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  #441 (permalink)  
Old 20-10-2020, 08:54 PM
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Overpaid managers. In this time of economy, best to retrench
If you see yourself as a cost centre, then yes, >5k is probably overkill for any position. Simply because you're dispensable, and a replacement can easily do your job. Don't bother arguing they can't do as well as you do, because probably your job isn't that important to the company to be bothered with quality.

The key to higher salary is showing your value. One way is to be damn good at multiple things. Now imagine a sale person who can code, who can project manage, who can troubleshoot issues, who speaks multiple languages, who can speak to developers, who can write user stories, who can translate business requirements to technical specifications. Now would you pay 5k, 10k or 20k for this person? Or would you refer spend 30k to build a team with specialised skills, which might not be tapped on full-time?
Then roll out initiatives every once in a while, which must really improve processes or reduce cost.
Lastly, being a nice and fun colleague, who people want to hang out with.

And there are so many people like these in the top tiers firms, before you say where got such people.
Instead of just whining, probably you should learn from these people.
Don't say retrench, high chance of getting an counter-offer if you decided to leave yourself.

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  #442 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 09:13 AM
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Do the NCS seniors even deserve 5k though? I'm not sure about their skills, but look at some of the attitudes here. Even given 5k starting salary, fresh grads should steer clear of this place as I highly doubt they can learn great stuff from these seniors.
Ask yourself this.
You are given 2 months to build a module that send out notification. Can you do it?
You are given 6 months to build an intranet Web system say leave system. Can you do it?
You are given 1 year to build a system with microservices with 2 front end. Web ui. And mobile. Can you do it?

If cannot. Don't know how. Don't know how to begin.
Dojr know how to create loosely coupled system. Don't know how to use dependency injection.
Don't know how to test drive the solution.
Don't know agile.
Don't know how to refsctor code.
Don't know how to write clean code.
Don't know how to write pure function.
Don't know how to use interface.
Don't know design pattern.
Don't know object basic.
Don't know how to improve sql performance.
Don't know how to use index.
Don't know how to normalise table.
Don't know how to learn a new technology in 2 months. Need 2 years.

Only know how to draw diagram.
Only know how to log issues
Only know how to correct grammar in requirement specs.
Come late. Leave on time.
MC when there is deliverable.
Asked to look into a bug.
No update for 3 weeks.
When asked why there is no result? SLA is 3 days. Not 3 weeks.
Their reply. Didn't know have to actually solve the bug. Just "look" into it.

That's 90% fresh grad and we wonder why they deserve 5k
Not willing to work.
Not willing to climb.
But asking for 5k++ and they wonder why seniors are mean to them.
If you can do the work. No one will give you problem. Even the users will love you.
But the fresh grad are more wayanf than some oldies.
Talk so big.
Impostor syndrome.
Every year I see fresh grad I just roll my eyes.
I rather have actual experience people without delusional ideal

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  #443 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 10:11 AM
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Ask yourself this.
You are given 2 months to build a module that send out notification. Can you do it?
You are given 6 months to build an intranet Web system say leave system. Can you do it?
You are given 1 year to build a system with microservices with 2 front end. Web ui. And mobile. Can you do it?

If cannot. Don't know how. Don't know how to begin.
Dojr know how to create loosely coupled system. Don't know how to use dependency injection.
Don't know how to test drive the solution.
Don't know agile.
Don't know how to refsctor code.
Don't know how to write clean code.
Don't know how to write pure function.
Don't know how to use interface.
Don't know design pattern.
Don't know object basic.
Don't know how to improve sql performance.
Don't know how to use index.
Don't know how to normalise table.
Don't know how to learn a new technology in 2 months. Need 2 years.

Only know how to draw diagram.
Only know how to log issues
Only know how to correct grammar in requirement specs.
Come late. Leave on time.
MC when there is deliverable.
Asked to look into a bug.
No update for 3 weeks.
When asked why there is no result? SLA is 3 days. Not 3 weeks.
Their reply. Didn't know have to actually solve the bug. Just "look" into it.

That's 90% fresh grad and we wonder why they deserve 5k
Not willing to work.
Not willing to climb.
But asking for 5k++ and they wonder why seniors are mean to them.
If you can do the work. No one will give you problem. Even the users will love you.
But the fresh grad are more wayanf than some oldies.
Talk so big.
Impostor syndrome.
Every year I see fresh grad I just roll my eyes.
I rather have actual experience people without delusional ideal
honestly this just shows the salary discrepancy in ncs. not sure why people like you still stay there and not find a job that is worth your skills lol

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  #444 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 12:26 PM
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honestly this just shows the salary discrepancy in ncs. not sure why people like you still stay there and not find a job that is worth your skills lol
I'm fresh grad last year where got 5k.only 4.8k.
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  #445 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 01:54 PM
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honestly this just shows the salary discrepancy in ncs. not sure why people like you still stay there and not find a job that is worth your skills lol
If based on MOM criteria for employment pass for foreigner... It's min 4.5k. This figure is broad across all industry so its quite consistent. Fresh grad in other sectors their starting pay around 3.2k to 3.5k. So again show consistency

What is inconsistent or wrong is fresh grad in IT getting paid 5k to do half the job of seniors. That's wrong
If the company value allthis fresh talent so much, why do we senior need to "teach" them since we are already underpaid. So yep. This is the result of fresh grad getting crazy starting pay

