Lawyer Salary

there are better things than to practice law. practice is over-rated , especially in the times of easily replaceable associates.

you need to ask yourself why do you want to practice law - and to do that you need to understand what the entails. have you interned at any law firm before or spoke to any lawyer? you need to figure out what kind of lawyer or person you want to be. so many professions out there, so many ways to make money - why a lawyer?

jobs-wise, i know a few UK unis graduates who arent able to find a training contract in the UK and are forced to come back to Singapore to look for a training contract amongst local firms, and not having any luck. my two cents are, if you can't find a training contract with a reputable firm that gives you legitimate training / exposure, you are better not practising.

good luck.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think as an external degree holder, you need to be realistic about your prospects in order to avoid disappointment, where disappointment = expectations minus reality.

Just laying out all the cards for you here. You need to have an upfront conversation with yourself.

Firstly, you don't come from the conveyor belt of local law SMU and NUS students, or the higher ranked or more prestigious Brit unis. That already puts you way back in terms of hiring prospects.

Its not easy to get into Big 4 law at all. People with stellar grades struggle to land a spot. This is not like other industries say accounting where their Big 4 hires an army of accounting grads with more or less average grades every year.

Landing a Big 4 training contract is perhaps like competing as a biz grad for a Management Associate position in one of the big local banks, i.e. definitely doable but not easy.

Secondly, everyone puts in the hours. The UCL law grad competing with you is probably also prepared to put in a 15 hour a day, 80 hour workweek. Hard work is not all there is in the working world. In fact working hard is probably the most straightforward thing to do, but there are so many other factors involved.

As for accepting a lower pay? Professional services firms pay standard rates according to each yearly intake. If they give you a shot, they'll pay you equally with all your peers. Otherwise, they won't even hire you at all.

Third, you cannot get called to the Bar with an external degree. Malaysia might give you a shot, but there are considerations of moving up north for a few years which you must think through for yourself. It's a long winding road if you take this path.

So you really do need to temper your expectations here. Not looking down on your qualifications or anything but this is the reality of your position.

I think before you start aspiring to the position your cousin (glamorous jet-setting in-house counsel at oil and gas etc etc), be mindful that she probably graduated from a recognised university and slogged it out at a top tier firm for a few years before ending up where she is now.

Its not impossible to become a lawyer and equalize yourself with the other law grads, but just be aware that by virtue of you taking a private law degree, there are all these systemic hurdles to cross before you can actually have a shot at progression in the legal profession. Your path will be necessarily different from the others, and definitely more arduous. But i won't dare to say that it is impossible. Good luck

I got a AAB for my A Levels. It has always been my dream to become a lawyer so since I can't get into he national uni with my result, I went for the next best option - private institution. I didn't know that UOL degree can't be called to the bar, as confirmed by my cousin.

UOL degree though good enough to be called to the bar in other countries, is only good enough to be paralegal or legal officer. Why so unfair? UOL degree is widely recognised amongst commonwealth countries! Why is Singapore the exception?

The only reprieve for me from this discussion is that I got to know from my school that I am amongst the top 10 student in Malaysia and Singapore and UOL will award one scholarship spot to the top performing student. I have every chance to get to UK for my 2nd year of studies onwards, and with a proper UK degree I can be called to the bar here. And that's what I am working for at this moment!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I got a AAB for my A Levels. It has always been my dream to become a lawyer so since I can't get into he national uni with my result, I went for the next best option - private institution. I didn't know that UOL degree can't be called to the bar, as confirmed by my cousin.

UOL degree though good enough to be called to the bar in other countries, is only good enough to be paralegal or legal officer. Why so unfair? UOL degree is widely recognised amongst commonwealth countries! Why is Singapore the exception?

The only reprieve for me from this discussion is that I got to know from my school that I am amongst the top 10 student in Malaysia and Singapore and UOL will award one scholarship spot to the top performing student. I have every chance to get to UK for my 2nd year of studies onwards, and with a proper UK degree I can be called to the bar here. And that's what I am working for at this moment!

lol lucky for you, that's sounds like a good plan good luck

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I got a AAB for my A Levels. It has always been my dream to become a lawyer so since I can't get into he national uni with my result, I went for the next best option - private institution. I didn't know that UOL degree can't be called to the bar, as confirmed by my cousin.

