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Unregistered 09-04-2021 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164617)
I'm project engineer E5 but I like to think of myself as project manager.
So I brag to my friends that I manage project.

And my M1 manager just manage me

for what

titles are nothing with the equivalent payscales

Chua 09-04-2021 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164830)
Cause diploma holder in ST are just those maintenance. Technician. Warehouse people...
If you don't have degree, your pay grade is capped.

I believe non recognised degree also not eligible. Meaning you will be called principal technician instead of principal engineer. Pay scale. Grade etc.

Well basically I'm a degree holder. I worked in mnc where degree is basic requirement. Everyone has degree. In fact I would argue and say master is getting norm.

So non degree is really impossible.

So what ST does is they encourage diploma holder to get degree. Thru private uni like sim part time etc and their boss will support them.

Its sad but if you don't have a degree you can't compete.

America company is different. America company got education or not. Doesn't matter etc.
This is Singapore company...

Although I can't say where those senior managers are they degree holders or diploma cause they keep their education background very secret.

I think i did the right thing in this case. If a company limits their choice of talents to only theoretical paper qualifications forgetting the part on relevance, experience and good track record, they also limit their reach. My former manager in another European MNC was a diploma holder who became GM. I remember him as a charismatic leader who also has extraordinary EQ and brings in the big deals. He got posted to China before covid and heard he is doing well despite the pandemic. Of course, he got degree holders working for him. :)

Thank you for the reply.

Unregistered 09-04-2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chua (Post 164837)
I think i did the right thing in this case. If a company limits their choice of talents to only theoretical paper qualifications forgetting the part on relevance, experience and good track record, they also limit their reach. My former manager in another European MNC was a diploma holder who became GM. I remember him as a charismatic leader who also has extraordinary EQ and brings in the big deals. He got posted to China before covid and heard he is doing well despite the pandemic. Of course, he got degree holders working for him. :)

Thank you for the reply.

So are you saying high IQ supposed to work under high EQ
Then school should just teach EQ skills in school can liao.
The different ways of saying no.
The different ways to manage people.
The different ways to inspire people

Chua 09-04-2021 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164874)
So are you saying high IQ supposed to work under high EQ
Then school should just teach EQ skills in school can liao.
The different ways of saying no.
The different ways to manage people.
The different ways to inspire people

I think you don't understand that leadership comes in a whole package.
Productivity comes with good resource usage. Ability to harness the right talent measured with pertinence, with proven track record, all these are important to leadership. Paper qualifications are training you received to perform on your job. But it doesn't necessary mean you will perform to the expectations of the leadership.

In the past I have seen young engineers who believe they deserve to promote faster because they have a degree even when they don't perform better than their diploma peers. Even with high IQ, they don't realize that promotions come to those who value add, deliver results, meet KPI. And a degree doesn't guarantee that. That's why I was quite amused when my friend was told he could not have been a project manager or did what he did because he only has a diploma.

Schools can only teach you that much. You need more than a piece of paper to prove your mettle.

Unregistered 09-04-2021 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chua (Post 164885)
I think you don't understand that leadership comes in a whole package.
Productivity comes with good resource usage. Ability to harness the right talent measured with pertinence, with proven track record, all these are important to leadership. Paper qualifications are training you received to perform on your job. But it doesn't necessary mean you will perform to the expectations of the leadership.

In the past I have seen young engineers who believe they deserve to promote faster because they have a degree even when they don't perform better than their diploma peers. Even with high IQ, they don't realize that promotions come to those who value add, deliver results, meet KPI. And a degree doesn't guarantee that. That's why I was quite amused when my friend was told he could not have been a project manager or did what he did because he only has a diploma.

Schools can only teach you that much. You need more than a piece of paper to prove your mettle.

If you can't attend part time uni courses to complete a degree I today's online age.
You can't lead a team of high IQ engineers.

Your charismatic self entitled I have the "personality" to create value will piss smart engineers who design the highly intelligent systems for you.

Managers with no education. Pui.
You can't even complet a degree where 100% of your inferiors can... Shows you don't have the capability to lead.

Go lead Mcdonald la

Unregistered 09-04-2021 02:50 PM

Diploma holder can be manager la.
To lead a team of diploma holders.

Diploma holder don't listen to degree holder manager de.
So there is a place for non degree holder...

Like aircraft maintenance or ship maintenance etc.

Unregistered 09-04-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164894)
Diploma holder can be manager la.
To lead a team of diploma holders.

Diploma holder don't listen to degree holder manager de.
So there is a place for non degree holder...

Like aircraft maintenance or ship maintenance etc.

I think it really depends on luck sometimes. I know one diploma holder who took 20 years to promote from a manager to senior manager, but only 3 years from senior manager to AVP after he moved to a different group.

Unregistered 09-04-2021 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164896)
I think it really depends on luck sometimes. I know one diploma holder who took 20 years to promote from a manager to senior manager, but only 3 years from senior manager to AVP after he moved to a different group.

AVP is not luck la.
It's basically like this.

Senior management : we need to restructure. Who to lead this unit ah?
Circle : why not xxxx he senior manager for a similar unit for a while.
Senior management: no don't like him. Anyone else?
Circle: how about yyy he been wirh company 20 years. Very approachable nice guy.
Senior management: sounds good. OK I will approach him...

Informal
Senior management : yyy hor, you heard about the restructuring?
Yyy: yeah when ah?
Senior management : soon, now we doing succession planning and we are considering to appoint you to lead this unit.
Yyy: wah I'm not sure I want to leave my current unit le. Already established good rraltionshup with my guys.
Senior management : hmmm like that ah. Rare opportunity like this you should consider la. Otherwise you are stuck as senior manager in your current unit cause AAA won't be going anywhere soon. Aiya you can bring your guys over la when you avp in the new unit. But only a few la can't transfer everyone over la.
Yyy: like that ah... Can think about it or not? How many guys can I bring?
Senior management : just a left hand and a right hand...
Yyy: only 2? My current team got 15 ppl le.
Senior manager : just choose 2 promote over... If not then we look for other candidate
Yyy: OK I think...

That is luck meh?
More like no one else in the succession line and got opportunity...

Unregistered 09-04-2021 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164899)
AVP is not luck la.
It's basically like this.

Senior management : we need to restructure. Who to lead this unit ah?
Circle : why not xxxx he senior manager for a similar unit for a while.
Senior management: no don't like him. Anyone else?
Circle: how about yyy he been wirh company 20 years. Very approachable nice guy.
Senior management: sounds good. OK I will approach him...

Informal
Senior management : yyy hor, you heard about the restructuring?
Yyy: yeah when ah?
Senior management : soon, now we doing succession planning and we are considering to appoint you to lead this unit.
Yyy: wah I'm not sure I want to leave my current unit le. Already established good rraltionshup with my guys.
Senior management : hmmm like that ah. Rare opportunity like this you should consider la. Otherwise you are stuck as senior manager in your current unit cause AAA won't be going anywhere soon. Aiya you can bring your guys over la when you avp in the new unit. But only a few la can't transfer everyone over la.
Yyy: like that ah... Can think about it or not? How many guys can I bring?
Senior management : just a left hand and a right hand...
Yyy: only 2? My current team got 15 ppl le.
Senior manager : just choose 2 promote over... If not then we look for other candidate
Yyy: OK I think...

That is luck meh?
More like no one else in the succession line and got opportunity...

Yes this is called luck.
Lucky that senior management don't like the other guy.

Unregistered 09-04-2021 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 164901)
Yes this is called luck.
Lucky that senior management don't like the other guy.

It's called office politics.


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