Get high starting pay. Be prepared to work 24/7 cause no one will help you.
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  #446 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 09:56 PM
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If based on MOM criteria for employment pass for foreigner... It's min 4.5k. This figure is broad across all industry so its quite consistent. Fresh grad in other sectors their starting pay around 3.2k to 3.5k. So again show consistency

What is inconsistent or wrong is fresh grad in IT getting paid 5k to do half the job of seniors. That's wrong
If the company value allthis fresh talent so much, why do we senior need to "teach" them since we are already underpaid. So yep. This is the result of fresh grad getting crazy starting pay

Get high starting pay. Be prepared to work 24/7 cause no one will help you.
Why are you comparing to other industries instead of within the industry?
It's a vicious cycle, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Probably the HR and management realised this, and they are willing to pay the market rate to compete with the tier 1/2 companies. This will help to refresh their current pool of "talents".

Are you sure you're underpaid? If you strongly feel so, why not go somewhere else which can pay you fairly? We have a free market economy, you get the salary you deserve. Either you're not good enough, or you're easily replaceable, or you're weak in negotiation, or you're too comfortable. All of which, you can do something about it, but you chose not to. Who to blame then? Nobody owes you your desired salary.
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  #447 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 10:54 PM
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If based on MOM criteria for employment pass for foreigner... It's min 4.5k. This figure is broad across all industry so its quite consistent. Fresh grad in other sectors their starting pay around 3.2k to 3.5k. So again show consistency

What is inconsistent or wrong is fresh grad in IT getting paid 5k to do half the job of seniors. That's wrong
If the company value allthis fresh talent so much, why do we senior need to "teach" them since we are already underpaid. So yep. This is the result of fresh grad getting crazy starting pay

Get high starting pay. Be prepared to work 24/7 cause no one will help you.
they should just lower their salary and get diploma holders instead to meet the ceca quota


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  #448 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 11:10 PM
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If based on MOM criteria for employment pass for foreigner... It's min 4.5k. This figure is broad across all industry so its quite consistent. Fresh grad in other sectors their starting pay around 3.2k to 3.5k. So again show consistency

What is inconsistent or wrong is fresh grad in IT getting paid 5k to do half the job of seniors. That's wrong
If the company value allthis fresh talent so much, why do we senior need to "teach" them since we are already underpaid. So yep. This is the result of fresh grad getting crazy starting pay

Get high starting pay. Be prepared to work 24/7 cause no one will help you.
Why are you comparing to other industries instead of within the industry?
It's a vicious cycle, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Probably the HR and management realised this, and they are willing to pay the market rate to compete with the tier 1/2 companies. This will help to refresh their current pool of "talents".

Are you sure you're underpaid? If you strongly feel so, why not go somewhere else which can pay you fairly? We have a free market economy, you get the salary you deserve. Either you're not good enough, or you're easily replaceable, or you're weak in negotiation, or you're too comfortable. All of which, you can do something about it, but you chose not to. Who to blame then? Nobody owes you your desired salary.
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  #449 (permalink)  
Old 21-10-2020, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If based on MOM criteria for employment pass for foreigner... It's min 4.5k. This figure is broad across all industry so its quite consistent. Fresh grad in other sectors their starting pay around 3.2k to 3.5k. So again show consistency

What is inconsistent or wrong is fresh grad in IT getting paid 5k to do half the job of seniors. That's wrong
If the company value allthis fresh talent so much, why do we senior need to "teach" them since we are already underpaid. So yep. This is the result of fresh grad getting crazy starting pay

Get high starting pay. Be prepared to work 24/7 cause no one will help you.
The thing is, fresh grads see their friends get 6-7k at tier 1 companies and think, hey, I'm also valued as much right? Same course, same type of work? Why not I give chance a bit, ask for 5k only? Surely that's undervaluing myself a bit?

When in reality, their friends have good grades, secured multiple swe internships, competitions, got practice interview questions & can perform during interview, then finally get offer in tier 1 companies after 4-5 rounds of interviews. They go through all those hoops, they prove that they can code then of course the tier 1 company offer 6-7k.

On the other hand you have some 2nd lower grad who only have their school projects to showcase apply to some t2/3 company (who apparently pays their seniors peanuts) and ask for 5k of course get ridiculed, and rightfully so.
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  #450 (permalink)  
Old 22-10-2020, 10:22 AM
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The thing is, fresh grads see their friends get 6-7k at tier 1 companies and think, hey, I'm also valued as much right? Same course, same type of work? Why not I give chance a bit, ask for 5k only? Surely that's undervaluing myself a bit?

When in reality, their friends have good grades, secured multiple swe internships, competitions, got practice interview questions & can perform during interview, then finally get offer in tier 1 companies after 4-5 rounds of interviews. They go through all those hoops, they prove that they can code then of course the tier 1 company offer 6-7k.

On the other hand you have some 2nd lower grad who only have their school projects to showcase apply to some t2/3 company (who apparently pays their seniors peanuts) and ask for 5k of course get ridiculed, and rightfully so.
Every year existing staff annual increment doesn't even go above 5% cap.
But in the same year, fresh grad no experience no proven skills, every year their starting pay increase by 25 to 50%. This industry is a joke.

Why not all the seniors just quit. And rejoin company as fresh. Instant 5k increment. And can use the "I'm fresh" excuse to not deliver.

Othwerise, it doesn't make sense for fresh grad to get paid 5k to barely do nothing while seniors do all the work for 4.2k
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