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Really that bad for engineers?

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:48 AM
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many people don't have passions. you sound like the stupid teacher recruitment ad on tv - "mr siva always asked me: what IS your passion..."

wtf? what passion does a kid have? you go ask the kids around you and you'll probably get these answers: psp, tv, ben10, winx club, soccer, kfc, mcdonalds, anime, jay chou and lady gaga.

passion my foot.
Yes you are right. And I am sorry to say that we are breeding a whole generation of kids who goes for instant gratifications.

As a kid, I built Legos, write computer programs in BASIC and build scale models. I suck at it, but by doing these, understand the fun in creating, building and trying new things. Nowadays, just pop in a disc, you have video games.

I asked the kids, hey you guys play these stuffs everyday, have you ever thought of making something like this yourself? Nope, they reply, I just want to play them...

And so with this, coupled with the fact that the companies in this country treats engineers as being a dime a dozen, we have none left.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:26 AM
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Money is my only passion.
most people's passion is money too. just that they don't say it. or they pretend to be politically correct even when posting anonymously online. or they don't know that they're pretending. how passionate can you be when you work for someone? i hate it when people say they're passionate in a very specialized area (e.g. forward swap strategies for interest rate derivatives, or deep-water oil spill cleanup operations), especially when they said they had wanted to do it all their life.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 12:29 PM
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i think passion comes into play once money is not an issue. if one is earning well n living comfortably, he may choose the work he likes over something he does not like which pays slightly better. at the end of the day, u can be paid well for something only if ur good at it. so bashing passion is not correct. and claiming passion as the only reason for doing some kind of work is also not true. the problem is that when people succeed at something and have made enough money, it is easy to talk about passion.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2010, 12:30 PM
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most people's passion is money too. just that they don't say it. or they pretend to be politically correct even when posting anonymously online. or they don't know that they're pretending. how passionate can you be when you work for someone? i hate it when people say they're passionate in a very specialized area (e.g. forward swap strategies for interest rate derivatives, or deep-water oil spill cleanup operations), especially when they said they had wanted to do it all their life.
Money is the nearest thing a person need in order to fulfil one's passion.

Sadly, we live in singapore. No money no talk. I'm sure there are many engineers that have made it big and earn big bucks in the 30s. But generally speaking, the finance industry is definitely easier to have their pay jump faster/more than engineers.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 15-06-2010, 10:43 AM
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If you want to make big bucks as an engineer you can either

1) join the financial industry - lots of engineering grads do that

2) be an engineer but not in Singapore. From what i know, engineers in other countries esp Western ones, earn LOTS and LOTS more then engineers in Singapore. Sad but true. Just like how junior lawyers in Hong Kong earn double then those in Singapore.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 15-06-2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If you want to make big bucks as an engineer you can either

1) join the financial industry - lots of engineering grads do that

2) be an engineer but not in Singapore. From what i know, engineers in other countries esp Western ones, earn LOTS and LOTS more then engineers in Singapore. Sad but true. Just like how junior lawyers in Hong Kong earn double then those in Singapore.
You know why engineers dont get paid a lot in Singapore?

They can easily get an engineer from neighbouring country, pay them half your salary and get them to work twice as hard. And when you whine that you can't get a job because of this influx of FTs, the statistics will show "Singapore and PRs" have engineering jobs because these FTs became PRs. Dont forget, we are always lumped together with PRs. For what I dont know!


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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 15-06-2010, 05:33 PM
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Stop blaming foreigners. If foreginer influx and cheap labor and hard work was the only reason for FT import, then they would do it in all areas and not just engineering. Why would banks not hire cheap labor and make them work more ??? The fact is that Singaporeans do not produce enough number of good-enough engineers.

Look at ur research labs like A-star. I had applied there as a foreigner and the very next day they called me for an interview and offered a job. I was a fresh grad student from NUS. Ofcoz, A-star does not pay that well so I did not go for it. But, where are ur singaporean engineers. Stop blaming FTs. The truth is that singaporean engineers are not capable to earning high salaries. And those who are , go to banking n finance.

The turth is a mediocre engineer can still earn better in finance. Just bcus the salaries are slightly higher in finance sector, does not mean that people are brainier. But to succeed n earn well in engineering, u need to be smart which most local people are not.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 15-06-2010, 08:52 PM
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Default No way

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Stop blaming foreigners. If foreginer influx and cheap labor and hard work was the only reason for FT import, then they would do it in all areas and not just engineering. Why would banks not hire cheap labor and make them work more ??? The fact is that Singaporeans do not produce enough number of good-enough engineers.