UOL degree though good enough to be called to the bar in other countries, is only good enough to be paralegal or legal officer. Why so unfair? UOL degree is widely recognised amongst commonwealth countries! Why is Singapore the exception?

The only reprieve for me from this discussion is that I got to know from my school that I am amongst the top 10 student in Malaysia and Singapore and UOL will award one scholarship spot to the top performing student. I have every chance to get to UK for my 2nd year of studies onwards, and with a proper UK degree I can be called to the bar here. And that's what I am working for at this moment!

Ahhh, noo. I'm pretty sure the legislation states that you have to study 3 years in the approved UK institution.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I got a AAB for my A Levels. It has always been my dream to become a lawyer so since I can't get into he national uni with my result, I went for the next best option - private institution. I didn't know that UOL degree can't be called to the bar, as confirmed by my cousin.

UOL degree though good enough to be called to the bar in other countries, is only good enough to be paralegal or legal officer. Why so unfair? UOL degree is widely recognised amongst commonwealth countries! Why is Singapore the exception?

The only reprieve for me from this discussion is that I got to know from my school that I am amongst the top 10 student in Malaysia and Singapore and UOL will award one scholarship spot to the top performing student. I have every chance to get to UK for my 2nd year of studies onwards, and with a proper UK degree I can be called to the bar here. And that's what I am working for at this moment!

I am the poster of #402. I do not know why is it so "unfair". I do think that there are some differences in standards between the schools, even though it is largely up to the individual concerned.

I am just questioning your dream to become a lawyer? What kind of lawyer do you wish to become? Why do you want to be a lawyer? Is it the pay? The thrill of advocacy? Because you want to help people? Because you love the law? I also hope that your dream is based on realistic expectations on what practising as a lawyer involves - it isn't suits or boston legal for sure.

I do know of some people who have got called to the Singapore bar via the foreign lawyer route that you suggested. It's a much longer route and a lot of perseverance is required. I think you also need a certain amt of experience with a law firm before you can be called to the Singapore bar as a Singapore lawyer.

Hope the above helps.

3 points for Mr UOL,

Not to diss you , but if you can't do proper research on requirements for qualifying for the bar , how sure are you that you can produce top quality legal research ?

The foreign lawyer route still only allows you to practice in only certain areas if I am not wrong.

Not to pour cold water but if you wanna go to UK to practice here are the hurdles:

1) oversupply of law students, even grads from mid upper tier universities like Warwick ,Bristol are fighting hard for limited spots , so what makes you special ?

2) Visa is in short supply- due to local politics, the government is clamping down on international students + firms have a limited quota for works visas . So assuming you are applying, you are fighting for one work visa spot against say another malaysian/Singapore ( just to take a similar sample group of comparison to you) who graduated from Oxbridge , LSE with a first. Why would they choose you ?

3) have you done vacation schemes?

But hey one day maybe you will do it all and come back on this forum and say "bitch please, I did it" . If so , please come back and rub it into our faces

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thought I share my experience about the Singapore Legal Service (SLS) here. I am practicing in one of the bigger law firms in Singapore. At partner level. Thought I should do a "pay back" and join the SLS. They offered me a salary which made me fell off my chair. On a yearly total remuneration basis, it was effectively a 55-60% pay cut! The SLS salary was structured into many components. And I have to complete the year before all the components are payable. The monthly salary offered in the SLS was 40% of my fixed salary which I take back from the firm. I wonder whether they are serious in trying to bring in private sector expertise.

Well, they have a five months' bonus.

So many whiny wannabe lawyers here. Please just go ahead and do compliance. Adequately paid, but stable, and boring, and they will accept your inferior degrees.

Just wondering, newly qualified lawyers at law firms start off with fee earning? Does it mean fee earning + Basic salary or just solely based on fee earning?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well, they have a five months' bonus.

I have a friend, in house counsel, first job in marine industry about 6k / monthly