Lawyer Salary

definitely, but i highly doubt minlaw cares about how good or not good the OSU graduates are. its all a supply and demand exercise for them - one in which they seem to have screwed up badly. if they could have gotten away with spinning the lawyer shortage tale for a few more years, i wouldn't be surprised if they attempted to recognise the UOL external law degrees too! LOL

I know it may not be the best time to say this, but I would still urge all undergrads/fresh grads out there to exercise some basic selectivity when picking your practice areas and future employers.

Getting a TC and an NQL position is all fine and dandy, but it'll all be for naught if you join a crappy team and have a crappy boss, since you'll burn out, get disillusioned and leave the industry within two years anyway.

(1) Do some research about the culture/environment of the team - Find out from your peers or seniors who have interned or worked at the same firm at least - what is life like in the team you are joining? How is morale in general? Is there a decent work-life balance? I'm not encouraging laziness, but some places are absolute sweatshops where partners have no qualms about working their junior associates to the bone. Does the system propagate unhealthy politics or infighting between juniors? What is the attrition rate like?

These are difficult questions which your interviewer will never tell you, so you'll need to be resourceful and do your own due diligence. If you can secure an internship, you'll have the benefit of discovering at least a bit more about your prospective team. You won't have a complete picture, but open your eyes a little, and your two weeks there will certainly allow you to spot signs of rot and discontent - the basic warning signs of a lousy work environment.

(2) Find out about the team structure - Are you an ambitious person aiming for partnership? If so, find out how many immediate seniors you have from one to about four years above you. If there are few or none, your chances of being made up will be much better than a team with a large population of associates and new senior associates.

(3) Does the work suit you? - Internships might come in useful here. Find out what sort of work suits your character type best. Some people hate liti work as they do not like research (I plead guilty), while others thrive on the long hours and thrill of discovering and shaping the law. Others like myself enjoy structuring transactions, negotiating documents and building client relationships with banks and multinational corporations - the same guys who love liti work often find finance and corporate work dry and unrewarding.

So if you do have a decent bargaining chip, don't grab the first legal role that comes along, or it may very well be a short-lived stint and possibly your last. Be diligent and choose wisely.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know it may not be the best time to say this, but I would still urge all undergrads/fresh grads out there to exercise some basic selectivity when picking your practice areas and future employers.

Getting a TC and an NQL position is all fine and dandy, but it'll all be for naught if you join a crappy team and have a crappy boss, since you'll burn out, get disillusioned and leave the industry within two years anyway.

(1) Do some research about the culture/environment of the team - Find out from your peers or seniors who have interned or worked at the same firm at least - what is life like in the team you are joining? How is morale in general? Is there a decent work-life balance? I'm not encouraging laziness, but some places are absolute sweatshops where partners have no qualms about working their junior associates to the bone. Does the system propagate unhealthy politics or infighting between juniors? What is the attrition rate like?

These are difficult questions which your interviewer will never tell you, so you'll need to be resourceful and do your own due diligence. If you can secure an internship, you'll have the benefit of discovering at least a bit more about your prospective team. You won't have a complete picture, but open your eyes a little, and your two weeks there will certainly allow you to spot signs of rot and discontent - the basic warning signs of a lousy work environment.

(2) Find out about the team structure - Are you an ambitious person aiming for partnership? If so, find out how many immediate seniors you have from one to about four years above you. If there are few or none, your chances of being made up will be much better than a team with a large population of associates and new senior associates.

(3) Does the work suit you? - Internships might come in useful here. Find out what sort of work suits your character type best. Some people hate liti work as they do not like research (I plead guilty), while others thrive on the long hours and thrill of discovering and shaping the law. Others like myself enjoy structuring transactions, negotiating documents and building client relationships with banks and multinational corporations - the same guys who love liti work often find finance and corporate work dry and unrewarding.

So if you do have a decent bargaining chip, don't grab the first legal role that comes along, or it may very well be a short-lived stint and possibly your last. Be diligent and choose wisely.

which company do you think has bad staff morale & work life balance?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

which company do you think has bad staff morale & work life balance?

It's not exactly firm-specific. It's team-specific. Some departments have it easier than others, and even within each department, different teams have different cultures and work-life balances.

Broadly, there are two organizational structures in big4s. The "one Jedi master one Padawan" system, which involves a small team headed by a lead partner, who takes one new pupil a year. Then there's the "pool of slaves serving pool of masters" system, where a large team with several senior equity partners take several pupils a year, and have a large pool of associates to whom any partner can allocate work.

You'll need to think about which structure works for u.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

definitely, but i highly doubt minlaw cares about how good or not good the OSU graduates are. its all a supply and demand exercise for them - one in which they seem to have screwed up badly. if they could have gotten away with spinning the lawyer shortage tale for a few more years, i wouldn't be surprised if they attempted to recognise the UOL external law degrees too! LOL

it's the easiest way for them to control supply

close the door that was once shut

the other alternatives won't go down too well

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's not exactly firm-specific. It's team-specific. Some departments have it easier than others, and even within each department, different teams have different cultures and work-life balances.

Broadly, there are two organizational structures in big4s. The "one Jedi master one Padawan" system, which involves a small team headed by a lead partner, who takes one new pupil a year. Then there's the "pool of slaves serving pool of masters" system, where a large team with several senior equity partners take several pupils a year, and have a large pool of associates to whom any partner can allocate work.

You'll need to think about which structure works for u.

well the first situation seems ideal. care to give any clues?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

well the first situation seems ideal. care to give any clues?

Well... There are quite a few little oases of calm in the Big4s where associates get pretty good work life balance, and actually live like normal human beings who get off work at about 7pm every day. Amazing huh? Good life, good pay, good prospects.

But you know a secret like this once spilled in public gets spoiled forever once the hordes start swarming for these coveted positions... I'm not in a position to divulge too much too openly - let's just say that coincidentally the departments with the shortest hours also have the shortest names. And for the avoidance of doubt, I don't mean REITs.

I've heard that conveyancing in the Big4s is quite comfy too, if you're open to the idea. It may not sound too glitzy or sexy, but if you stay the course and nobody else joins the aging team because it doesn't sound glamorous, guess who gets to make partner in 7 years?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well... There are quite a few little oases of calm in the Big4s where associates get pretty good work life balance, and actually live like normal human beings who get off work at about 7pm every day. Amazing huh? Good life, good pay, good prospects.

But you know a secret like this once spilled in public gets spoiled forever once the hordes start swarming for these coveted positions... I'm not in a position to divulge too much too openly - let's just say that coincidentally the departments with the shortest hours also have the shortest names. And for the avoidance of doubt, I don't mean REITs.

I've heard that conveyancing in the Big4s is quite comfy too, if you're open to the idea. It may not sound too glitzy or sexy, but if you stay the course and nobody else joins the aging team because it doesn't sound glamorous, guess who gets to make partner in 7 years?

Sounds too good to be true. I'm gunning for litigation though. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sounds too good to be true. I'm gunning for litigation though. Thoughts?

If you succeed in joining a reputable big4 liti team, the statistical likelihood of you burning out and leaving the industry within 3 years is approximately 55-60%. I hope you'reade of sterner stuff than many of your predecessors.

[lifeistough]

AHA i think I know which dept you're talking about. THANKS!

Hows your M&A and Cap markets department though?