Look at ur research labs like A-star. I had applied there as a foreigner and the very next day they called me for an interview and offered a job. I was a fresh grad student from NUS. Ofcoz, A-star does not pay that well so I did not go for it. But, where are ur singaporean engineers. Stop blaming FTs. The truth is that singaporean engineers are not capable to earning high salaries. And those who are , go to banking n finance.

The turth is a mediocre engineer can still earn better in finance. Just bcus the salaries are slightly higher in finance sector, does not mean that people are brainier. But to succeed n earn well in engineering, u need to be smart which most local people are not.
What an angry reply...

I'll just like to state a few points here...

I was an engineering graduate and I did my internship in A-star. Life as a researcher is rather stagnant. Unlike what you mentioned, I find that A-star does pay well. Maybe one man's food is another man's poison, but the A-star starting pay is definitely above the industry average for a fresh engineering graduate.

Yes, indeed, many engineering graduates turn over to the financial sector. Why? Because if you can achieve the highest returns while utilizing the lowest resources, then your resources have been used efficiently. Although the finance sector might require long working hours, the pay increase in the starting years is rather substantial depending on performance and your contacts. In this sector, your most important resource in terms of career advancement (time) would be made use of efficiently.

Needless to say, this is also possible as an engineer, but the chances are lower. Engineering is a stable career and you will find that your bosses will be rather unwilling to leave because they are sitting in their office with a comfortable paycheck and steady job. That is why it might take many more years to jump into a technical management role as compared to the finance sector. However, I do not agree that a mediocre engineer can do just as well in the finance sector. The financial sector is a cut-throat industry, where performance is key.

I am an engineer myself, and I wouldn't consider myself very smart or very capable. I too have considered moving on to the finance sector, but it is indeed hard to change your path when you are drawing a $4300 salary (excluding bonuses) after 1.5 years of working experience. I think the catch is all about choosing the right industry to be an engineer.
No prizes for guessing which industry. =)
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 15-06-2010, 11:28 PM
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I was not angry. but as a foreigner, i find it weird when people make a 1 point agenda to blame foreigners. A-star pays 4500SGD to fresh Phd. I think thats low. Considering that Singapore has become costlier over the years. 5 yrs back , 4500 was ok. But now , its simply not enough. The pay is stagnant in places like NUS, A-star, etc. I dont work in Singapore ritenow but I was thinking that MNCs mite pay well. But engineering MNCs are not there in Singapore.

Clearly, engineers who dont make it high in their fields try to change to finance n banking. What I meant is that an average guy in banking perhaps makes a little more than a guy with the same caliber in engineering. I see every other engineer who does see a bright future contemplating a switch to Banking and Finance. Clearly they think they can do better in that area. So, I assume it should be slightly easier than technology.

Some engineers make good money. But the majority dont and the reason being, they are average. And when average people get frustrated n loose enthusiasm, they want to switch to whatever is lucrative.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2010, 09:11 AM
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What an angry reply...

I'll just like to state a few points here...

I was an engineering graduate and I did my internship in A-star. Life as a researcher is rather stagnant. Unlike what you mentioned, I find that A-star does pay well. Maybe one man's food is another man's poison, but the A-star starting pay is definitely above the industry average for a fresh engineering graduate.

Yes, indeed, many engineering graduates turn over to the financial sector. Why? Because if you can achieve the highest returns while utilizing the lowest resources, then your resources have been used efficiently. Although the finance sector might require long working hours, the pay increase in the starting years is rather substantial depending on performance and your contacts. In this sector, your most important resource in terms of career advancement (time) would be made use of efficiently.

Needless to say, this is also possible as an engineer, but the chances are lower. Engineering is a stable career and you will find that your bosses will be rather unwilling to leave because they are sitting in their office with a comfortable paycheck and steady job. That is why it might take many more years to jump into a technical management role as compared to the finance sector. However, I do not agree that a mediocre engineer can do just as well in the finance sector. The financial sector is a cut-throat industry, where performance is key.

I am an engineer myself, and I wouldn't consider myself very smart or very capable. I too have considered moving on to the finance sector, but it is indeed hard to change your path when you are drawing a $4300 salary (excluding bonuses) after 1.5 years of working experience. I think the catch is all about choosing the right industry to be an engineer.
No prizes for guessing which industry. =)
Can I know are you a 2nd upper/1st class honours grad?
Are you still working in A*Star after you grad? if not Private sector or government sector?
You grad in which year?
Which industry are you in as an engineer?

I find it very curious how you manage to get a pay of $4300 after 1.5 years of exp from fresh grad?

I was also an engineer grad from ntu 2nd lower, after 2 year 8mth in the same company, my basic is still less than $3200.

Can you tell how u get to $4300 basic in 1.5 years
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