Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Haha. We clearly disagree. My point is simple: the legal profession should not be protected just like all the other professions. The recurring theme of the 21st century is that there are in general a glut of graduates in all industries and in all professions everywhere around the world, the way I see it is for graduates to be adaptable and flexible. If an individual who reads law can't secure a TC, there are many other jobs out there and they have to tailor their expectations. If an individual who reads accountancy can't secure a place at an audit firm, they have to adapt too.

Anyway, from your tone, you sound like a law student worried about the TC situation. If you are indeed one, good luck for the hunt!

Yup, I am indeed a law student, and I am indeed worried about the TC situation here, and thanks for the well wishes! (At 4am even - either you're based overseas, or you must be working really hard wherever you are at, but still reading my long rambling posts!)

However, I have, very very fortunately, secured my TC at my first choice firm - after about 40+ internship and TC applications, and going though about 6 internships, all in the span of 1.5 years because I was too 'busy' enjoying uni life back in Year 1, and also because I was blissfully unaware of what was going to hit me in the years ahead.

Nevertheless, securing a TC for myself does not stop me from being concerned at the current state of affairs. Some of my friends in their final year, or even in Part B, still are facing a struggle getting their TCs. Some of my peers even have better grades and CVs than me (like representing our school for international competitions), but still do not have a TC, or have ended up 'settling' for a TC at a firm which was not one of their preferred choices, which may well affect their future prospects. I look at them and think to myself that I am really extremely fortunate to be going where I will be going. I then look at juniors who don't fully appreciate what they're going to be facing in a while (like myself in Year 1) and feel really worried for them.

I also feel that it's a huge waste not to end up in the profession after studying for a professional degree. Some people may fare better in practice, rather than in school, but in the current market, they won't even get the chance to practice (I believe that there's an SC out there with 3rd class honours (just rumors though), and I'm sure there are many second lowers who are top tier lawyers today).

Additionally, I don't think that a law degree is really that flexible. From my vantage point, I just can't see the truth in the advice that law is a great training of the mind and helps in any job - perhaps not yet. I don't know what a law grad as an outsider has over other grads applying for a role in their fields of expertise (they would be way behind the biz/acc students for finance and consulting roles, and the same could be said for other industries, like marketing, advertising, HR, etc). People who have made the switch successfully seem to have practiced for a while first, rather than jumping straight into a different industry fresh out of uni.

Just one last point on competition, if more competition is really what would help the industry, then what would all the negative headlines about the industry now look like to would-be uni applicants? The best students would not think of applying to study law any more, with the pay cuts and glut of students being a huge turn-off, and look to other fields. A brief chat with a lecturer during one of my seminar breaks seemed to confirm this, with that particular lecturer lamenting the quality of recent applicants based on how they fared in their interviews (but I admit that this is just a one-off instance, and I'm sure there may be others who say otherwise). Sure, in the short run, the best of the current crop of students will get into the good positions with good training and all, but in the long run, wouldn't this pool of top students become smaller and smaller?

I acknowledge that people will have very differing views on my last two points in the last two paras above (i.e. law grads are really flexible (even our law minister says this), and that even if the quality of applicants decreases, the training they receive in school will make them of equal or comparable quality anyway), but these are just my two cents worth on the matter, all of which shape my view that further competition beyond what we already have (not competition per se) is really not needed in our current state of affairs.

My 2 cents on several issues here:-

1. The legal market will get worse before it gets better.

2. The allure of law will diminish in the coming years because of poorer job prospects and more depressed starting salaries. but young impressionable JC kids will still want to enter law for the lay prestige.

3. The depression in salaries have nothing to do with the glut of law grads but rather business conditions. Even if you have 10X law graduates, the market will only hire the number of grads it needs, say X. Firms will then work these X number of associates to the bone. If times are good, they will pay well. If times are bad, they will pay less.

4. Young law grads these days have many more options than in the past.

5. If you want to get a job, hustle. Business students learn to hustle to get their coveted internships or graduate programmes. Law students should not be any different.

Based on 3rd year cohort from local uni, about 10-20% have TCs as of now.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Based on 3rd year cohort from local uni, about 10-20% have TCs as of now.

thats because applications JUST opened in end aug/sept...

almost 100% of my batch (year 4 right now) have TCs (I'm from a local school, and I'm pretty sure the situation in the other local school is the same)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

thats because applications JUST opened in end aug/sept...

almost 100% of my batch (year 4 right now) have TCs (I'm from a local school, and I'm pretty sure the situation in the other local school is the same)

Whats the big firm to small firm ratio?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whats the big firm to small firm ratio?

roughly 1/3 of the cohort in local uni will get a spot in the "desirable" spots (e.g. big 4, internationals, legal service)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

thats because applications JUST opened in end aug/sept...

almost 100% of my batch (year 4 right now) have TCs (I'm from a local school, and I'm pretty sure the situation in the other local school is the same)

that's not what i'm hearing.... but then again, i am not the one who's studying at a local school.

i find it so ironic that i worked so hard in school, got into a decent firm, and now all i want is to get out. advice for my juniors - get out early while you can.

://.rollonfriday.com/TheNews/EuropeNews/tabid/58/Id/4235/fromTab/36/currentIndex/5/Default.aspx

"Exclusive: Singapore firm slaps down lawyer for spilling on slashed bonus"

Singapore firms are reducing their lawyers' bonuses and salaries, and one firm has disciplined one of its own lawyers for revealing details of the cuts.

Sources report that three of the so-called 'big four' firms in the country, Allen & Gledhill, Drew & Napier, Rajah & Tann, and Wong Partnership, have cut bonuses and, in some cases, reduced salaries. The country's biggest firm by headcount, Rodyk & Davidson, confirmed to RollOnFriday that the low end of its bonus had been dropped. A spokeswoman blamed "the regional ecomonic slowdown", saying that the last two years had been "exceptionally strong".

However that went down badly with at least one Rodyk & Davidson lawyer, who sent a photo of the email informing staff of the cuts to his friends. An insider says that the firm has now "taken action" against him, although its spokeswoman declined to clarify what the action was, telling RollOnFriday. "we cannot comment publicly about our internal employee management process".

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Anybody heard anything about this? What happened to the poor lawyer?

I think lawyers are overpaid. Do you agree with me?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think lawyers are overpaid. Do you agree with me?

Disagree. For the amount of work they do, I would argue that most law firms are getting a good deal on their junior associates. Where else would you find a bunch of young people willing to put their lives on hold for 2 to 3 years for a starting pay of 5-6k?

On the other hand, I think IB is grossly overpaid. How does it make economic sense to pay a starting salary upwards of 12 to 15k? In which universe, from an economic perspective, is a 24 year old actually worth that amount?