anot? average to good is 50-75? if u dont know just diam diam lah.

i'm sure he is just referring to average to good among engine grads lah. if u include ite/poly & all the pte uni schools of course even a 3 or 2:2 honors from ntu/nus is considered 'elite'

the best engine grads either take scholarship overseas for further studies or join those structured programs in mncs anyway.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83137)
Caliber of people is not just about how good you are at exams and starting pay. A lot of prestigious MNCs have comprehensive assessment centers to measure many attributes. The best and most well rounded people are usually already taken up by all these companies. Not everything is about starting pay; culture, branding and opportunities to progress count as well.

DSTA people regardless of class of honors are generally above average, but in terms of actual work they tend to be more narrow in their competency. DSTA engineers are good people who get the job done, but not the type that can break new frontiers or demonstrate superior project management skills or exhibit strong leadership traits.

The only reason why they pay higher for FCH is this outdated gov mentality of adding a few hundred dollars to starting pay for every additional level of honors you get.

Just my personal opinion after interacting with quite a number of them.

Total rubbish from an ignorant fool. DSTA is among the top employers in the engineering world and pays close to top dollars also. Other than investment banks, they are one of the highest payers out there.

50-75 people? More like you fail to make the cut and come here to sour grapes put down DSTA.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83151)
i'm sure he is just referring to average to good among engine grads lah. if u include ite/poly & all the pte uni schools of course even a 3 or 2:2 honors from ntu/nus is considered 'elite'

the best engine grads either take scholarship overseas for further studies or join those structured programs in mncs anyway.

100% bs. I have a uni friend FCH go join DSTA and after 5 years now already drawing 12k. Other than banks, private sector also cannot match.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83156)
100% bs. I have a uni friend FCH go join DSTA and after 5 years now already drawing 12k. Other than banks, private sector also cannot match.

i agreed with u, its a joke that the commenter says that those 'elite' will go to MNC. i bet he did not know much about DSTA that a lot of scholar from ivy league working in DSTA.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83160)
i agreed with u, its a joke that the commenter says that those 'elite' will go to MNC. i bet he did not know much about DSTA that a lot of scholar from ivy league working in DSTA.

From what i hear DSTA scholars move up even faster than foreign bank management program. Most can exceed 300k within 10 years. Maybe only FO and traders earn more. A lot of misunderstanding & false info here.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83166)
From what i hear DSTA scholars move up even faster than foreign bank management program. Most can exceed 300k within 10 years. Maybe only FO and traders earn more. A lot of misunderstanding & false info here.

this is only for scholars. most normal engineers at dsta only include allowance, aws & bonus then got hope of exceeding 300k in 10 yrs.

Unregistered 09-04-2016 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 83151)
i'm sure he is just referring to average to good among engine grads lah. if u include ite/poly & all the pte uni schools of course even a 3 or 2:2 honors from ntu/nus is considered 'elite'

the best engine grads either take scholarship overseas for further studies or join those structured programs in mncs anyway.

PLEASE, ITE/POLY does not even consider as ENGINEER. they are normally classified as technician or associate engineer. It's not like you took engineering course means you are engineer. another dumb ****


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